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Comments: 332 +- Your Rights Online: Secret UK Plan To Appoint "Pirate Finder General" on Thursday November 19, @11:22AM
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mouthbeef writes "A source very close to the UK Labour government just called me to leak the fact that Secretary of State Lord Mandelson is trying to sneak a revision into the Digital Economy Bill that would give him and his successors the power to create future copyright law without debate. Mandelson goes on to explain that he wants this so he can create private copyright militias with investigatory and enforcement powers, and so he can create new copyright punishments as he sees fit (e.g., jail time, three strikes)."
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New internet (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:New internet (Score:5, Insightful)
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You need more (Score:5, Insightful)
But you need more than new politicians. You need "your" politicians. You need more influence, and it will only change when people who profit from peer to peer are financing campaigns and getting people elected. It will only change when the political atmosphere changes. The old timer curmudgeons rule the political arena and until you put new minds not just new faces into these positions it will not change. Keep in mind that bribery/quid pro quo is how things get done and corruption is how things work.
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Re:You need more (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Aye, England's finest politician [wikipedia.org] is sorely missed.
Re:You need more (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, well, we did that in 1997 and elected Labour.
That's the problem right there, we didn't elect Labour but "New Labour" which is like labour but more Conservative so as to be sure the Tories didn't get in again.
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Re:You need more (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The UK needs a successful non-religious Guy Fawkes.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
At first I thought you meant we needed another effigy to burn, and thought that Sith Lord Mandy would probably make a good candidate.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
V?
Re:New internet (Score:5, Insightful)
What part of "successful" do you not understand?
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Re:New internet (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That would be a good thing for the people of Great Britian, but what about the people in the UK?
Re:New internet (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually I think the people of Great Britain need new governance that doesn't think that Aldous Huxley had the right idea.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:New internet (Score:5, Insightful)
Your ignorance of UK politics is amazing..
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IP log at http://www.barbrastreisand.com/?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
WTF? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
...what does the government think they're doing appointing Sith Lord Mandleson?
Has it ever occurred to you that they might know exactly what they're doing?
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Please to explain their lack of credibility.
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Informative)
[Mandelson is] an out-of-control power-crazed sociopath and should never have been allowed back into government.
We didn't allow him back in. In fact, he resigned twice already under dubious circumstances. Then he got appointed to Europe, and now he's been appointed to a very senior position in Parliament after being appointed to the House of Lords. Note that the term "appointed" here implies that the people never got a vote, he was put into those positions by the Prime Minister and his chums. Oh, and the Prime Minister was appointed as Tony Blair's successor, in direction contradiction of a Labour Party manifesto promise to voters at the last general election, which they won with such a huge majority because of funny electoral math and not popular support (having actually lost the popular vote in England to the Conservatives, in fact).
Basically, these guys don't even have a shadow of a mandate for what they're doing in the first place, but since they're already a lame duck administration they seem to feel they have little to lose by wading in with the most illiberal, draconian legislation they can shove through in the final parliamentary session before the general election. Thus we get resistance to court rulings on cleaning up the DNA database, a roll-out of trials for an expensive ID card scheme that both the major opposition parties in England have long since pledged to scrap, and now this.
My personal favourite from this week's Queen's Speech was the bill to make it a legal requirement to half the budget deficit within four years, which would conveniently mean that having destroyed our economy themselves, they could then pass a poison pill to their successors when they inevitably lose the next general election. Presumably they will then claim in four years that whoever won the election has broken the law by being unable to do the impossible, and pretend that in some alternate reality Labour would somehow have been able to fix the problems they were unable to prevent in the first place.
The various extreme anti-copyright-infringement policies flying around at the moment sound like much the same thing: having mostly ignored or actively gone against the recommendations of their own Gowers Review when it comes to IP laws, they are now setting up back channel ways to suck up to big business while they still can, knowing that if they tried to push these things through Parliament properly they would face stiff opposition (not to mention probably losing even more votes, since post-Gowers they pretty much know that people overwhelmingly oppose things like copyright term extension).
As a final note, the Open Rights Group [openrightsgroup.org] are pretty dumb if they think invoking the recent XBox cut-offs supports the case against this. I haven't seen a single report that suggests there were people cut off by Microsoft inappropriately (i.e., not after breaking the rules), the cut-off only affected their use of the XBox and not unrelated Internet services, and even the BBC carried an article based on one such person, who admitted freely that he was ripping off games illegally because it saved him money, which is exactly what the cut-off was intended to obstruct.
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If it were anyone else, I'd scoff at this "leak" (Score:5, Informative)
But this is exactly up Darth Mandelson's alley. He truly and passionately believes in the utter dominance of the State over the individual. Of course, he plans to be a most benign dictator.
For those not in the know, Lord Mandelson is the de facto ruler of the United Kingdom, and one of the chief architects of the European super state under the (also "benign") dictatorship of the unelected, unaccountable European Council of Ministers.
He is the #1 threat to individual rights and freedoms in the UK and possibly in the whole of Europe. Think Palpatine, only with fruitier ties.
Re:If it were anyone else, I'd scoff at this "leak (Score:5, Interesting)
Straw and Blunkett were amateur blunderers. They made the mistake of going through the motions of doing consultations and producing detailed legislative plans, which really hampered them.
Mandelson has spotted that instead of bothering with this tiresome "laws" nonsense, he can just churn out two or three absolutely bonkers dictats per week. The sheer volume of administrative evil makes it hard to oppose him; by the time you've mounted a defence to any of his plots, he's busy announcing the next one.
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Re:If it were anyone else, I'd scoff at this "leak (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, 'cause you Yanks can sure show 'em a thing or two with your handguns against squads of armored SWAT teams with grenades and automatic weapons, helicopter support, and the latest in anti-riot gear. Worked well at WACO. Good luck with that.
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Re:If it were anyone else, I'd scoff at this "leak (Score:4, Informative)
> all the branch davidians died in the end
Like I said.
If the goal is to win "points" as tough guys, home-made militia can get a song written about them.
If the goal is to overthrow a fascist ruling class this fails.
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Re:If it were anyone else, I'd scoff at this "leak (Score:5, Informative)
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War is being declared on UK citizens. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is the same sort of moves that were made during prohibitions and during the war on drugs. They do not care about the consequences to the economy or about the UK citizen. He only cares about the people he really works for and thats the copyright cartel. This Mandelson works for the RIAA/MPAA. He is their man, not yours. If you want this to change then your man will have to be in that position.
What he really cares about... (Score:4, Informative)
Is ensuring he has a new Mercedes S600 every year, a decent yacht, a few homes, unlimited access to private jets, and access to the best schools for his children.
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Undemocratic (Score:4, Interesting)
Which means that it's undemocratic. If nobody can control this unelected official, what's to stop them from abusing their position? In my opinion, that's a bit too much power to be given to any individual.
Would the (supposedly democratic) government be so kind to please start representing the people again already?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Except for sometimes in military affairs, it is an iron law that secrecy in Government is intended to cover up malfeasance. Like the ACTA [eff.org], if it's secret it's bad.
Re:It's the UK, what do you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but at times the House of Lords is the only thing standing between the House of Commons (the elected one) and some truly asinine, knee-jerk legislation.
By being unelected and essentially in the job for life, they don't have to worry about pandering to the populist cause of the moment and can (theoretically) take a more level-headed view on things.
Why do you think NuLabour has spent so much time and effort slowly chipping away at the Lords? They're tired of being forced to introduce less batshit insane laws...
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you know (Score:3, Insightful)
the law versus technological progress is a pretty heavily loaded contest
please study your history on the outcome of these contests
a lot of supposedly smart, but hopelessly old (not necessarily chronologically, just in terms of anyone set in their thinking) people just do NOT understand the full implications of the internet
again, for anyone who's missed it, even though hearing it for the 1,000th time isn't probably going to finally open your eyes:
the internet has effectively replaced pre-internet distribution models. copyright law consists of gentleman's agreements between major publishers from that era. you cannot extend those gentleman's agreements to random anonymous teenagers the world over. rather, random anonymous teenagers the world over will compel you to rewrite fundamental copyright law, simply because its completely unenforceable in a new technological reality
were you listening? do you get it yet? do you understand?
no?
well then onward with the fucking copyright secret police then brave soldier. whatever. fucking retarded. i guess we just need to wait for certain closed minds to just fucking die already like the ossified dinosaurs they are then. stubborn ignorant blind obstacles to progress
ten thousand lawyers, government paper pushers, and enforcement goons
versus
ten million media hungry, technologically savvy, and most importantly, POOR teenagers
figure it out
you lose, you fucking morons
Re:you know (Score:4, Insightful)
As the cost of copying dropped with modern technology, many companies that based their business on distributing copyrighted material wanted to use the reduced cost of producing copies to increase their profit, intending to use copyright law to prevent people from using the now affordable methods to produce copies for their own personal use from obtaining copies.
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So confused (Score:4, Funny)
Mandelson - Palin Cage Fight (Score:4, Insightful)
You know your government is truly in the gutter when an American begins to criticize its brazen corruption and abject stupidity. How the hell are you guys still stuck with Mandelson?
Palin wouldn't do this. (Score:3, Funny)
Palin might make you read the bible and believe in creationism, but other than that, her government wouldn't be involved in this sort of stuff.
Re:Palin wouldn't do this. (Score:5, Funny)
All I know is she couldn't be stupider than say, Reagan, or Bush
Sarah Palin accepts your challenge.
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A Tad Biased (Score:3, Insightful)
Secretary of State Peter Mandelson is planning to introduce changes to the Digital Economy Bill now under debate in Parliament.
So that's what you consider secret? I mean, it sounds bad but I probably wouldn't flip out until it's actually introduced and added to the bill. I guess I'm not an expert on UK law ... by saying "planning to introduce" do you mean it's already law? If not, I would expect parliament to be highly suspect of the introduction of something designed to give the Secretary of State such power ... when it's introduced by the Secretary of State.
This is as bad as I've ever seen, folks.
So, it's worse than ACTA [boingboing.net] (which affects the entire world)?
It's a declaration of war by the entertainment industry and their captured regulators against the principles of free speech, privacy, freedom of assembly, the presumption of innocence, and competition.
Are you aware what "declaration of war" and "captured" mean? How about swapping that out with "threat of control" and "purchased"? I mean, if it's a declaration of war then the populace should just capture their parliament as prisoners of war, right?
This proposal creates the office of Pirate-Finder General, with unlimited power to appoint militias who are above the law, who can pry into every corner of your life, who can disconnect you from your family, job, education and government, who can fine you or put you in jail.
That's it. You had a really informative post going there but that last part is a level of fear mongering I haven't seen since the United States invaded Iraq.
I heavily suspect you are being played as an unwitting rube by the party opposite of those planning to introduce this. If you had kept your post informative I'd have gobbled it up but at this point I'm dubious that another propaganda tool isn't at work somewhere along this channel.
Lame Duck Government (Score:3, Interesting)
The UK just had the Queen's speech, which was widely regarded as full of things that will never come to pass, as this government most likely has only a few months to live. Even the Queen [independent.co.uk] seemed dubious.
Can someone who is actually plugged into UK politics tell us the likelihood that this would be passed by the current lame-duck government ?
Re:Lame Duck Government (Score:4, Insightful)
You are starting from a false assumption; that the election will result in a change of government. Don't get me wrong, the Tories are certain to win - but there will be no real change in government.
Consider that The Sun, owned by News International, has publicly changed its allegiance from Labour to Tory, indicating that the Tories are now in Murdoch's pocket; given that we know well the views News International have about the Internet, do you not think the next government will continue the same anti-freedom policies and abuse the laws that Mandelson is proposing?
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No consequences. (Score:5, Insightful)
Politicians are offered incentives to fuck over human beings, but face no consequences for doing so. Now, I'm not normally one to consider people as pure incentive-following machines - but politicians aren't people in the strictest sense. They are psychopaths.
Look at Tony Blair. He lied to start an illegal war which killed probably hundreds of thousands of people. He left office when he chose to, and is now living comfortably, despite what he did. Why wouldn't a British politician simply do as they will? They know they are fucking untouchable.
I'm trying to think of sane and enlightened ways the people can deal with this situation, but the only thing running through my mind is sic semper tyrannis. They need, somehow, to fear the consequences of their actions.
Guy Fawkes (Score:4, Interesting)
That's the thing the politicans don't understand.
We celebrate Bonfire night not because he failed to blow up parliament but because he had the idea.
We're all just waiting for the next guy to come along and pull it off
Why this was leaked, and why it sounds so bad (Score:4, Insightful)
The way this government brings in unpleasant legislation follows certain patterns, and I would bet that this plan by Vold^WMandelson is going to fit the model.
What they do is come up with what the goals they want to achieve in private. They know what they come up with, no matter how "good" or "bad", it will come under attack from groups with vested interests and political opposition, and what they want will inevitably get scaled back.
So they come up with their plan, and come up with a version 3 times worse than they want. They leak the extra bad idea to the press (or to a blog this time), and the press and internet go nuts in reaction to the plan. But the politicians can hide behind the fact it was leaked and deny that is their plan at all.
The vitriol generated tells them which parts of the plan will not fly, and which they can deal with with some spin. They announce their revised plan (now at 2x what they want), roll things back a bit (to 1 times) as a token lip service to democracy, and then go on to implement what they wanted in the first place.
We've seen it before, and we'll see it again: this system works for getting unpopular legislation on the books.
Re:Great Idea (Score:4, Funny)
Considering the proud history of the British navy, it would make sense of them to appoint a person in charge of finding pirates on the high seas. I don't see how this is relevant to Slashdot, though. Nor do I see why they should keep such a role secret. Keeping our oceans save is a noble job.
If pirates and piracy is measurably affecting ocean travel and commerce, someone should get on doing something about it. If not, then this ocean pirate hunter idea seems kind of pointless.
I'm sure they have reliable data from the people who use the oceans which affirm that ocean piracy is a big issue.
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Re:Great Idea (Score:5, Informative)
FWIW, a lot of the proud history of the British navy is due to their support for pirates. Privateers were a sizable portion of the British navy that sunk the Spanish Armada (of course, a timely storm helped a lot with that one). They were also a very important tool in the economic war with Spain that QE I was waging. I read a very good biography of Drake that goes into detail... suffice it to say the Crown fully supported piracy, as long as it wasn't targeted at British vessels. So much so that QE I entertained Drake as a suitor to ensure his support of Her.
There's some kind of analogy here... if the high seas, as a chief method of commerce of the time, can be equated to the internet, as a chief method of commerce in our time... then perhaps Brtain should consider sponsoring these pirates instead, and riding their coattails to a new era of economic dominance? And maybe Dark Lord Mandy should consider dating one of the pirates?
OK, it's a bad analogy. But I haven't seen Bad Analogy Guy in a while, so I'm doing my best to fill in.
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Re:I don't think they really care.... (Score:5, Informative)
face recognition following their every move...
We don't have face recognition in public CCTV systems, I don't know where you pulled that one from. I agree we have massive surveillance problems here in the UK, but we don't need to make things up to make it sound worse. It's bad enough already
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Analogue pirates (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Analogue pirates (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Yeah, and you were expecting what? (Score:4, Insightful)
The answer is not to ignore the judiciary, penalise innocent people and throw away the principles embodied in the Magna Carta.
The answer is to encourage copyright holders to leverage the reduced distribution costs and easier access to their markets, and to reduce copyright terms to something that benefits society.
If Mandelson is still in power in June I'm going to end up getting arrested :(
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