EU About To Grant US Unlimited Access To Banking Data 277
An anonymous reader points out a blog post reporting that on Monday The EU Council is set to give US intelligence services full access to SWIFT banking data, despite a unanimous call by the European Parliament not to do so. "The move of SWIFT the data server to Switzerland would be an excellent opportunity to stop the nearly unlimited access of US authorities on EU bank transactions. But EU justice and interior ministers are apparently keen [on agreeing to] a deal as soon as possible, on 30 November. Why 30 November? Because one day later, on 1 December 2009, the EU’s Lisbon Treaty will be in force and would allow the European Parliament to play a major role in the negotiations of the deal with the US. A deal one day before will be a slap in the face to democracy in the EU. ... [W]hile the US will be able to access EU banking data, no access to US banking data by EU [authorities] is being foreseen."
Remember, remember... (Score:1, Insightful)
Prepare for 10,000 Accusations of ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Unexplainable transfers of cash into your account from $MUSLIM_STATE? Terrorist operative.
Bought floor tile from a man with the same surname as a well-known Taliban leader? Suspected terrorist.
etc.
I mean, I'm all for national security and sharing information but what is so lacking about the EU's ability to make and investigate the above claims?
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:4, Insightful)
Theres none good sides on it. Or why do you think US wont open their banking data back to EU?
It's just another case of USA forcing their laws, ideas and politics to other countries. Only taking, and not giving back. Fuck yeah! [youtube.com]
It is just me... (Score:5, Insightful)
About Time! (Score:2, Insightful)
The tax cheats are going to have a much harder time when the want to park their money offshore. This is really good news.
Re:About Time! (Score:5, Insightful)
So US tax cheats get caught at the expense of EU privacy? F***ing s**t deal if you live in the EU. My transactions have got cock all to do with you.
And Americans wonder why everybody hates them.
It's even worse than that (Score:5, Insightful)
They'll give access to all inter-bank transactions. The whole issue started with the revelation that US intelligence had access to SWIFT data through SWIFT's US data center. SWIFT then shifted its operation to its other data centers and will cease channeling EU transaction data through the US data center by the end of the year. So the loss of access for the US spies is the SWIFT data, but the treaty will give them access to all inter-bank transactions, even those which are not processed by SWIFT. This is a classic rebound technique: The EU cannot spy on its own citizens like that, but they do get information back from US spies.
Who's to blame? The US, for shamelessly exploiting the people they often call their friends? The EU council, for betraying their people? Why choose...
If this goes through on Monday, there will be calls to punish the EU Council for treason, but of course nothing will come of it.
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:1, Insightful)
This proves once again what a weak and undemocratic government the EU commission (not "council" btw.) really is.
Re:It's even worse than that (Score:5, Insightful)
If this goes through on Monday, there will be calls to punish the EU Council for treason, but of course nothing will come of it.
As far as I'm aware, the EU still takes more public money than any other organisation that has failed to produce audited accounts, and it's been doing so for more than a decade now. I think we can safely assume that they are above the law. And if they're not, as we've recently seen with the Lisbon treaty, they are quite capable of rewriting the law until they are, without needing any mandate from the people.
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should we HAVE to worry about The Authorities overseeing our each and every transaction, as if we're all criminals until proven otherwise??
As someone here put it, "If I've done nothing wrong, WHY ARE YOU WATCHING ME??"
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:3, Insightful)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act [wikipedia.org]
Re:About Time! (Score:3, Insightful)
You really think that's the intention? Are you so delusional that you think this is going to be used against the big tax cheats? The very same that fund the politicians that put these ideas into reality?
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it's not about doing wrong : it's about using fear as a means to control people.
Re:Anyone still not think they're in the US Empire (Score:2, Insightful)
wouldn't it be only fair ("all men are equal...")
to give citizens of the colonies (= world - China) a vote in the
US presidential election?
What good would that do? Corporations bought and paid for the US government long ago. It's all a big kabuki theater. They'll continue to get away with it too, because Americans continue to get shiny new gadgets and gizmos to keep them occupied and stupid.
Re:Remember, remember... (Score:3, Insightful)
Ironically this will be used as an anti-EU story by the very same people who let it happen by rejecting the constitution last year. If the parliament had had this power last year, this wouldn't have happened. The people who complained that EU was not democratic enough, caused the EU remain that undemocratic, and rejected the attempts to improve it. At least, things will finally improve on tuesday.
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:2, Insightful)
Hey, *we* did have our say! We said no. And then it happened anyway.
IBAN ? (Score:4, Insightful)
As all of the EU can use IBAN for European transfers, I don't see the issue. The only reason we're still stuck with SWIFT is when making a transfer to/from outside the EU anyway, which invariably means US / Canada, in which case they already have access to the data.
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:4, Insightful)
I love how Iraq and Afghanistan are the same place whenever talk about not having EU support comes up.
Re:everyone doesn't hate Americans (Score:5, Insightful)
Huge difference. I'd be happy to come over to the place where the Americans live and spend some time there - if only that place didn't happen to be America.
what makes you think anybody is denying this? (Score:2, Insightful)
The United States is so clearly the new Roman Empire that it makes it almost cute that they keep denying it.
US politicians have clearly been arguing for a unipolar world, with the US as the only superpower. So, I don't see why you think Americans are denying hegemony over the rest of the world.
However, there are two major differences between the US and the Roman Empire. First, the Europeans and Japanese aren't paying taxes to the US; in fact, the US is actually still effectively financing part of the European and Japanese economies. Second, Europeans and Japanese can rid themselves of US hegemony any time they choose by building up their own militaries and taking care of their own defense. The US not only won't object, US politicians have been asking for this repeatedly, as US tax payers and US soldiers are getting tired of paying for Europe's defense.
If the US wants to have jurisdiction over the populations of the world though, wouldn't it be only fair ("all men are equal...") to give citizens of the colonies
You'd first need to start paying US taxes and use the US Constitution as your basic law. Until you do, you don't get to vote.
But as I was saying: once Europe spends $500-1000bn of its annual budget on defense, creates a nuclear arsenal, and greatly increases its troop strength, it can rid itself of any kind of US influence. As long as Europe is spending its money on cushy social programs and letting the US handle its defense, it has to accept that the US uses its power to get its way on some issues.
Your choice.
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:4, Insightful)
Because they form the unholy alliance refusing full democratic power to the elected parliament and instead further the power of the commission (of governments).
But when the British tabloids are once again blasting 'Brussels' and it's 'unelected' bureaucrats they always forget about this little detail.
But then the rest of Europe knows who's behind these rags...
Re:They don't give a shit (Score:3, Insightful)
The EU Council doesn't give a shit about European Parliament. Seriously, Iran is probably a better democracy than the EU. Most if not all democratic elements of the EU organization do not have any real power.
People keep repeating this, but it's like saying NAFTA isn't a democracy. The EU is not a country, it's a group of independent countries that have agreed to stop protecting their internal market from each other. The EC is chosen by governments of the member countries, all of which are democracies. Ambassadors and diplomats are not elected representatives either.
Giving the European Parliament actual power and making the EU Council an actual government would amount to turning the EU into a federation, a single country. This is a concept that doesn't have popular support anywhere. It won't happen, it's ridiculous.
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course they won't. It's just that our spineless politicians take the "good relationship" with the US a bit *too* serious.
Re:everyone doesn't hate Americans (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, that's a big problem with them, the thinking that their way is the only one that can be. I travel a lot and also hang out on travel forums. The funniest I ever read there was from a fellow German living in Nicaragua. He said that the coast is overrun with American expats, who have been living there for ten or twenty years, don't know one word of Spanish and still demand that the locals speak their language. What a fucked up life that must be.
Re:Banking INternationally (Score:3, Insightful)
I assume you are a European citizen.
Meaning you voted the wrong people into your own national and by consequence our European government.
The problem is , you only get the wrong ones , no matter what you choose for , because of the party system : you choose someone , but the party ultimately decides who gets to rule.
And because the worst people are best at fighting for their place (because they only care for themselves , not the people ) , they are the ones who get the office.
Re:They don't give a shit (Score:3, Insightful)
The EU ceased being simply about an internal market the moment they gained the power to legislate. Giving the EU parliament actual power is a hell of alot better than allowing government (not parliamentary) representatives to legislate and having unanimous control over international treaties. But that is of course not nearly enough, the central EU "government" has far too much power. IMO, any decision made by the EU should be subject to veto by any national parliament along with a (required) referendum in all countries.