Scientists Decry "Horrifying" UK Border Test Plan

cremeglace writes "Scientists are dismayed and outraged at a new project by the UK border agency to test DNA, hair, and nails to determine the nationality of asylum seekers and help decide if they can enter the UK. 'Horrifying,' 'naive,' and 'flawed' are among the words geneticists and isotope specialists have used to describe the 'Human Provenance pilot project.' The methods being used to determine ancestry include fingerprinting of mitochondrial DNA and isotope analysis of hair and nails. ScienceInsider blog notes that it is 'not clear who is conducting the DNA and isotope analyses for the Border Agency,' and that the agency has not 'cited any scientific papers that validate its DNA and isotope methods.' There is also a followup post with more information on the tests that are being used, and some reactions from experts in genetic forensic analysis. This story was first reported in The Observer on Sunday."

Re:The problem

[draco664]

There are generational requirements for entry on long-term visas into the UK. As an Australian whose grandmother was born in the UK, I can get an ancestry visa, which would give me the right to live in the UK for 5 years. My mother could get permanent right-of-abode. My children will only be able to get holiday visas.

Re:The problem

[bradley13]

I think you are misunderstanding the problem. I live in Europe, and see the streams of "refugees" coming in. The problem is this: someone shows up on your border, with no papers or documentation of any kind, and says "Help me! I need refuge!". You ask them why. They say "I am from country XXX, it is terrible there". Did they truly flee from some horrible fate? Possible. It is also possible that they are from somewhere else entirely, and just looking for any way to get into the land of milk and honey. Where - having few useful skills and less education - they will probably spend the rest of their lives living on welfare. Right now, the main technique is a series of interviews. What language do they speak? This requires access to a huge supply of interpreters. Then you ask them general knowledge questions, like "what's the name of your capital ciety". All of this is time-consuming, expensive and extremely error-prone. If they speak some European language, they may be able to avoid using their native language. They may have been prepped with general information. Or they may be genuine refugees with no education and hence may really not know the name of the capital city. It is no wonder at all that governments are looking for additional ways to check identity. Such a test could never be definitive, but it would be one more piece of evidence. You can also see this in a positive light: assuming that the tests are halfway reliable, if they show the person really is from war-torn Elbonia, you can short-circuit the whole frustrating interview and testing process.

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Re:PR

[Chrisq]

to many simple minds - is the equivalent of "dirty foreigner" even if they are 3rd generation Brits...

True enough. My wife is American and to her surprise one of the neighbours tried to "recruit" her into the BNP complaining about some "foreigners" who had moved into the road.

She (bravely in my opinion) pointed out that she was the foreigner, having a US passport and not being a UK citizen, whereas the people who had moved into the road were born British. The racist neighbour litterally did not get it and said "yes but they are the foreign ones really", obviously equating nationality with skin colour even though it contradicted the facts.

Re:PR

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't care what England and London are like then you should leave.

Personally I value our culture and don't want it diluted with alien and often enemy cultures.

If you like Indian, or Muslim or Chinese or African (surely a contradiction in terms) culture you know that there are great examples outside of the UK: don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Re:What is this hoping to achieve

[Rogerborg]

What is this hoping to achieve

I'll type this very slowly to make it easier to understand.

It's. Not. About. British. Racial. Purity. Not all societies are as heterogeneous. This is not a test for "British" ancestry. We're a nation of bastards. Geneticists understand this.

This is a test so that when some dark avised Johnny Foreigner gets scraped off the bottom of a lorry and claims to be a political refugee from Outer Warzoneistan, the border gestapo can test them and say "Funny - you seem to be of Inner Spongistanian ancestry. Want to change your story?"

M'kay?

Re:The problem

[CountBrass]

The vast majority of immigrants are *not* highly skilled. Stop all migrants and the UK would nett gain.

They come here, rather than stopping in France, for example, on the way is because we have a stupidly generous benefits systems where not only do we pay legal migrants of no worth we even pay illiegal immigrants and those appealing decisions to extradite them!

Re:Emigration is a Privilege, not a Right

[Anonymous Coward]

It actually needs MORE immigrants as it is loosing population due to low birth rates and an aging population.

Are you sure [statistics.gov.uk] about [guardian.co.uk] that [sky.com]?

Also, stating that the UK is quite racist is generalising more than a little bit. There are a few idiots in every country, but claiming that the entire nation is racist is more than a bit hypocritical.

Immigrants don't want to be supported.

[jotaeleemeese]

It is the UK government, scared shitless by the right wing press, who refuse permission to work to people that are requesting to stay in the UK.

Asylum seekers have said in many instances that they would be happy to earn their own sustenance while their case is reviewed and adjudicated. If they are a burden (minimally small one btw) it is not a situation of their choosing.

Don't blame economic migrants and asylum seekers for the ineptitude of the UK authorities, the UK should have a fair and expedite system to deal with asylum claimants and a clear program to deal with illegal immigrants (which BTW are not the same group of people, the UK has international legal obligations regarding asylum seekers, it is irrelevant if asylum seekers don't apply for asylum in other countries through which their transit, if the UK was more engaged with the EU then perhaps an EU wide agreement about sharing the burden of receiving asylum seekers could be agreed, but again, it is not the fault of migrants if the UK can't make up their bloody mind regarding the relationship with the rest of Europe).