Judge Won't Lower $5M Bail For Jailed SF IT Admin 429
snydeq writes "San Francisco County Judge Charles Haines has denied Terry Childs' motion to reduce his $5 million bail, alluding to 'public security concerns,' according to Richard Shikman, who is representing Childs in court. The ruling comes in the wake of a recent decision to drop three of the four changes that have been levied against Childs, who has spent the past 14 months in jail. The fourth charge — that Childs violated a California statute regarding illegal denial of service for the San Francisco FiberWAN — has been called into question by those closely monitoring the case. As a point of comparison, the San Francisco Felony Bail Schedule lists a $1 million bail for the most serious crimes, such as sexual assault of a child, aggravated arson, or kidnapping for ransom. Prosecutors have argued that the bail is appropriate because, if released, Childs could cause damage to San Francisco's network."
Re:No confidence (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:take that SF (Score:5, Interesting)
If I were Mr Childs, at this point my thoughts would be less on vandalizing the network and more on vandalizing the nose of the prosecuting attorney who convinced the judge that there was some sort of danger to the network if I was released.
No hit-by-bus protection (Score:3, Interesting)
While it seems the prosecutors in this case are overreacting (why's this even a criminal case?), what I find curious is that there was no scheme to retrieve the passwords if Childs were to pass away accidentally (no HBB protection). Passwords written on paper in a safe, safety deposit box or similar, or the passphrase to Password Safe written down somewhere secure.
It's pretty stupid to have to physically access all the routers to reset passwords in the event that the network admin dies or quits in fury. Just write the procedure into the admin's job description.
Maybe I don't remember Civic's very well.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe I don't remember HS Civic's very well but I thought the point of bail was ONLY to prevent flight, not that it had been redefined to be large as a result of danger the innocent (until proved otherwise) person poses. He's being jailed not because he's a flight risk but because of political posturing by the DA, that is a serious miscarriage of justice. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the guy but bail is clearly being misused here.
Re:Judge doesn't quite understand (Score:3, Interesting)
except it's a self correcting issue. Don't build more roads, but keep the current in repair.
People will get sick of the traffic and find other was to get into the city.
Re:No Sympathy for Childs... (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree with a bit of what you've said, but I totally disagree with the last two sentence in your post... and since you weren't there how would you know?
So what, you think this man is sitting in jail all of this time and wouldn't hand the password over to someone *just to be a dick*?
It is true that every place has politics, and that you have to be mindful of them, and sometimes the most technically gifted among us seem to (at times, but not everyone and not always) be short of the political and "working well with others" side of things, but none of that means he was all in the wrong, or that there isn't more to the story, or that the people who actually treated this like a pissing match and blew it all out of proportion aren't the ones who are really in the wrong here. Maybe it could have been handled differently, but maybe not....
Just because in a similar circumstance you or many other people might back down, doesn't mean he was wrong....I think he thought he was absolutely doing what was right and what was in the best interests of the city, I think that there were some things going on that shouldn't have been and he took a principled stand ..... The way he has been treated in court, the fact that 3 of the 4 changes have been dropped and the remaining charge is completely dubious and he *STILL* is being held with 5M bail tells me that something isn't right here...Even if he DID act like a total asshole (which I tend to think is not the case), that bail is still completely inappropriate.
I really don't think he'll have a hard time getting work after this. It's possible he won't be able to work for a municipality or certain corporations, but so what...
Re:Witchcraft (Score:5, Interesting)
They were treated that way because Mitnick and in this case Childs didn't learn from the down falls of others. I was into messing with phone systems, cellular systems and other "key infrastructure" type systems in the early 1990s. At that point in time I was in my early teens and pretty much immune from prosecution for my actions. I also had the benefit of the fact that very few people knew anything about networked systems and laws like DCMA and the like weren't on the books. When I turned 18 I took a look around me and I realized this very key thing. The "powers that be" made a conscious decision to spend their efforts prosecuting people who exploit obvious and "easy to secure" holes in systems. I had access to 5ESS switches not because I was an uber hacker, but because the admins were lazy and never changed default passwords and/or failed to shred trash. Rather than spending the effort to educate/train competent admins and put an emphasis on securing systems, they decided to take the approach of severely punishing anyone who messed with the systems. In my case, the approach worked. Free phone calls and root accounts on systems weren't worth trading for jail time in Federal prison.
Terry Childs seems to have made the mistake that a lot of socially inept people make. They tend to believe that their knowledge will insulate them from the brute force of the establishment. Childs apparently felt that he was doing the right thing and wasn't able to distance himself from his own beliefs long enough to recognize that they were putting him in jeopardy. The way he has been treated is absolutely reprehensible. What it isn't is unpredictable. A person who stands in the way of the government should either be ready to start a full on insurrection, or be prepared to be cast aside. The government doesn't do what is "right". They do what needs to be done to maintain order.
Re:too easy (Score:5, Interesting)
no, it was a network that had him as the "caretaker". Despite the methods, from what has been said, what he was doing was trying to protect the network. As a "caretaker", it's his job to do what he must to protect the network. Of course, there are proper methods and limits, but I don't see why what he did would justify 14 months in jail and $5M bail. They've had the passwords for over a year, for God sake. If he wanted the network to get stuffed, he could have very well also let the passwords somewhere else or with someone else to do the job for him in case anything happened to him, so they could hold the network hostage. Did that happened? Childs seems to be a guy to smart to NOT do something like this if his intentions were less than honorable (regardless of the methods).
No sense of proportion (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:14 Months? (Score:2, Interesting)
You actually think that laws to protect you from the government actually apply to you?
Well, speaking as a relatively wealthy white guy with a few political connections and at least a basic understanding legal procedures, I'd say yes. If I were, say, poor, black, or less connected, I'd probably be very very screwed if I were accused of something.
Which category do you think Terry Childs fits in?
Re:too easy (Score:2, Interesting)
add "judges" to that, will you?
Judges ARE lawyers, so no need to add them.
Can we help him? (Score:4, Interesting)
As a SysAd and citizen I find this case to be disturbing. I don't know if visiting him in jail would be helpful.
Do they even let one have cookies in there? Cookies may not help him or his case, but cookies can taste good.
Re:Disagreement (Score:3, Interesting)
Exactly, the entire thing was a CIVIL matter, not criminal, because he legally had the right to possess the passwords and he was questioning the right of the managers to ask for what they claimed was their stuff. The very arresting him without some kind of charge first .. the DA isn't a JUDGE... and isn't a police officer there's no obligation to follow any orders from them.
They KNEW they were going to fire him and could have gotten an injunction from a judge to compel the passwords before they even told him. Then the whole deal would be simple contempt and done with over a year ago.
Re:Whatever happened to the constitution? (Score:3, Interesting)
Judge needs to be removed and disbarred.
worse. put HIM in prison.
in fact, each judge should spend mandatory time in jail.
I'm 1000% serious. they are so far detached from the common-experience, they have NO IDEA what the fuck they are doing.
truly a rich nobility class. effectively. ...makes me sick!
I bet that judge would think twice if he lost some of his power and had to live 'under the sword' like us mortals do.
a sysadmin spending time in jail. my god. and in one of the most enlightened areas of the country (yes, the bay area usually is pretty forward thinking; which makes this even more surprising).
Re:too easy (Score:4, Interesting)
As I said: I'm not judging his ability to choose the best method of action, which most likely is somehow impaired, but his intentions, which were clearly shown to be good, although improperly applied.
Re:too easy (Score:2, Interesting)
Except that it would have technically been a violation of the cities usage policy for him to give up the passwords under the circumstances. As we've seen, various employers are starting to get comfortable with the idea of bringing felony charges against their employees for violating usage policies. So, when he was pulled into that bizarre meeting, he may have reasonably believed that giving up the passwords would be the criminal thing to do. In fact, he may have been in a situation where there were two choices, and both would have been illegal. The law is never supposed to put you in a position where all your choices are illegal. There's a legal principle, but I can't remember the name of it.
Citation needed (Score:3, Interesting)
His duty to help them by giving them passwords and other confidential information ALSO ended when his employment contract ended. That's what the law says.
I want to see some solid proof for this. Because I am betting there are residual obligations under his contract - or that his contract was never properly terminated.
Re:Citation needed (Score:3, Interesting)
This is pathetic. (Score:2, Interesting)
making laws about stuff they don't understand (Score:1, Interesting)
The Hacker Manifesto
by
+++The Mentor+++
Written January 8, 1986
Another one got caught today, it's all over the papers. "Teenager Arrested in Computer Crime Scandal", "Hacker Arrested after Bank Tampering"...
Damn kids. They're all alike.
But did you, in your three-piece psychology and 1950's technobrain, ever take a look behind the eyes of the hacker? Did you ever wonder what made him tick, what forces shaped him, what may have molded him?
I am a hacker, enter my world...
Mine is a world that begins with school... I'm smarter than most of the other kids, this crap they teach us bores me...
Damn underachiever. They're all alike.
I'm in junior high or high school. I've listened to teachers explain for the fifteenth time how to reduce a fraction. I understand it. "No, Ms. Smith, I didn't show my work. I did it in my head..."
Damn kid. Probably copied it. They're all alike.
I made a discovery today. I found a computer. Wait a second, this is cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me... Or feels threatened by me.. Or thinks I'm a smart ass.. Or doesn't like teaching and shouldn't be here...
Damn kid. All he does is play games. They're all alike.
And then it happened... a door opened to a world... rushing through the phone line like heroin through an addict's veins, an electronic pulse is sent out, a refuge from the day-to-day incompetencies is sought... a board is found. "This is it... this is where I belong..." I know everyone here... even if I've never met them, never talked to them, may never hear from them again... I know you all...
Damn kid. Tying up the phone line again. They're all alike...
You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us willing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert.
This is our world now... the world of the electron and the switch, the beauty of the baud. We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals. We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals.
Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.
I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike.
Re:too easy (Score:3, Interesting)
If your business can be taken out of action by an administrator leaving, then you have serious business process problems.
What's interesting about this case is that the business practices was apparently one of the things Childs bitched about - for years.