Japan's Cell Phones May Get DRM, At Music Industry Behest 189
An anonymous reader writes "The Japanese Music Industry is currently in talks with Japanese cell phone providers to introduce a new anti-piracy system in all cell phones in Japan. This new system would make DRM software mandatory in all cell phones; this would connect to a DRM server on the Internet whenever the cell phone user would try to play a song. The song would only play if the response of the server would be positive. Otherwise no song would be played. The system raises several questions and concerns that the Financial Times article did not address. These include ripped legally bought music and music that has been released under a CC license or similar. Who would pay for the costs of the DRM checks, and what would happen if no connection could be established?"
user would pay for all costs (Score:5, Insightful)
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didn't get to read the article because it requires a fucking registration and I'm unwilling to register just to read this tripe
PrefBar [mozdev.org] allows you to change your user-agent, you may be able to use it to impersonate a GoogleBot (they seem to be indexed by google so it's worth a shot). I can't test it just now as I have 58 tabs open and some of them have large flash videos loaded, but this may be just the thing to facilitate your tripe-viewing in future. :)
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I use user-agent-switcher, never heard of prefbar, anyway your crack (well not yours, its pretty well known) worked flawlessly. it isnt even necessary to hide cookies. a simple Googlebot 2.1 worked for me.
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This also works on experts exchange, and any other site that wishes to have its paid content indexed-- if they present you something different than the googlebot sees (through javascript tricks) despite having the same referrer, google will delist them. Its part of their ToS.
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Now if you want to make a billion dollars, invent a bluetooth-activated dildo that fires up on every incoming call. It will certainly contribute to shorter calls so you can get the next one.
Ironically I am pretty sure this was on the screen savers/attack of the show (it was right around when they switched shows) at one point.... Pretty sure it detected the RF from the cell phone though.
Yet Another Sky Is Falling (Score:5, Insightful)
Defective by design, as usual. I'm sure firmware hacks/mods will be created if this were to be implemented on a wide scale. No worries, really.
Re:Yet Another Sky Is Falling (Score:5, Insightful)
No, not really, most people don't want to deal with hacking their phone... but then again most people with music on thier phone in Japan bought it over-the-air anyway, since the interface to the computer isn't usually all that convenient and most people don't have computers.
On the other hand, and people with computers and/or a lot of music probably already have iPods (or similar), so they won't much care.
As far as passing costs onto consumers, sure, they can raise the prices, but demand will fall, meaning it will cost the phone companies.. which gives them an incentive to resist it.
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At first I thought, "No, wait, maybe he's talking about computer ownership in Japan..." but I see that's not statistically different from US/Aus either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users [wikipedia.org] (there's no direct computer ownership listing)
On a side note, there are certainly several countries where many people who have access to computers and the net don't have their OWN computers; making use of large 'net cafe' industries instead - Brazil, Portugal and the Phillipines, for
Re:Yet Another Sky Is Falling (Score:4, Interesting)
I live in Portugal and never heard of a "large "net cafe" industry around here. Most people access net from home, school or the office.
He's probably thinking as a tourist. All tourist places tend to have plenty of net cafes. Not to cater for locals, but to cater for the tourists.
When I last visited a tourist trap in Portugal, there was plenty of net cafes there, but they are probably very rare outside the tourist areas.
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Same over here, but they're mostly full of young guys playing LAN games (counterstrike, left4dead, TF2, call of duty, etc), or other online games - MMORPGs, DoTA etc.
I suspect many of them have their own computers at home, they just come to play games with their friends or others. After all I do know a number of teenagers and youth who play games at cybercafes and they _all_ have PCs at home.
Many people who have TVs and DVD players at home als
Re:Yet Another Sky Is Falling (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, for most of the 1990s/early 2000s, personal computers took a distant second to mobile phones/PDAs in Japan for personal internet access. The degree of dominance changed while I was living there, but as late as 2007, most people people were still using their mobiles/cells for SMS/text messaging, email, and searching for information. It was just a very different set of expectations about what form data needed to be in to move to/from individuals.
Most net cafes in Japan evolved from "manga-kissa": cafes where people could get a drink and read magazines in a semi-secluded booth for a bit. Rather than a single room with 15-40 PCs wedged into it, net cafes in larger cities in Japan have evolved into places where a person can rent a little bit of privacy with added amenities. It's not uncommon for people to pay JPY1500 for a package that allows them to stay from 11PM to 6AM in a cubicle with access to magazines, comics, PS2/3 games, DVDs, a net-connected PC, reclining office chair, and access to a shower. But for a lot of people the net access is far less important than the chance to sit down in a little bit of privacy, and maybe get cleaned up before they go back to the outside world.
Aaaaaanyway, the point is that different people have different expectations of how tech and data should be presented, interacted with and controlled.
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Good Lord! (Score:5, Insightful)
the skillz market for hacking phones just went up again. when will these music industries/RIAJ/RIAA/etc ever learn from Amazon/Ebay/etc? Its all about customer experience. This may be the same reason why top100 music generally licks balls.
my 2 cents.
Re:Good Lord! (Score:5, Insightful)
the skillz market for hacking phones just went up again. when will these music industries/RIAJ/RIAA/etc ever learn from Amazon/Ebay/etc? Its all about customer experience. This may be the same reason why top100 music generally licks balls.
Ebay and Customer service in the same paragraph? Incorrect..
Ebay and generally licks balls in the same paragraph? Correct.
Re:Good Lord! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Good Lord! (Score:4, Insightful)
That or Slashdot articles are an echo chamber of similarly minded individuals and people read, comment, and moderate articles that inflame them.
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when will these music industries/RIAJ/RIAA/etc ever learn from Amazon/Ebay/etc
Reminds me of the French automobile in Bruce McCall's "Zany Afternoons" that was "so exclusive that none will be built!".
I have no problem resisting the urge to buy merchandise from companies that treat me as an adversary.
The blowback from this wouldn't be good... (Score:4, Insightful)
If the DRM system checks all songs against a server, regardless of origin, people will just end up using previous generation phones, or paying for a third party for a custom flash ROM to bypass this.
If the DRM system only checks flagged songs, I'm sure another black market will pop up allowing songs to be downloaded from somewhere, likely offshore.
Either way, Japan's analog of the RIAA loses long term for gains made in the short term. One can watch the lessons of DRM in the US, from the SDMI specs to FairPlay, to Apple just chucking DRM altogether to see what potholes are in store.
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I suspect the Japanese won't protest.
They have a culture that is strange from the Amero-European viewpoint - the individual is expected to subsume his desires for the greater benefit of society. In other words, you are expected to put-up with the inconvenience of not being able to play CD-to-MP3 rips on your phone, because it benefits the artists, businessmen, and society overall.
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Your not kidding. When I was over there I wanted to buy a Japanese music CD just for the hell of it, but when I can buy a freaking BLU RAY MOVIE for less over here in Canada... it was quite shocking.
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Um... yes I know. My point is that the Japanese will wake-up one morning and discover their Ripped MP3s no longer work, but they won't protest it. It's not in their nature to complain, if they think "protecting artist's revenue" is for the good of society.
I hope the Music industry pays the connection chrg (Score:2, Interesting)
Iam sure the RIAA will pay my internet connection charges or atleast the provider will make it free.
If not, am filing a suit on using my money illegally without my permission.
I will file the case against the provider, they are ones who connect my phone to 'net.
If many people file, am sure they will either stop helping RIAA or bill them.
If not, an legally obliged to defend my property against unauthorized assaults.
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Not much, but he feels good about it.
Re:I hope the Music industry pays the connection c (Score:5, Insightful)
>Japan. Recording Industry Association of *America*.
Same arseholes, different toilet.
We still get shat upon.
Questions?
$postercomment =~ s/RIAA/RIAJ/g; (Score:2)
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The RIAA is not limited to America, just ask their lawyers.
Re:I hope the Music industry pays the connection c (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are translating into English, you use an English word your readers will understand.
What a depressing pandering to ignorance. What's wrong finding out who is involved and what they are? You know, actually stepping outside your insular little bubble and learning something new? Pinning this on the usual boogeyman is just lazy and dishonest.
By your logic, when the Japanese Prime Minister does something Slashdot readers should be told in translation what "Barack Obama" is up to in Japan. After all, who knows or recognises Taro Aso? Who cares they are completely different people?
Why stop there? I'm not sure about this "Japan", best translate it as "Hawaii".
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You say he is the Japanese Prime Minister, even though Prime Minister might not be his actual title.
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That's what the Japanese government calls it:
Official site of the Prime Minister of Japan and his Cabinet. [kantei.go.jp]
There are many prime ministers in the world. There are many "recording industry associations". The is only one "RIAA", and only one "RIAJ".
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Fair point, but not quite. Translating titles is not the same as substituting names.
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A word that means the same thing, fine. A NAME, whether of a person, place or organisation, no fucking way. That is just idiotic.
In any case, you should spell out an acronym on the first use in an article, and I think "Recordin
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They wouldn't be using your money without your permission, by trying to play the song you'd be giving them permission. At least that's how their lawyers would probably argue it.
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No effect whatsoever (Score:2, Interesting)
There isn't likely going to be any fallout whatsoever from this. The technology will go into place, be pretty much invisible, and provide enough benefits for legitimate users that no one will cry except for people who aren't connected in any way to Japan.
This is the way technology works. It gets implemented invisibly and no one ever knows they lost any sort of freedoms. In fact, they gain all sorts of benefits like better quality samples and higher bandwidth to support the increased usage.
In the U.S., it's
Re:No effect whatsoever (Score:5, Insightful)
The technology will go into place, be pretty much invisible, and provide enough benefits for legitimate users that no one will cry except for people who aren't connected in any way to Japan.
In what way will this provide _ANY_ benefit to legitimate users? They can already play their music, so they will see no benefit from having to 'phone home' to verify that they can, and will see significant risks of being incorrectly refused the right to play music they've been given or paid for.
Users can only suffer from this nonsense, because they can only be denied the right to do what they've been doing up until now.
Re:No effect whatsoever (Score:4, Funny)
In what way will this provide _ANY_ benefit to legitimate users?
More music sellers will be willing to provide music through such a system, making the available amount of music larger as a whole. (Kinda like how the vast majority of legitimate paying mobile application developers have flocked to the iphone, where the largest successful DRM implementation is)
I'm not saying I at all agree with this plan, i'm simply answering your question.
Assuming no sharing (Score:3, Funny)
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If that were the case, why is it that you don't see more e-Books, etc. online.
Your reasoning is flawed because you presume that the lack of DRM is the bar to bringing it online like they keep repeating.
That's not the bar, as Apple's and PayPlay and a few others have shown. DRM's not going to make the content there and cheaper. If anything it'll be priced at what the providers think the market will bear. DRM, in essence, is not about preventing "piracy"- it's about control and making you pay as often as t
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More music sellers will be willing to provide music through such a system
Wrong; 90% of recorded music is indie, and only the majors push DRM (even though the indies actually sell only a fraction of what the majors sell... er, rent). The reason isn't to stop piracy but to stop the competetion, the indies, who can't get on the radio. Indies use P2P, internet radio, word of mouth, etc., which is why the majors want it stamped out.
I'm not very damned likely to buy your CD if I've never heard your music, am I?
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Re:No effect whatsoever (Score:5, Insightful)
If this technology is getting implemented invisibly then why did it make front page news on slashdot?? Phail. Not even Echelon has been implemented invisibly.
Are you really telling us that because some people download pirated material we are not going to get any service upgrades? If not then why do you equate having phones without DRM with a free life in squalor?
Lastly, why on earth do you think that this isn't going to cause problems? DRM has caused major disruptions everywhere else it has been implemented. Do you think the Japs have the miracle fix for DRM that the rest of the world has been missing?
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Telecom companies are not going to upgrade their infrastructure just because the music industry wants DRM everywhere.
Quite right. What we'll get is QoS to ensure that DRM traffic gets priority.
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Not so invisibly as that, as evidenced by the disappearance of Cartoon Network from my service...
Fuck you comcast!
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Not so invisibly as that, as evidenced by the disappearance of Cartoon Network from my service...
From your comment, I'm going to deduce that you have cable.
Cable != broadcast. Two different protocols, requirements, etc... Comcast was merely taking advantage of the switch date to confuse people and deflect blame. Or if you're not as paranoid, to take advantage of people expecting change/disruption to their TV that day.
For the parent, though, I'll mention that the switch was NOT 100% transparent for me - I had to have the TV relearn the channels whenever a switch occured. Not a big deal except that e
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The US' awful cellphone market isn't either standard in the western world, nor a result of being too 'free' (the opposite, actually).
No connection? (Score:5, Insightful)
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What if you're on the subway and you want to play a song? You know, like 75% of all people do everyday on their way to and from work.
My bet is that it would be easier in Japan to make non-coverage maps, than coverage maps. And I reckon phones work perfectly in the subway.
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I would use my Rockbox'ed Sansa. If a user of this kind of phone wants to allow the corporations to control him like that, then that's his problem. Frankly, I don't want to hear anyone complain about it. There are always options. If you play by their rules, then you can't complain.
I make it a point to only deal with non-DRM music, and I pay for everything that I use. No one can take that from me. I have nothing to fear, unless open and hackable devices become illegal and the ones I now own all die...
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I make it a point to only deal with non-DRM music, and I pay for everything that I use. No one can take that from me.
Sure they can. They can stop making non-DRM music available to buy. (I know, the trend seems to be slowly creeping in the opposite direction, but the possibility still exists.)
Re:No connection? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:No connection? (Score:5, Funny)
Forget about no coverage, usually snakes are more of problem.
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They don't work even in Tokyo's subways, with the exception of the stations. And the reason you're usually taking the subway is to get from point A to point B, not to camp out at a station.
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Given that there are incredibly strong cultural taboos in Japan against using a mobile phone on public transport
Indeed, I was just in Tokyo and the surrounding cities for 8 days and I saw all of *two* people actually talking on cellphones while on the Metro or JR. Everyone had iPods or some sort of other music player crammed into their ears, and spent the whole train ride texting, it seemed.
I really think when you have something like 12 million people jammed into a city, following the rules does a fair bit of good in ensuring that everyone gets along fine.
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Will all audio be screened? (Score:4, Insightful)
What if I record something myself using the "voice recorder" function and want to play it? Will that have to be run by the RIAA first? Will I be forbidden from exchanging my own recordings (of my baby laughing or whatever) with my friends?
If not, then surely someone will make a simple scrubber app that makes an MP3 look to the phone like a user-recorded sound.
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Nice way to totally miss the point (and the "or whatever").
Re:Will all audio be screened? (Score:4, Insightful)
My intention was to come up with an example in which there was no conceivable argument of corporate copyright interest. I should have thought that would be obvious given the context.
It's Not Already? (Score:3, Interesting)
I am more surprised that this isn't already the case. I lived in Japan for several years and owned a few au phones. My first year I had a low end au phone and the two years after I had a higher end Casio. The higher end had some great features - good camera, 1seg TV, Japanese/English dictionary etc., but it was locked down to all hell. I couldn't even get my own ringtones on it, let alone MP3s or apps. As much as I wanted to customize my phone and not pay through the nose for approved stuff, I could do nothing.
Feature-wise my current Blackberry Curve is way behind my au phone, but I can at least use it's Bluetooth to connect to my laptop and use my own MP3s as ringtones.
You know the answer (Score:5, Insightful)
"Who would pay for the costs of the DRM checks, and what would happen if no connection could be established?"
If anything the last decade has taught us about the modus operandi of music industries is that they simply dont care and want their dollars. Who would pick up the tab for the check? The phone user. What would happen if there was no connection? No music.
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What can they do? "Urrr... You're contractually obliged for 24 months to pay us £25 per month for the service." "Oh, right. You're contractually obliged to provide the service I pay for. QED, bitch."
Re:You know the answer (Score:5, Insightful)
You're contractually obliged to provide the service I pay for
You really didn't read that contract, did you?
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Except they're not obliged to provide anything. And even if they were, they always have lines in the contract allowing them to change the terms anytime they want.
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Which allows you to terminate the contract with no penalty.
At least it does in the UK. UTCA controls this
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>> If anything the last decade has taught us about the modus operandi of music industries is that they simply dont care and want their dollars.
Actually to be more specific, they want their dollars now. The actions they've taken are very short-sighted, and don't consider the long-term impact on the demand for music (or demand for "legitimate" music) in general.
If you make listening to music a pain in the butt, people will do it less. This negatively impacts the size of their potential market (both le
will fail (Score:5, Insightful)
All these hypothetical examples are beside the point. If the music industry wants this implemented, it will likely happen.
But even so, it won't work. Japan's music industry is even more moribund than the US industry. It got fat and comfortable charging for singles the equivalent of what US consumers charge for albums, and for albums, the equivalent of US$30 or more. Meanwhile it pushes the same arthritic set of superstars that have dominated their pop scene for 10, 15, 20 years or more. The end result is that the cost of entry for unknown acts is too high, new music suffers. Japanese consumers have grown accustomed to buying albums used and ripping them. Locking mobiles will just increase the sales of walkmans and ipods and will make it more of a no-brainer to circumvent DRM'ed music.
This is ridiculous (Score:4, Insightful)
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"this would connect to a DRM server on the Internet whenever the cell phone user would try to play a song. The song would only play if the response of the server would be positive. Otherwise no song would be played."
Under this silly scheme, even the copyright owner couldn't listen to their own stuff on their own phone!
That is the very first thing I thought of when I read the above statement. Essentially, the recording industry wants final say over which string of octets (bytes or data sent to an audio codex) are acceptable and which are not. Since there will (and can only) be a finite number of "acceptable" octet permutations, the number of unacceptable octet permutations becomes a mystery. If they leave it as finite, attempting to selectively target pirated copies, their DRM can be polymorphically (if not easily) circum
My Sweet Lord (Score:2)
For instance, one of my friends plays in an amateur band. He gives us MP3s of their material - in fact the 10 or so of us that get given this are probably the entirety of their regular audience. They do it for love and the delight that people are listening to their stuff - for the same reason they put cliups on youtube. Under this silly scheme, even the copyright owner couldn't listen to their own stuff on their own phone!
But how does he know that he owns the copyright on the song that he recorded? At least under United States copyright law, accidentally copying part of a song you heard a decade ago into your own song is infringement. Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music. Or does Japanese copyright law differ noticeably in this respect?
JASRAC Strikes Again... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:JASRAC Strikes Again... (Score:5, Informative)
Don't mean to break your stride, but you do realize that ten thousand yen is less than US$100, right?
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And he also said back in 1993. According to FXhistory [oanda.com] 10k yen was worth about $80 back then.
You confused yen with dollar (Score:2)
To be a bit picky you either meant "club were forced down [independently of the money fine]" or you meant "fines in the 10 of thousand dollar", because 10000 1993 Yen are what, 90$ ? There is a conversion factor for those year of 120 Y to 110 Y to 1 $.
I would never buy one (Score:2)
That would be a phone I would never buy.
It seems like the assholes are winning (Score:2)
I'm increasingly glad that my Palm Tungsten E2 with its pathetic little 1G SD card is still my main source of music and e-reading when I'm out and about. I've got 90 songs (all at CD quality), 31 novels, and a bunch of pdf's and Office files, and a few games. And NO DRM! Yes, I shift songs in and out, so I don't have access to every song I ever listened to. So what? I use this stuff to pass time when I'm on public transit and sitting in waiting rooms, not when I'm in an environment where I want to kic
if that's ever implemented... (Score:2)
The like consequences would be:
a) Slowdown in sales of new handsets.
b) Bigger use of independent mp3 players
c) Growth of the second-hand handsets market.
d) Growth of Internet buys of foreign-made handsets.
All in all, a bad thing for Japanese handset makers
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e) Sales of new handsets move to really cheap ones because the (otherwise nice) features of the high end ones are too crippled by DRM.
I agree that this will hurt Japanese handset makers. Independent importers who are not bound by the deal might profit (your case d).
iPhone influence? (Score:3, Insightful)
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this is only the start (Score:4, Interesting)
This is just so they can get the infrastructure in place for per-play or per-minute music charging. It would be trivial to hook this server up to the phone companies billing system to bill users every time they played a song.
The next step is then to provide addons to contracts offering "unlimited" songs, for only an additional $15 per month...
MPAA - RIAA Scum (Score:2, Informative)
Name and shame the companies as all the **AA trade group name is for is to protect the corporate globalists gatekeepers from bad press.
RIAA, CRIA, SOUNDEXCHANGE, BPI, IFPI, Ect:
# Sony BMG Music Entertainment
# W
Move it from phone to Home NAS. (Score:2)
Most young girls will not realize or care about this I expect.
But to put this in perspective, yesterday I saw a tasty-looking home NAS on the shelf of a store in Akihabara, Tokyo. The high end model, which among other things has some terabytes of RAID and a mysql server in it, can download bittorrent without having a pc connected to it.
I figure people will put music or video on their home-NAS, and maybe if it can be made easy even share the NAS with a bunch of friends. Then just stream to your phone. Encodi
Ah, shades of the year 2000 (and 2005) (Score:2)
Remember the Sony statements from 2000: ""The industry will take whatever steps it needs to protect itself and protect its revenue streams... It will not lose that revenue stream, no matter what... Sony is going to take aggressive steps to stop this. We will develop technology that transcends the individual user."
In 2005, Sony came out with their rootkit [wikipedia.org]. This was met with less-than-wild enthusiasm (plus a few lawsuits).
So in 2009, the industry takes a new approach: owning your cellphone.
This will con
It's so obviously full of /FAIL/ (Score:2)
For a technical audience like /. this kind of crap is obviously going to fail on a dozen of levels; but those fucktards keep pushing this nonsense, and they probably even believe it. Without even thinking very hard,
Is Data free over there? if not then this may cost (Score:2)
Is Data free over there? if not then this may cost a lot?
I can't see this working over hear as data and text cost a lot and some people have to block texts as they get billed for incoming and how about if you are roaming? hello big data bill.
Just thing about how many i-phone uses will be hit will big roaming bill if they where to try to play music out side of the usa.
The hack... (Score:2)
...to redirect all requests to yes.thepiratebay.org in 3...2...1..
I can imagine the headlines... (Score:3, Funny)
Travel to another country, listen to your music. Enjoy your $20000 roaming data charge.
ripped legally bought music (Score:2)
Keep dreaming.. that will be banned too.
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Your mobile provider doesn't? (Score:2)
This might be a little over the top, but pretty much all phones, except for hardcore smartphones running "outsider" software platforms like Palm and Windows Mobile (yes, it sounds odd to put Windows anything in that category, but fair's fair) are heavily restricted and locked down in one way or another. That includes the iPhone, and even Android: one of the advantages of Android over OpenMoko to the cellphone companies and carriers was that it let them maintain some of that lock-in.
So, your cellphone compan