CRIA Faces $60 Billion Lawsuit 280
jvillain writes "The Canadian Recording Industry Association faces a lawsuit for 60 billion dollars over willful infringement. These numbers may sound outrageous, yet they are based on the same rules that led the recording industry to claim a single file sharer is liable for millions in damages. Since these exact same companies are currently in the middle of trying to force the Canadian government to bring in a DMCA for Canada, it will be interesting to see how they try to spin this."
Estoppel in America (and hopefully Canada) (Score:5, Interesting)
Will be resolved quickly...in CRIA favour (Score:5, Interesting)
This will be settled ASAP by CRIA. They simply can't risk this case coming anywhere close to a decision. If they 'win' they set a precedent that borrwing files is OK. If they lose, well, they lose big!
When they settle, they will have strong 'proof' that they 'represent the artists' and will use that to help their cause. This will be over in weeks, the actualy lawsuit is just a bargaining tactic.
Moving on...
Re:We need to get rid of the industry middle men (Score:5, Interesting)
I think the number is still low... (Score:5, Interesting)
Like GM? (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder if this will eventually turn out like GM and its dealings with the unions over the years. Bear with me...
GM corp. and shareholders spent decades working out deals with the unions, trying to minimize labor costs. They made deal after deal that would do things like promise better pensions, all to keep current costs down.
Then, when it all came crashing down, the net result was that the labor union ends up as a major (the major, after the government) shareholder in the company. All that effort goes to naught when it resulted in the "little people" gaining complete control of the company.
So I'm reminded of it here because the CRIA and RIAA and their kind have spent years creating the webs of copyright law that they now use to sue their customers. It would be fitting and just if those same laws lead to the "little people" - the artists - taking control of the industry.
Were I an artist in this case, I'd readily accept a major stake in the company in lieu of the settlement, especially if it was likely that the settlement would force them into bankruptcy and I'd never see my money anyway. Enough suits like this, and we could stroll in and fire the board and all the executives, and turn it into something that serves the artists and consumers.
Re:Irony (Score:2, Interesting)
Please, please, please let the recording industry lose and learn a goddamn lesson! But I don't have much hope for that. The same industry that bankrupts individuals over a little file sharing also lobbies and donates funds to politicians. Why do I feel that they're just gonna get a (hard) slap on the wrist for this?
Remember, this is the same Sony that rootkitted millions of PCs in the US and Canada and got off with "those who purchased an XCP CD will be paid $7.50 per purchased recording and given the opportunity to download a free album, or be able to download three additional albums from a limited list of recordings if they give up their cash incentive." That $7.50 includes being at fault for copyright infringement for including GPL code in their rootkit.
Do as I say... (Score:5, Interesting)
I predict that the CRIA will have a sudden change in heart about copyright violation enforcement - that will last as long as it takes to get this case dropped or settled. Then, it'll be back to business as usual.
The question is, where did the money for the royalties from these CDs end up?
I would like to point out: (Score:5, Interesting)
notes in his affidavit that "the record labels have devoted insufficient resources for identifying and paying the owners of musical works on the pending lists." The CRIA members now face the prospect of far greater liability.
I'm assuming that the CRIA is basically the Canadian branch of the RIAA, or at least affiliated with it?
So, let me get this straight, those people can track down some college kid over the whole internet, what was probably using some dynamically assigned IP address, who may have moved a few times, etc.. and the CRIA can't find Bruce Springstein or even some lesser known artist because they haven't allocated enough resources?
Riiiiiiigggght.
Re:Irony (Planet of the Apes) (Score:3, Interesting)
Isn't this the essential plot of Planet of the Apes (the real one, not that shoddy remake). A man, with no interest in humanity, suddenly has to defend the human race as being superior, to a religious zealot who believes that God created Ape in his own image.
Re:Will be resolved quickly...in CRIA favour (Score:4, Interesting)
IANAL but even if they manage to settle this case without divulging the amount per song paid, wouldn't an individual that gets sued by the CRIA be entitled to obtain this information through discovery?
Re:Irony (Score:5, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_estoppel [wikipedia.org]
Seeing as how it was based on common law it may trace its ancestry back to Britain and might well be relevent in Canada, seeing as it's part of the empire.
Re:justification (Score:3, Interesting)
That's why I have a broadcasting licence.
I just have to have 35% Canadian content on all mix tapes, MP3 collections, and playlists in accordance with CRTC regulations.
Re:We need to get rid of the industry middle men (Score:3, Interesting)
Just a thought:
Before downloading the album, send the band a check for $10 or so, to "do with as they see fit."
Is it still illegal to download the album? Is the burden now shifted to the musicians to pay the corporations?
Also, personally, I preordered an album on vinyl, then proceeded to download the album and have been enjoying it for the past few weeks. The thing is, I don't actually have possession, I simply paid for something that I'll get at some point in the future. Is this still wrong?
Now, what if the LP includes a download card (as many do)? Meaning that I've paid to get something I could get now, but need to wait to be able to use.
The biggest problem is that I'm a grad student, and even though I like to support my favorite artists (most are non-RIAA, but that's besides the point), I tend to download what I want, and buy what I can.
Re:Will be resolved quickly...in CRIA favour (Score:3, Interesting)
It's a class action. As long as the attorneys get a big enough chunk of the settlement, they'll accept it.
One unanswered question? (Score:2, Interesting)
CRIA? same as RIAA: they're WESU ! (Score:5, Interesting)
I had previously suggested that RIAA was just a disguise, a mask used by the Big4 companies behind RIAA, and suggested that we actually refer to them by name: Warner, EMI, Sony, and Universal. Together they form the acronym WESU, as in "We sue! Yes, we do!"
Now this CRIA organization is suing. Hmm... let's see who the big members are. From TFA:
"The defendants in the case are Warner Music Canada, EMI Music Canada, Sony BMG Music Canada, and Universal Music Canada, the four primary members of the Canadian Recording Industry Association."
Sound familiar???? Good thing we unmasked the Big4 companies as WESU!
Re:We need to get rid of the industry middle men (Score:5, Interesting)
It works that way for me. For several years now I've been buying music from artists who sell it directly, and using TPB for RIAA music. Though frankly, I seem to require less and less RIAA music as time goes by.
Re:Will be resolved quickly...in CRIA favour (Score:3, Interesting)
That's all assuming the equivalence between CRIA pirating and individuals doing it. I'm sure CRIA will argue it's not the same; they'll have some legal argument that they are "special" and simply a little slow working through their royalty backlog rather than being pirates, etc etc.
Re:We need to get rid of the industry middle men (Score:3, Interesting)
"I would like to talk about something called 'Musical Darwinism.' If you go see a band, and they suck? Don't tip. That way, they'll die and next week there'll be another band. But if you see a band that you like, Ladies and Gentlemen, give dearly." (Track 11 [archive.org])
Re:One unanswered question? (Score:4, Interesting)
If this has been going on since the late 80s, why did it take so long to file the class action lawsuit?
Because it's only been the last few years that the RIAA has been claiming an outrageuous amount of money per infringement, which makes it worthwhile to file the suit by laiming the same amount.
Re:justification (Score:3, Interesting)
The article [thestar.com] claims there were 300,000 songs infringed and the cost per infringement is $20,000. That only comes out to $6 billion. So something somewhere is incorrect. Either the math or the source numbers.
Re:Irony (Score:4, Interesting)
I suppose that technically the GG could refuse to give royal accent to the new law but in that case the government of the day could simply sack the GG and appoint someone more cooperative.
CORRECTION: $6 billion (Score:1, Interesting)
Mistake there somewhere: the correct figure is $6 billion, NOT $60 bil. See here: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4595/159/
Re:CRIA? same as RIAA: they're WESU ! (Score:4, Interesting)
CRIA is being sued... at the moment, copyright law in Canada doesn't give them anything to sue Canadians for, at least when it comes to file sharing. It's considered acceptable use under Fair Dealings. (our equivalent of Fair Use). They're trying to lobby the government to change that, of course, so that they can begin their campaign of terror against us, too.
Personally, I think a $60bn payment isn't enough. They should be fined out of existence. Sadly, I don't think it'll come to that.
Re:CRIA will never get nailed for this (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree the other choices weren't much better. Canada has produced a sad lot of political leaders in recent years. I don't like any of them particularly, and the voter isn't left with much of a choice. However, IMHO anyone has to be better than Harper. You are of course welcome to your own opinion. Personally, despite their dismal track record I think its time the NDP got a shot at things, if only to shake things up.
The Marijuana party or the Greens - not so much. Any party with specific narrow agenda is never going to be my primary choice.
The way I see it, the Liberals of many years ago switched from being Liberals to be "Conservative Light", and the current Conservatives are merely "Ultra Conservatives". We don't have a really Liberal party any more, and even the NDP are less socialist than they used to be. The whole political framework has shifted to the right in Canada.
Mind you, even the most right-wing politician in Canada is to the left of the Republicans in the US, so perhaps I should be thankful for what we have anyways.
Re:They deserve what they get (Score:1, Interesting)
The copyrights that the companies being sued are assets that would be sold during the bankruptcy proceedings, and the proceeds would be distributed to the plaintiffs. The idea of EMI or Sony declaring bankruptcy to avoid liability is silly, they clearly have more than $60B in assets.
Re:As a Canadian, ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Sir,
A finding of liability in the United States is not necessary (and often not even warranted or appropriate) to enforce judgments made by foreign Courts.
As a general rule, because the USA and Canada have such similar legal systems, and especially because of provisions in the WIPO Copyright Treaty (specifically Article 14), a judgment awarded by a Canadian Judge against a company who has assets in the United states is very likely enforceable in the United States by way of the law of comity [wikipedia.org].
In other words, a plaintiff with a judgment from a Canadian Judge that finds copyright infringement by a defendant can take that judgment (literally the paper with the Canadian Judge's signature) to a Court in the United States and ask a U.S. Judge to enforce the award against the company's U.S. assets. The U.S. Judge need not reconsider the merits of the case (though there is usually some discretion if the award conflicts with what a domestic could would have found), and in many cases wouldn't have the authority to not enforce the award.
Thus whether the judgment is a binding precedent (i.e. stare decisis [wikipedia.org]) in the U.S. is not relevant to its enforceability. If the defendants would be liable for these acts in the United States is probably not relevant to enforceability of an award - if they are liable in Canada for copyright infringement, they cannot shelter their assets in the U.S. (Nor could they shelter their assets in Canada from a U.S. judgment).
Incidentally, a binding precedent (which would typically be made by an appeal court, not the judgment of a trial court) requires all "lower" courts (or, with strict stare decisis courts the same level as the deciding court) hearing subsequent cases with the same factual and legal analysis to come to the same finding as the precedent.
Re:Irony (Score:2, Interesting)
Forget reorganization. How about banishment from Canada for the infringing companies, and expulsion for all Company board members from holding a Corporate officer, or member position in Canada. THAT might send a message to these assholes, and any who linger in this industry or any other.
Re:They deserve what they get (Score:2, Interesting)
It's Capitol records. They were eaten by EMI a while ago.
That's a shame. If Capitol were still around we could refer to all of them collectively as WESUC.
Re:Irony (Score:5, Interesting)
If we, the public start to play along in the words war called public relations and put in front of "Sony did this and Sony did that" the sentence "The decision makers within" then sooner or later there will be an environment in which people are going to check who those decision makers are.
Expose the decision making individuals within and they will be honey to the bear lawyers out there.