Newly Declassified FBI Docs Reveal Predictive Data System 185
An anonymous reader writes 'Newly declassified documents show that the FBI is developing a data-mining system to uncover terror sleeper cells. Among the 1.6 billion records in the National Security Analysis Center — tens of thousands of travel records, including hotel and airline records. Other revelations in the documents uncovered by a Wired.com FOIA request show that the feds want to expand the system for use in cyber-crime investigations, and it's already been used to scrutinize helicopter pilots and Philly cab drivers. The system has eerie resemblances to DARPA's once-banned Total Information Awareness program."
I've got an idea (Score:5, Insightful)
How about a data mining application to scour through political speeches and legislative records to identify politicians most- and least-likely to support such a scheme?
Give up? (Score:1, Insightful)
You know what, after all these years in IT, I say... give 'em as much data as they want. They'll choke and drown on it. The FBI is the most massively disorganized organization in the US Government. I would not worry about your privacy... they have trouble figuring out how to dress themselves in the morning.
Wow, What a Shock... (Score:3, Insightful)
You didn't really think TIA was going away, did you?
Re:Give up? (Score:3, Insightful)
I know eh? Us guys in IT, we have to handle alot. All those log files, so little time to sift through them all. How do you find the problem? I mean if only there was a program to help us sort through it --
Oh hey, whats this ad for? Splunk?
Could that handle Travel, hotel, and airline records that the FBI have been gathering?
This just in . . . (Score:3, Insightful)
The federal government (especially those under the executive branch) will do whatever the hell they please, and scandals only force them to whitewash and restart unpopular programs under different names. /rant
Ssssssh! ACORN is giving tax advice to pimps! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Give up? (Score:5, Insightful)
they don't need to be omniscient to be a threat to the public. all they need to do is be able to go after enough people to make the public think twice about challenging them.
Re:Give up? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I've got an idea (Score:5, Insightful)
It wouldn't work. When have you heard about a political speech and reality having any connection?
Re:Give up? (Score:5, Insightful)
Look up how Bayes' Theorem relates to random drug testing, for example. You will easily see how such systems are prone to false positives. And in a case like this -- where many magnitudes more people are innocent than guilty -- it gets that much worse. You will end up prosecuting (and possibly punishing) hundreds or thousands of innocent people for every guilty party you find.
NOT GOOD.
Re:Give up? (Score:5, Insightful)
The public challenging them isn't the problem. It's the guys after their 72 virgins and THEY ARE NOT "THE PUBLIC".
Making the public think twice does nothing but make our lives more of a hassle. Making the guys seeking an express check in to paradise think twice doesn't do much good either. They are planning to die, and that's if the operation is successful. Taking one for the sleeper cell and getting caught just means the guys in the next cell will be getting first choice in the afterlife.
Eventually terrorists won't have to actually do anything. They come up with a zany and half-baked plan, get caught, cause everyone to overreact and then they've caused more damage then if they actually did manage to blow something up.
Re:I've got an idea (Score:3, Insightful)
How about a data mining application to scour through political speeches and legislative records to identify politicians most- and least-likely to support such a scheme?
You'll have faster I/O if you focus on searching for the ones that aren't likely.
Re:Give up? (Score:5, Insightful)
But then they'll be successful in their primary objective, which is self-perpetuation and a larger budget next year.
Re:so ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sadly, we are never going to know the answers.
I am sure there has been at least one nearly successful action in the US since 2001 that is utterly classified because it would tend to cause a panic - or a violent attack on people of a certain religious faith. So we aren't going to be informed, probably for the better.
All we are going to hear about is a few misguided individuals that had maybe a 5% chance of pulling something off, if they were really lucky. And the American population just goes on thinking that (a) all this terrorist stuff is way overblown, and (b) our government is doing a really good job. Of course, neither of these is all that true.
I suspect if the truth came out about one or maybe even two close calls people would utterly freak out. So in this case, secrecy protects us all.
Re:Deeper Questions (Score:3, Insightful)
Target, Citibank, and Visa don't have the power to put me in prison for one....
Re:Deeper Questions (Score:4, Insightful)
Target, Citibank, and Visa won't lock you up in GITMO, bar your right of Habeas corpus, and let you rot for a decade because you went to Anarchy.com. But they will offer you 10% off of your next Molotov Cocktail purchase of more than $100!
-Rick
Re:Give up? (Score:3, Insightful)
They come up with a zany and half-baked plan, get caught, cause everyone to overreact and then they've caused more damage then if they actually did manage to blow something up.
Seems to be the way it works now....
Re:I've got an idea (Score:5, Insightful)
I get what you are saying but your examples are only true in narrow contexts.
Ds want you to have the freedom to make lots of choices they approve of, just like Rs. (they just approve of different things)
Ds fully approve of their freedom to make money off the public, just like Rs.
You have to translate based on who is saying it and what (s)he is talking about.
Re:Give up? (Score:5, Insightful)
they can if they are the only ones with defensive weapons.
Re:Wow, What a Shock... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, I'm thinking this isn't such a bad thing. When you have agencies competing like that it seems likely that they're also going to be keeping an eye on the other agencies, keeping them more honest in the process. When they all start cooperating I think I'll feel less safe, as a matter of fact.
It's the same with the political parties. Just the right amount of non-cooperation and competitiveness keeps one organization from becoming the oligarchy it naturally wants to become.
Re:Give up? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:so ? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am sure there has been at least one nearly successful action in the US since 2001 that is utterly classified because it would tend to cause a panic - or a violent attack on people of a certain religious faith. So we aren't going to be informed, probably for the better.
This is using Pascal's Wager as an argument to continue black budget funding. There have been several thwarted attacks like the liquid bomb plot in the UK, and these haven't been causing full blown panic. Do you think there will ever be another shoebomber, or did the very public incapacitation of John Walker Lindh by concerned, untrained passengers suddenly furnish a very real deterrent on any future flight?
I think that sunlight is the best disinfectant in this case. by showing the true nature of domestic attacks or terrorist actions, we can clearly demonstrate who is operating on the side of truth and humanity. It is best to lead by example, not cloaking everything under secrecy and privilege. If the real information is not available anywhere and we are just told to "obey authority", that's not so much secrecy as it's forcefeeding denial. Tell us what the real problems are, not to buy lots of duct tape and pray.
Re:so ? (Score:2, Insightful)
So in this case, secrecy protects us all.
That same argument is also used to cover up an enormous amount of scary, incompetent, and/or fraudulent behavior by security agencies. From my experience in the government surveillance R&D business, when someone says 'If you knew what I knew, you would support program X', its very often bullshit.
Of course much of what is secret does need to be secret. But often the main effect of secrecy is a lack of accountability. Personally I think we would be better off overall if we opened most of it up.
People get all offended when someone suggests that the US government is a greater danger than terrorists, since the US government is relatively civilized, and terrorists do want to kill us. But we are so much more powerful than the terrorists are that I think it is us that's the greater threat. Personally, taking a long view, I'd rather risk losing a city to a terrorist nuke than risk a Stalinist catastrophe.
Re:so ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, taking a long view, I'd rather risk losing a city to a terrorist nuke than risk a Stalinist catastrophe.
I absolutely agree. However, it's worth recognizing that if a US city got nuked, it'd make a Stalinist catastrophe far more likely as panicked citizens would almost be begging government to take away their rights and exploit them.
Re:so ? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am sure there has been at least one nearly successful action in the US since 2001 that is utterly classified because it would tend to cause a panic - or a violent attack on people of a certain religious faith.
Which religion? Democrats or Republicans? More seriously, I've heard this kind of argument before. If government actually had stopped a nearly successful action in the US, they'd advertise it 24/7 *unless* it reveals relevant government agencies as acting entirely incompetent in the case.
Re:Conspiracy Theory Anyone? (Score:5, Insightful)
The real shadowy agencies are much smarter than that. If someone finds a bit of the truth, they don't chase him down (which would tend to give him credibility), they leak that truth along with a bunch of obviously bogus and silly information just to discredit him.
Not posting anonymously because They will know who I am anyway.
Re:I've got an idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow, what an ignorant statement. Slashdot frequently posts articles from countries where they don't speak English. Zensursula, HADOPI, Piratpartiet are just three examples at the top of my head.
People post stuff in their native tongue all the time on Slashdot, and have complained about the broken Unicode support for ages.
Slashdot sees itself as a major internet publication, but still lives in a 7-bit world. What is this, 1985?
Re:I've got an idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Forget political speeches... how about campaign contributions [followthemoney.org] and votes?
Re:Give up? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Deeper Questions (Score:4, Insightful)