EU About To Grant US Unlimited Access To Banking Data 277
An anonymous reader points out a blog post reporting that on Monday The EU Council is set to give US intelligence services full access to SWIFT banking data, despite a unanimous call by the European Parliament not to do so. "The move of SWIFT the data server to Switzerland would be an excellent opportunity to stop the nearly unlimited access of US authorities on EU bank transactions. But EU justice and interior ministers are apparently keen [on agreeing to] a deal as soon as possible, on 30 November. Why 30 November? Because one day later, on 1 December 2009, the EU’s Lisbon Treaty will be in force and would allow the European Parliament to play a major role in the negotiations of the deal with the US. A deal one day before will be a slap in the face to democracy in the EU. ... [W]hile the US will be able to access EU banking data, no access to US banking data by EU [authorities] is being foreseen."
Good? (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyone still not think they're in the US Empire? (Score:4, Interesting)
The United States is so clearly the new Roman Empire that it makes it
almost cute that they keep denying it.
There is no clearer sign than this agreement that we are
officially living in a PAX AMERICANA in the 21st century.
I guess we better hope that the guy with the somewhat forced
smile is nice to us.
If the US wants to have jurisdiction over the populations of the
world though, wouldn't it be only fair ("all men are equal...")
to give citizens of the colonies (= world - China) a vote in the
US presidential election?
EU Has Finally and Completely Lost It (Score:5, Interesting)
As a US citizen, I say "WTF Europe -- are you insane?!"
I believe in the right of every country to protect their sovereignty, and this sound like a gigantic ceding of that sovereignty, and as egregious as the formation and delegation of power to the EU. The absolute best way to avoid tyranny on a massive scale is to ensure the distribution of power to the greatest extent possible. That's why I believe in states' rights, and why I believe Europe is being a bunch of asshats right now. I'm as patriotic as they come, but I understand the capability of anyone -- Americans as much as anyone else -- to become drunk with power. In the same spirit, I applaud that no American financial data will be given to Europe. At least they got it half right.
Re:EU Has Finally and Completely Lost It (Score:3, Interesting)
The EU Council of Ministers is an unelected body of the usual group of money-grabbing power-hungry and our of touch morons who do whatever you want if you've got the cash. The EU parliament (which *is* an elected body) on the other hand, has thus far been pretty good at representing the wishes of its constituents and has managed to thwart the CoM's attempts to force through some corporate-sponsored legislation against the wishes of the citizenry on several occasions.
As much as I dislike the Lisbon Treaty, one good thing to come out of it is increased power for the parliament at the expense of the CoM. The sooner they are removed from any kind of decision making the better.
Re:Prepare for 10,000 Accusations of ... (Score:2, Interesting)
what is so lacking about the EU's ability to make and investigate the above claims?
The EU lacks the information. It is not allowed to spy on its own citizens (sound familiar?). How do you get information about your own citizens in spite of privacy protection laws? You let someone else do the dirty work, deflect all the blame and get the analyzed data back. Who cares that the structure and dynamics of the entire EU economy are presented to a foreign country as a "side effect"?
don't let the door hit you on the way out (Score:1, Interesting)
It's just another case of USA forcing their laws, ideas and politics to other countries.
The US isn't forcing anything on any other nation. The US can do this because the US branch of SWIFT (a Belgian company) is operating in the US, and hence is subject to US laws.
SWIFT is free to end its US operations any time it wants to. And European governments are free to pass laws that prevent companies like SWIFT from shipping data to the US. But as long as neither of those happens, the US is within its rights to demand that the US branch of SWIFT conducts business according to US law.
Re:everyone doesn't hate Americans (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm American and I've traveled overseas quite a bit. I didn't run into a lot of hate.
I'm a euro and I spend a lot of time in the US. While staying there can be absolutely delightful on a superficial level (good food, wild nature, lots of space, polite yet informal people, clean cities), I've learned to keep my mouth shut, and just zone out whenever a discussion takes place. When asked for my opinion, I've learned to answer only in variations on 'dunno', 'uhm' and 'you're right'. When people ask where I'm from, I'll make up a word that may sound like a real place to avoid everything I do, say or think reflecting on an entire country. Anything short of blind devotion to all things American, and in fact disagreeing with an American may be taken as anti-American, ungrateful and arrogant and a reason to put you right back in your place. I don't encounter 'hate' much, but a lot of contempt. The sudden darkening of people's moods when the realization hits them 'wait a minute, this euro thinks he's an equal'.
Anyway, it can be avoided by playing the quiet type, sticking to superficial and / or work related subjects and let them blame your apparent lack of an opinion or ego on the years of communism in your native Molvania.
Weird (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm more used to Europe having the right idea about privacy, while the US (at least lately) tends to put individual rights to things like privacy in secure storage where nobody can use them, "to keep them safe for future generations."
Do panic (Score:3, Interesting)
You should panic because :
Many european national traffic is going through SWIFT. (BE, UK, FR,......)
All the details are now mandatory in any wire transfer instructions,
All operations above 10.000 EUR must be made electronically
Bottom line : US and soon EU will be equiped with data to control financial fluxes and impose new taxes. (This is the real goal !)
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:5, Interesting)
True again, but that didn't change the perceived necessity of invading those countries (*). In fact, many European nations probably objected simply because they had figured out that the US was going to invade no matter what, so opposing the invasions let them gain political points domestically, avoid paying, and still get what they wanted. The reason things worked out that way was because Bush was a moron.
(*) I think both invasions were a mistake, but the people supporting them genuninely thought it was necessary at the time.
I think you'll find the reasons that the majority of Europeans (not European nations) were against those wars was because: (A) They were illegal under international law and (B) The ensuing wars would result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of innocent civilians who never did anything to us - amongst others. Any 'nation' or government who represented the views of their citizens were in fact just doing their job properly. There were notable examples of governments giving the finger to their electorate, such as the British government of the war criminal Tony B-Liar, but as a whole, the bigger part of the population of Europe was against the unnecessary murder of millions of civilians.
To date it hasn't been shown that any of the warmongers who started these illegal wars felt they were 'necessary' for any reason. They may have said they felt it, but these are proven liars, so the balance of probability lies with the idea that their claimed feelings over the matter were merely another lie, and that's even before you consider that mere 'feelings' about how you act do not usurp the law.
To deny this obvious state of affairs is shamefully naive and the reason these b*stards keep getting away with their crimes. I mean, COME ON PEOPLE!!!
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry, but even though the initial support was different, there are a lot of similarities. The US took the lead in attacking those countries, mainly for its own benefit. The US did not have a good (if any) plan what to do after the initial "victory". Both countries are important for oil and gas reserves (Afghan pipeline). In both countries the US had a very ruthless way of handling insurgents, making sure that most of the population is now anti US. Both countries had little to nothing to do (at least directly) with what happened on 9-11 - but were blamed for it anyway.
In the mean time the situations in both countries seems worse (in most regions) than before the war. And that while the wars seriously hurt the states that have send troops, both in money and in casualties. If you imagine the state they were in before they were freed, that's quite an accomplishment. At least in Iraq there seems to be some hope for improvement. In Afghanistan the NL troops have been trying a lot of things to get support of the locals, but it seems that even they are not as welcome as one would expect. Afghanistan seems a lost cause for me, and it is hard to blame countries from wanting to retreat.
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:3, Interesting)
Too much censorship of the mass media, too much promotion of consumerism. Watching stupid shows on TV and buying the latest and greatest products is what we westerners are told will make us happy. Well, the happiest people on this planet (according to a statistic I don't remember the name of) are the Colombians. They live in a country ridden by fifty years of civil war and a significant part of the population working 15 hours a day so they can eat. And they still enjoy life more than everyone else on the planet.