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Comments: 120 +- Your Rights Online: Senate To Air Findings In Web "Mystery Charge" Probe on Tuesday November 17, @08:08AM
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kdawson
on Tuesday November 17, @08:08AM
from the just-your-email-is-all-we-want-where's-the-harm dept.
from the just-your-email-is-all-we-want-where's-the-harm dept.
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government
CNet reports on hearings scheduled to open tomorrow in the US Senate on mysterious charges on thousands of consumers' credit cards. The Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation has been investigating online loyalty programs, which shoppers encounter (often with little comprehension) on the sites of online retailers such as as Continental Airlines, FTD, and Classmates.com. "At the center of the federal probe are Webloyalty, Affinion, and Vertrue, companies that make 'cash-back' and coupon offers to consumers and charge them monthly fees to enroll in their loyalty programs. ... In August, as the government's investigation rolled on, Webloyalty announced that it would alter its ads to require that consumers 'enter the last four digits of their credit or debit card to confirm' they wish to pay the membership fees. Last week, Affinion made similar changes. During the hearing, when the Senate committee is expected to make public the results of a six-month investigation, it will also likely say the alterations made by Webloyalty and Affinion don't go far enough. "
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It's a mystery (Score:2, Funny)
Re:It's a mystery (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
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CNET can't spell (Score:2)
Parent doesn't make any sense (Score:2)
It would alter "it's" adds?!
It should use the preview button.
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But what does it all add up to?
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There are just certain aspects of the language that tend to screw us up, no matter how much we study the language.
Pfff. Speak for you're self, mortal.
Could be fixed with a simple law. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not sure that would benefit consumers greatly, since many are having a hard time already filling out forms when purchasing stuff. Also, the more forms there are, the more points of exploitation there will be as well.
Perhaps merchants should be forced to inform by email or preferably by snail mail when and why they share information, much like is done when companies ask for a credit report on you (at least where I live).
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I cannot think of any case where I want any company to give away my credit card information. I think most people assume this is illegal already. This is why virtual account numbers are such a good idea - it compensates for an inherently flawed system.
Re:Could be fixed with a simple law. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
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I'm also tired of hearing how hard it is to fill out an online form to buy something. It's a very quick process. If it's too hard maybe they should stick to brink and mortar stores.
There is no good reason for a store to give out your credit card info to someone else EVER (except to the credit card processor).
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Why? It's perfect.
Having to enter the card number a second time would make people suspicious. I'd probably stop right there. In any case it's a considerable hassle, so I'd shop somewhere else.
It'd have the very nice side effect of killing such programs, due to having one being probably a loss instead of a profit.
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Oh, the more forms there are, the more likely the customer won't make the purchase. Which encourages the sellers to limit the number of forms, which connected with this kind of laws would simply make them give up such shady practices whatsoever.
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How about a law saying they can't divulge ANY information? Why should they be allowed to in the first place?
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There is no such law? ...scary...
So what is there to stop a gas station owner in backwater Kentucky to publish my CC number online?
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Re:Could be fixed with a simple law. (Score:5, Informative)
GP doesn't know what he's talking about.
Firstly:
Both VISA and MC do not allow 'Cross Sales' between different merchants - that is, passing your CC to another merchant.
Now, these rules exist, but are not enforced, typically unless a merchant is abusing them [IE, selling the data, passing it on without disclosure, etc]
About 3 months ago MC came down hard, and started enforcing its rule, due to a large amount of abuse (probably relating to this incident)
Visa is also currently in talks of shutting down / rolling up abusive merchants - they met in Europe about it about 8 days ago.
Secondly:
To hold, store, re-use or transfer CC information, in theory you have to be PCI compliant, which is a fairly stringent process that ensures everything is encrypted, etc, CVV data isn't held [or if it is, you need a higher level of compliance] - security of the networks, machines, sites, etc are all tested.
Now that doesn't stop your gas station owner (or anyone that doesn't care about CC rules) from taking a copy of the info - but outside of that, this is very strictly controlled.
Parent
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There is no such law? ...scary...
So what is there to stop a gas station owner in backwater Kentucky to publish my CC number online?
He would need internet access and a computer first.
Joking! Full disclosure: I'm living in KY
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That's incredibly shortsighted given that merchants already forward the information to processing companies, simply to validate and see if the charge will go through.
How about we simply disallow deceptive advertising? That would fix this and a host of other bullshit besides.
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How about we simply disallow deceptive advertising? That would fix this and a host of other bullshit besides.
That's brilliant! In addition to outlawing it, of course we also need to be able to enforce those rules. So that means that we should set up a federal body, or maybe a commission, that could regulate false and deceptive practices in commerce and trade. Sort of like a Federal Trade Commission, if you will.
Perhaps we could implore President Wilson to consider this in his crusade against the trusts!
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Customer Loyalty? (Score:3, Interesting)
A couple years ago I went to a local movie theater and the box office line was too long so I chose to buy tickets from the computer kiosk. After choosing the showtime and sliding my credit card, a screen popped up saying:
Customer Loyalty?
YES | NO
Uh, no? I thought it was asking me if I was enrolled in some discount program I had never heard about. I answered honestly (or figured that if I lied then it'd ask for an ID number I didn't have). But I could see how Web sites might ask a similar question and fool customers into buying something when they had a reasonable expectation of getting something free.
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Actually, these companies didn't even ask the vendors for it. In the beginning of this whole debacle the shop you buy from used a piece of software that handled the credit card transactions (as they should) similar to the PayPal gateway.
However, the unscrupulous owners of that gateway forwarded the credit card details to shops like WebLoyalty which would start charging you $10/month while they got a kickback. That's when they charged me $10. After enough people complained about it to VISA and the like (I fo
Happened to me (Score:5, Informative)
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That "smart" scammers have moved to the more unregulated world of cell phone charges. I got a text message from "Gamer data [complaintsboard.com]" about some cheat codes out of the blue one day and a 9.95 monthly service charge. AT&T was borderline unhelpful in removing it until I started yelling, I wonder what percentage of that 9.95 they pocket?
The FTC needs to crack down on Gamer Data and the rest and we need regulations that require some kind of authorization for these charges, like an AT&T rep or robot voice callin
Scam needs ALL parties brought to justice (Score:2)
They talked about this one this morning on the Today show. They said that the vendors for the website you are visiting are actually giving your credit card numbers to these 3rd parties, so when you sign up, you don't actually give them your credit card number. They instead get it from the parent site, who happily hands it over for a cut of the profits.
I have to wonder why the parent website isn't being hauled into court for giving away your credit card number? The 'authorization' given is extremely vague. Y
Affinion == Scammers (Score:3, Informative)
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As much as I'm tempted to say people should know better, I hate to see a scammer profit more than I hate to see people be stupid.
american business sense. 'hands off business' (Score:2)
why ? becauuuuuseee, you will cost americans jobs !!!
this is what happens instead.
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That's right, this is the American system of laissez-faire commerce at work.
As you know, laissez-faire is an American term that means "a whale's vagina". At least, that's what Ron Burgundy told me.
Happened to me too (Score:2)
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At this rate i bet bernanke was secretly a really good fed chairman...we just havent realized it yet.
Indeed. Unbeknownst to the general public Bernanke managed to repeatedly dissuade our alien Lizardfolk overlords from adding more secret taxes to your online transactions. In truth he is one of humanity's greatest heroes!
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Wait, what? You mean, we can spend some of the money we didn't spend on the bailout to reduce the debt instead of keeping it around for an emergency? That's crazy talk.
Re:Credit cards.. (Score:5, Insightful)
So you don't do online shopping of any kind? Brilliant. Enjoy paying 20% more for everything.
Of course, you could get a card which you pay off in full every month, and make sure not to sign up for suspicious looking reward programs, but that would require self-control and common sense. If you check your statements occasionally, you can note and contest suspicious charges; the time spent checking is less than the time spent fiddling with cash over the course of a month.
Parent
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Of course, you could get a card which you pay off in full every month, and make sure not to sign up for suspicious looking reward programs, but that would require self-control and common sense.
Where I live, that's considered normal behavior. I don't think anyone I know carries credit card debt from one month to another - it's always paid on time and in full. Maybe I just don't know any morons...
The credit card company is already earning a percentage from the merchant. They should not need to make usurious escalating loans to consumers to get an adequate income. So why enrich them further by impoverishing yourself?
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[voice-of-90%-of-Britons]Because it is 'free' money and I can buy stuff I wouldn't otherwise be able to afford[/voice-of-90%-of-Britons]
I agree, it seems completely stupid. The only reason I have a credit card is for the extra protection when buying online versus a debit card, and so that any expenses I incur on company business get paid to me before I pay them to the credit card company! If you can't afford it then you can't afford it, so why make yourself pay more than is necessary for non-essential items
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Because in America, credit cards are just about the only way to build up a good credit score. Without a good credit score, you end up paying much more for big purchases (if you have to take out a mortgage for them, which is usually the case).
I would be totally fine just using my debit card all the time - except that does nothing for my credit score, which means I have to use a credit card if I ever want to do anything outrageous like buy a house.
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To order online, you need a credit card number - but not really a credit card in the common sense. There are prepaid cards, virtual account numbers, credit card numbers that draw from checking, savings, IRAs, CDs, etc. The credit card number has become the ubiquitous standard for transferring money.
I use a virtual card. (Score:3, Interesting)
I use a virtual card. It requires me to generate a CVV2 code every time I make a new batch of purchases - the code is valid only for several hours after generating it.This makes storing it or passing to others useless. Also, I "charge" the subaccount bound to the card with the amount I want to pay, so they can't withdraw more than I consent to.
As for repeating purchases like monthly fees, either I watch for it myself, or use other methods, like bank transfer order. As a general rule, I don't allow anyone ev
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Seriously, how can anyone on slashdot _not_ do this?
It's such a simple way to prevent these problems. My credit card companies let me set dollar limits and time limits on these virtual cards. You get to worry much less about fraud, as well as companies billing you when you no longer want them to.
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Yes. So far only on my Debit Card with HSBC, but I would figure it would work the same with a Credit Card. In my case, I've called up the 800 number, navigated to dispute a charge or operator help or whatever it was. I talked to them, got a call back the next day from security. Talked to that rep for about 5 minutes explaining exactly what happened. The money was credited back to my checking account then. In about a week I got a letter in the mail saying HSBC had closed the dispute and the money was mine.
Ea
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What exactly are you calling "marketing"? What I'm reading about here has another name: fraud. And that print you say isn't fine? Yes, it is. It's pretty easy to see that the intent is to confuse and trick people into saying yes to something rather different than what they thought they were agreeing to. The agreements could have been much simpler and shorter, but were purposely drawn out in order to generate more opportunity for the seller to slip things in. And arguably the intent of the entire prog
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Indeed.
I get sick of the people who think it's the right of businesses who operate however they want.
Corporations exist because the government lets them exist. They're supposed to have some sort of purpose that actual benefits society.
Accepting X dollars of money from people, and giving out X/100 dollars back to people who actually comply with their 'rewards' and submit everything, is not, in any way, shape, or form, benefiting society. They are providing absolutely no goods or service whatsoever.
Indivi