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CRIA, MPAA Demand Expanded DMCA For Canada 224

Posted by timothy
from the professional-envy dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The Canadian Recording Industry Association and the MPAA's Canadian subsidiary are demanding that Canada adopt copyright laws that go beyond even the DMCA. The groups demand anti-circumvention law, three strikes and you're out legislation, and increased secondary liability for websites. The demands come as part of the national copyright consultation in which hundreds of Canadians have spoken out against such reforms."
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CRIA, MPAA Demand Expanded DMCA For Canada

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  • Seriously.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:20PM (#29024855)

    Who the fuck are they to demand that a country do their bidding? Go to hell already.

  • by gpronger (1142181) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:21PM (#29024865) Journal
    So what we have is the average Canadian, thinking their government should do one thing, and a few vested parties (with A LOT of $$$) disagreeing. I know how this plays out on this side of the border, but will Canadian govt actually listen to it's people? Eh? Greg
    • by Demonantis (1340557) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:28PM (#29024979)
      Not with Harper in power. He likes to roll over and play dead for anything corporate. Fortunately its a minority and the senate is still there to protect the interests of the people of Canada. On a side note, I haven't seen anything from CBC so I don't know how many Canadians actually know this is happening. If I am wrong it would be nice to see a link to the article.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:31PM (#29025045)

        Stephen Harper is like Bush, but without the charisma.

      • by Garbad Ropedink (1542973) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:50PM (#29025279)

        Oh please!

        The Liberals are at the same corporate trough as the Conservatives.
        Remember Paul Martain? Do you remember him, our former prime-minster? The one who didn't want to pay Canadian taxes on his ships so he registered them outside the country and staffed them all with foreign workers, yet still called his shipping company 'Canadian Shipping'. Do you remember him? Do you remember the private copying levy that the Liberals introduced back in 1997? Where we have to pay extra money on all blank media we buy here to compensate the poor media companies and the losses they incur? The Liberals have ZERO problem with enacting the same laws.

        If you want a leader who's against new copyright laws you have to look to the ones who're anti-american like the Bloc, and the NDP, or Green.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by euxneks (516538)
          Listen, can't we all just recognize that all parties are completely inept? I mean the NDP would be happy taxing us to death for the poor, the downtrodden, whatever, I can't vote for the Bloc out here in BC (even though I would -- just to see what happened) and the green party is nothing but conservatives dressed in green - I like none of their policies. The liberals are a bunch of wankers who can't seem to get any sort of cohesion, and the conservatives are fucking nuts.
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by jez9999 (618189)

            I'd say Pirate Party.... hopefully you'll get one soon. In the last few days, the UK Pirate Party [pirateparty.org.uk] has registered as an official party in the UK!

        • by Civil_Disobedient (261825) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @03:05PM (#29027611)

          Do you remember the private copying levy that the Liberals introduced back in 1997? Where we have to pay extra money on all blank media we buy here to compensate the poor media companies and the losses they incur?

          Actually, this was a godsend in disguise, because it essentially created a giant loophole for Bittorrent operators in Canada. The CRIA hasn't been nearly as successful as their American counterpart because infringing citizens can happily point to the levy and say, "You're already getting your cut, so STFU."

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by davester666 (731373)

        Uh, the Senate? Stop legislation in Canada? I don't think so. I can recall only a single time in the past 30 years when they DELAYED some legislation briefly (a month or two).

        And I hope they can stop this legislation, because right after it, the media companies will immediately go to Congress and demand changes in copyright law to match or exceed that in Canada, "just to give US companies equal protection".

      • by Beardo the Bearded (321478) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @02:46PM (#29027225)

        Well, well, well...

        The Liberals are neck-and-neck with the Conservatives in the polls and are looking for an issue to galvanize the elusive 18-35 year old citizens into voting.

        If only there was something contentious, like making it illegal to copy legally purchased materials or record TV. Something like "You could go to jail or face $20,000 for owning a modded XBox." Telling young professionals that content will be decided not by the CRTC, but by cable providers and American lobby groups. If you buy a DVD for your kids and let them use a ripped copy to skip the ads and keep the copy clean, that's a violation of WIPO, which could jail you and bankrupt you. Using any operating system that bypasses security features would do the same, too.

        If only there was a way to contact your local Liberal [liberal.ca], Bloq [blocquebecois.org], and NDP [www.ndp.ca] MPs and let them know how you, as a citizen and registered voter, think this is worth an election.

        Imagine the ads:
        Have a guy walking down the street, listening to an MP3 player. A van pulls up next to him, and RCMP with guns order him to the ground. One policeman grabs the player, looks through it, says, "full of mp3s" to another one. They arrest him and put him in the van.

        Announcer: "This is the Conservative plan for copyright reform."

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Runaway1956 (1322357)

      Here, we will find out if Canadians have more balls than us Americans who live south of the 49th parallel. Hopefully, the Canucks will tell them all to eat shit, and that will give the voters in the states a little motivation to get off THEIR dead asses to protest.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Will the corrupters of the U.S. get control of Canada, too?

        By some measures, the U.S. government is the most corrupt in the world. For example, this Rolling Stone article: The Great American Bubble Machine [rollingstone.com]. (The full article is in the paper edition, available at any library.)

        The U.S. government spends more money on surveillance and war than any country in the history of the world. That taxpayer money partly helps those who want corruption to profit, and hurts U.S. taxpayers, and the entire world. For just o

  • by Joelfabulous (1045392) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:22PM (#29024879)

    Fuck you.

    We've been opposed to this shit since the beginning of your so-called "reforms," and now you go one further and try to make it even more draconian?

    And you wonder why I have no qualms subverting your business model and giving money in a more direct manner to the artist instead.

    • by TheGratefulNet (143330) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:28PM (#29024977)

      And you wonder why I have no qualms subverting your business model

      pass whatever laws you've been PAID to pass.

      that's quite a different matter from getting buy-in from the citizenry. they won't follow really bad laws.

      in the US, we already ignore copyright (many of us do) as a way of protesting the current status quo.

      civil disobedience works and is justified here. ignore any bad laws passed. they don't apply to you. they were corrupt and so are null and void. use your own good common sense! the understanding of what's right and wrong is inside you; you don't need to look at BOUGHT AND PAID FOR laws for your morality.

      once the media industry decided to play fair, we'll take off the mitts and also play fair. until then, its lawlessness. on both sides.

      • by DrLang21 (900992)

        ignore any bad laws passed. they don't apply to you.

        Try saying that when they finally decide to make copyright violation a criminal offense and want to put you in jail or on probation for file sharing.

        • by Shikaku (1129753) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:55PM (#29025369)

          You think you can jail 3/4 of a country?

          • by DrLang21 (900992)
            The RIAA/MPAA is not interested in attacking every single copyright violator. They are only interested in making extreme examples of a handful of unlucky people to warn everyone else. Is it working? You betcha! I think twice before I download anything now. I don't have $3000 to settle with, I sure as hell don't have $1.5 million to lose in court, and I have no desire to ruin my wife and I's spotless and good credit history by going through bankruptcy.
            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by Shagg (99693)

              Apparently their misinformation campaign is working just as well as their fear campaign. You do realize that nobody has settled or gone to court because of downloading, right?

              • by DrLang21 (900992) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @02:39PM (#29027069)
                Their fear campaign is indeed working on me. Regardless of the fact that they have not gone after anyone for downloading yet, they still have the ability. My risk assessment has determined that the risk is not worth it. I have busted my ass for years to get where I am and now I'm busting my ass trying to secure my family's future. I can not afford having that all come crashing down. Note that if you use torrents, you are almost certainly sharing, even if you are only sharing a small piece of the complete puzzle. It amuses me that I can afford the cost of getting caught putting people's lives at risk by speeding in my car, but I can't afford the cost of getting caught sharing music.
            • Canada has a loser-pay system. If they sue you and you win, they will pay your court costs.

              In the US, they can threaten you with a lawsuit because it can cost you tens of thousands (or more) to defend with no chance of recovery.

            • by Atriqus (826899)

              It's worked on me as well, except I reacted by upping my obfuscation skills considerably. :D

          • You think you can jail 3/4 of a country?

            Nope. But send a few juicy targets off to the state pen and the rest will learn to keep their heads down. If a country makes a fairly minor crime a hanging offense, that first guy swinging from the gallows is a great message to any possible second. Laws aren't just punishments, they're also deterrents.

            • by dgatwood (11270)

              That really doesn't work, though. Laws as deterrents are only effective if the risk of getting caught is high. It's far too easy to almost completely eliminate that risk, and thus, using copyright law in this way is doomed to failure.

              All the P2P clients would have to do to seriously frustrate attempts at assigning liability is design P2P clients to take advantage of the DMCA safe harbor provision for caching servers. If clients lie about the available peers and proxy requests for files that they don't ha

          • Yes.

            (speeding, marijuana, etc - do you need more examples?)
            • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

              by Anonymous Coward

              Speeding tickets and most other vehicular-related offenses are just a revenue grab for the ticket-writing jurisdiction. They are intended not to really deter behavior, just to allow the jurisdiction to shake people down for money. If you wanted to deter routine 10-over speeding, running red lights, and violating parking regulations (three of the biggest revenue-grabbing charges), you would have penalties similar to that of DWIs and attempted vehicular homicide/reckless endangerment. Those have serious conse

            • by MBGMorden (803437)

              Everybody who does those doesn't get punished (the original poster mentioned jail time but I'll let that slide as you can go to jail for excessive speeding), and your example is a perfect one to illustrate the opposite point: despite the possibility of jail time TONS of people still do those things you mentioned. The fact that some paid of politician in a suit passed a law hasn't stopped people.

              No matter what laws you pass people will still end up breaking them if they don't agree with the law in the first

      • by horatio (127595)

        civil disobedience works and is justified here. ignore any bad laws passed. they don't apply to you. they were corrupt and so are null and void. use your own good common sense! the understanding of what's right and wrong is inside you; you don't need to look at BOUGHT AND PAID FOR laws for your morality.

        once the media industry decided to play fair, we'll take off the mitts and also play fair. until then, its lawlessness. on both sides.

        (emphasis mine) I think you nailed it. Unfortunately, "[any bad laws] don't apply to you" is a quick trip to anarchy. The RIAA and the other groups have no power without the government intervening on their behalf. Which is another in a long list of arguments for small government with limited power, positioned just barely to the left of anarchy.

      • by Lumpy (12016)

        Here in the USA though, you have to live like a spy or hunted criminal when you do that.

        I have 2 identical NAS drives in my home, one is offline with harmless home videos on it. the other has my 1TB of DVD rips and BluRay rips.

        They come in to raid my home they will file XBMC live media centers all looking at a NAS that has home movies and podcast videos on it. no evidence at all.

        My ripper is a laptop that can disappear easily as well.

    • I think you should go for an even morest draconianst reform: those who bring copyrighted material to the market place should be liable for any illegal copying. Ha, that would show them...

  • hundreds?? (Score:5, Funny)

    by gandhi_2 (1108023) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:22PM (#29024883) Homepage

    hundreds of Canadians have spoken out

    Who does that leave?

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Minwee (522556)

      Who does that leave?

      That leaves Jimmy, Sally and Suzy from Canada. I don't know them but I'm certain they're really, really nice.

    • by euxneks (516538)

      hundreds of Canadians have spoken out

      Who does that leave?

      Mike, from Canmore.

  • by Jaysyn (203771) <(moc.liamg) (ta) (todhsals+nysyaj)> on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:22PM (#29024885) Homepage Journal
    Canadians demand RIAA, MPAA, CRIA go die in a fire!
  • by stagg (1606187) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:24PM (#29024901)
    In a lot of ways Canada, like the US under President Obama, has done alright on Net Neutrality issues. Copyright is another matter. Canada has been staggering backwards for quite some time on that issue. Net Neutrality is threatening to everyone but the ISPs that stand to profit from it, Copyright is a much uglier matter. It's been a long time since I heard anyone say "but we pay tax on blank cds, it's okay to copy here! We already had this fight over tapes decades ago!" The way things are going I guess we just pay that tax for the hell of it.
    • by tixxit (1107127)

      It's been a long time since I heard anyone say "but we pay tax on blank cds, it's okay to copy here! We already had this fight over tapes decades ago!" The way things are going I guess we just pay that tax for the hell of it.

      Well, in all fairness, the general direction is going towards mp3 players. Canada, currently, does not have a tax on MP3 players, only tapes & CDs. We need to either start taxing mp3 players again or we really do have to give up the "but we pay tax on blank cds" argument.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ceoyoyo (59147)

      "Canada has been staggering backwards for quite some time on that issue."

      How do you figure? The courts decided that downloading was cool and since then we've resisted attempt after attempt (this is what, five?) to pass a DMCA. There hasn't been any going backwards. Yet.

  • Why the hell would adding draconian laws favorable only to certain industries be called "reforms"?

  • by CopaceticOpus (965603) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:28PM (#29024985)

    NCFPM (National Coalition of Five-hundred Pound Men) demands that Taco Bell increases sour cream levels in the Nachos Belle Grande!

    Cell Phone companies demand the right to increase text messaging rates using a logarithmic scale, and to charge a monthly rent for those you don't immediately delete!

    ICBE (International Coalition for Bathwater Equality) demands that whenever bathwater is thrown out, a baby is included!

  • "Democracy" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by javacowboy (222023) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:29PM (#29024993)

    A friend of mine said once that the global corporations, by nature of the vast resources they control, actually formulate government policy and the elected politicians are the ones tasked with selling those policies to the public. There are minor exceptions such as privatizing Social Security in Bush II's second term in which public opposition is too strong to put through the policy, but these are few and far between.

    In the case of the DMCA, this couldn't be closer to the truth. The problem is that the politicians have had difficulty selling the idea to Canadians at large, and prioritizing it in a minority government.

    With the comment submission process, the elites can make the already formulated policies more palatable to Canadians. Perhaps there will be a few minor compromises. But in the end, they'll get what they want once they find the right "marketing" formula.

    Personally, I find the idea that my internet access could be cut off after three false accusations of piracy to be frightening. I don't pirate anything, but the methodology for associating individuals with IP addresses is rife with errors and false positives.

  • by FudRucker (866063) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:39PM (#29025141)
    the next time you produce a movie why don't you just keep it locked in your vaults and don't let anyone touch it or see it, then nobody will be able to copy/download/upload or pirate it. if someone can see it you can bet they will find a way to make a copy to either share freely or to sell on the black market. and even those that technically don't know how to do it will just get one of those copies so in the long run you are wasting your time and money...

    those that just want to go to the theater will go anyway even if it is available free because they can go with friends & family or on a romantic date and enjoy the show (popcorn and sodapop too) and you still get your billions in return for your investment, so please quit acting like a paranoid selfish kid afraid that somebody is going to take a piece of your candy...
  • Of course (Score:4, Informative)

    by SilverHatHacker (1381259) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:46PM (#29025229)
    Because, don't forget, according to surveys, Canada has more piracy than the US.
    These surveys which I refer to are the ones which they admitted they extrapolated from the American data, without actually considering Canada at all... [michaelgeist.ca]
    So it makes total sense to demand stricter laws.
    • These surveys which I refer to are the ones which they admitted they extrapolated from the American data, without actually considering Canada at all... [michaelgeist.ca]

      Mods are not doing their job, seeing how that link in the parent post is about software piracy and has nothing to do with music or movies.

      Sheesh.
  • In Canada, broadband is classified as an essential service, so any 3 strikes law will fail. You cannot deny a person what is deemed a right.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by compro01 (777531)

      Could I get a link to where you're hearing this from? I've only read last year that the CRTC was considering classing it as an essential service, but I never heard anything further about it.

      • by Synchis (191050)

        There is no link, because the OP is totally incorrect.

        The CRTC just finished net neutrality hearings with pretty much every major ISP involved. Their decision I believe is still pending, but no law, statement, or otherwise has ever been made that deems Broadband an essential service.

        If it were an essential service, there would be much more strict regulation in place, ISP's would not be allowed to throttle service, and We would be *MUCH* happier with broadband in Canada.

        Unfortunately, Canada is slipping when

    • We deny rights all the time. If you are convicted of a felony you loose all your rights. You loose the right to vote and the right to bear arms. Felons are second class citizens.
  • by MartinSchou (1360093) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:52PM (#29025313)

    I seem to recall quite a few incidents where the RIAA, MPAA and their members and brethren have been caught using unlicensed code on their websites.

    Now, if this code is part of the navigation, chances are it'll be included on every single page served. Now, even if say http://www.riaa.com [riaa.com] only got 100 visitors per day, and each visitor only visited two pages, that'd be 200 counts of breach of copyright.

    At an average $22,500 per copyright violation, that comes up at $4,500,000 ... per day.

    Step 1) Write code
    Step 2) Find RIAA using that code unlicensed
    Step 3) Profit

    Even if they somehow get the damages reduced in court, they'll be arguing that their own claims for damages are completely out of proportion.

    Plus, as a group who is supposedly on the side of the creators, it'd look really bad if they tried to claim ignorance, unfair damages, that code isn't worth as much as songs etc.

    Basically it's a win-win situation.

    So, to all you bright people out there, I urge you to get hacking!

    But don't go putting code onto their webservers without them knowing it - that defence doesn't fly well in RIAA cases, and it'd be unfair to use it against them ;)

  • And I Demand... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by whisper_jeff (680366) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:54PM (#29025351)
    I demand that my members of parliament, regardless of party affiliation, stand up to these greed-interested lobby groups and champion the best interests of the people they serve - the people who elected them to their positions.

    As a voting Canadian, I assure the people in power that I do have influence over their job security should my demands not be met. Given that I am confident that my demands are not dissimilar to the demands of other Canadians, I would strongly suggest that the decision-makers of Canada pay close attention to my demands lest they find themselves out of work and replaced with someone who _is_ willing to represent the best interests of the people of my great nation.

    Further, I, as a proud Canadian, demand that lobby groups that do not serve the best interests of the people of my great nation fuck the hell off.
    • Did you write your MP? He likely doesn't read slashdot.

      • I wrote my MP, the leader of the Liberal party and the Prime Minister. Several times. And my letters to them were far more professional than my /. post but the core point remained the same.
    • You are NOT a voter.

      You are NOT a taxpayer.

      You are NOT a constituent.

      You are a CITIZEN of Canada and the government exists at your whim.

  • I'm willing to entertain the MPAA's proposal. But as a concession, I'd like DMCA repealed in US. Gimme that, and you can do whatever you want to Canada. Do we have a deal?

  • by Jason Levine (196982) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @12:58PM (#29025415)

    The MPAA/RIAA/etc gets their draconian copyright laws but with two modifications:

    1) When the copyright on a work expires, they are required to publish a high quality public domain version of the work in a well-documented format. (e.g. a high bitrate MP3 or lossless FLAC for audio. MPEG-2 for video.)

    2) Copyright terms will be shortened to 5 years.

    • by euxneks (516538)

      The MPAA/RIAA/etc gets their draconian copyright laws but with two modifications:

      1) When the copyright on a work expires, they are required to publish a high quality public domain version of the work in a well-documented format. (e.g. a high bitrate MP3 or lossless FLAC for audio. MPEG-2 for video.)

      2) Copyright terms will be shortened to 5 years.

      I would gladly support this. I would wear a tiara and a ballerina outfit on main street if it meant we got this.

  • Well, I demand that Mitch Bainwol eats my dick.
  • We now have fantastic communication access to our fellow humans. We also have access to awesome creative tools that allow us to express ourselves graphically and aurally. Thanks to the BSD and GNU people we have free creative tools and the tools to create those tools.

    It seems to me that the vital battles over the Internet center on reasonable access to bandwidth--not bandwidth for receiving data from the Cloud, but bandwidth for uploading and receiving content to and from the World.

    What's the big deal abo

  • by DaveV1.0 (203135) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @01:46PM (#29026219) Journal

    If you want 50, ask for 100 and let yourself be argued down a bit.

  • Write your MP, phone him (long distance rates are TOO cheap).
    Do the same to the Prime Minister
    Locate them here [parl.gc.ca].
    Write your newspaper. Sign up in the consultation.
    Talk to others who care.

    Be respectful and clear. Here are some potential talking points:
    1. The levy should be enough.
    2. Ordinary citizens keep opposing this, don't keep re-introducing it.
    3. If a politician wants to reverse alienation of young voters, come out vocally against bills like this.

    Maybe one day this will stop coming back?

    • by ansak (80421)

      Write your MP, phone him (long distance rates are TOO cheap).

      Or her. My MP is male so in my zeal to post I slipped past this point of gender equality.

  • by Fuzzums (250400)

    What the fuck are they thinking!
    It's time to have laws to protect the people against this kind of crap.
    Or we should stop having elections and start putting big companies in "the government" directly.

  • The MPAA and RIAA are trying to create precedent elsewhere so they can ram this bullshit down the throat of the U.S. is what's going on here.
  • by rbrander (73222) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @05:57PM (#29030549) Homepage

    I did attempt to submit this as a story a year ago. Didn't make the cut:

    rbrander writes "Canadian copyright watchdog Michael Geist has written the story of How the U.S. got its Canadian copyright bill". The arm-twisting was pretty up-front: "Canadian officials arrived ready to talk about a series of economic concerns but were quickly rebuffed by their U.S. counterparts, who indicated that progress on other issues would depend upon action on the copyright file." ... "the USTR...made veiled threats about 'thickening the border' between Canada and the U.S. if Canada refused to put copyright reform on the legislative agenda."

    The link for that submission was: http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/443867 [thestar.com]

    So, bottom line: It isn't the industry telling a nation of 30M people what to do, it's an industry saying "We pull strings and US trade negotiators dance the mamba for us. Do as you're told or they'll dance that mamba all over your timber, cattle, grain, and steel sales to a trading partner 10X your size."

    Not many people know that Canada is the US' largest trading partner: much larger than China, larger than China and Britain combined. But the converse is staggering: the US is 80% of our TOTAL world trade. When the US negotiators hit the table saying "No discussion of of all our trade issues about the big-ticket items until you cave on the little wee Intellectual Property issue", the Canadian government has very little choice but to comply. That goes across party lines.

  • Pointless "laws" (Score:3, Insightful)

    by spaceyhackerlady (462530) on Tuesday August 11, 2009 @06:14PM (#29030759)

    Any law that makes every citizen of the country a criminal is pointless and unenforceable.

    I'm always amazed at the industry spokespeople, and often wonder what planet they are from, because they certainly aren't from the same planet I'm from.

    It's not just copyright. We have a concerted lobbying campaign going on by the car dealers claiming that privately imported vehicles are the enemy of all that is free and right and holy and will cause the end of civilization as we know it, even though the sales of such vehicles are much smaller than, say, Lexus. They have a particular bee in their collective bonnet about right-hand drive vehicles, since these are the most obvious imports.

    ...laura

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