Real-World Consequences of Social Networking Posts 451
gbulmash sends in a classic Streisand Effect story of a Chicago landlord suing a tenant over a tweet complaining of mold in her apartment. The landlord claims that the tweet caused $50,000 damage to their reputation. If it didn't, then the fallout from their own ill-advised lawsuit surely will. The woman's Twitter account is now gone (possibly on advice of counsel), but the tweet that started it all lives on. And in a similar vein, reader levicivita notes a firing over a political comment on a Facebook page. "Lee Landor, who had been the deputy press secretary to Manhattan Borough President Scott M. Stringer since May, posted comments on her Facebook page criticizing Mr. Gates [Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr.] and the president, whom she referred to at one point as 'O-dumb-a.' ... The borough president has accepted Ms. Landor's resignation, effective immediately."
first amendment (Score:2, Interesting)
So here's what I don't get (and maybe a lawyer or wannabe-lawyer can explain it to me). We have the first amendment which protects us from government interference in speech. If I criticize a government official or policy the government is not allowed to retaliate in any way. Yet for some reason.... the private sector can? We've seen this before (Scientology, Streisand, etc.), and it never fails to boggle my mind that what the constitution protects from government interference, it doesn't protect from private sector lawyers.
Re:This is stupid (Score:3, Interesting)
I got fired for a tweet (Score:5, Interesting)
Programmer and account manager for a small consultancy firm.
Went on to twitter and said that I got a user-error and for the program I was administering to unfuck itself.
Apparently the parent company didnt have a twitter presence but was having people search / spy. It got back to my company and viola - collecting unemployment.
Since then I have locked down my online profile to a MUCH greater degree - and as such im posting this anon ;)
Re:Landlord is a moron (Score:1, Interesting)
so complaining about political parties at a rally should be illegal by your logic.
Re:Landlord is a moron (Score:3, Interesting)
Only possible legit suit you could have is one for libel. Ok well libel requires three things:
1) That the respondent made a false statement. Truth is the ultimate defense against libel. If there was, in fact, mold in the apartment then the landlord is done right here.
No, not really... because the post claimed that Horizon Realty thinks it's ok [to sleep in a moldy apartment]. So, if there was a complaint about mold (the mold doesn't even have to be there, because her post didn't claim there was any), and Horizon Realty was dismissive of the complaint because they felt there was no harm to mold, then she's got the truth defense.
Landlording (Score:3, Interesting)
As an ex-landlord, I view the situation with a measure of caution.
In my experience as a landlord, most problems occur as a direct result of actions taken by the tenants. In this case, spilling water and not immediately cleaning it up will cause mold. This happens because the tenants don't "own" the property they are living in. Cleaning up requires effort, and there's no incentive on the part of the tenants to do this.
To be fair, it may have been caused by the previous tenants, and so it's not the current tenants' fault. Also, many tenants are unaware of the problems which are caused by, for example, not cleaning up the water left over from snowy boots in the entranceway.
Mold is (apparently) completely blown out of proportion by companies that want to be paid to remove it. Yes, toxic mold does occasionally happen and it should be dealt with... but it's extremely rare. Not at all the level of fear an panic that we currently see. The vast majority of mold cases are not worth the effort.
Re:Landlording (Score:2, Interesting)
as a renter, I view this situation with a measure of caution.
I suspect my unit suffers from leaky-condo-syndrome, with likely a good chunk of the rest of the building. The windows let in quite a lot of water during winter storms here (west coast, so mostly rain). This pools on the windowsill and causes all sorts of water damage plus lets nasty things grow. It's extremely hard to keep on top of (aka: I don't have time to sit there and mop every crevice of every window every time it rains, which is often daily during the wintertime). I also travel for work and am away for weeks at a time. Funny how it never seems to happen when, you know, it's not raining outside.
The landlords solution? Blame me for not using the shower fan while I shower. Seriously. This isn't a cheap place either --it's a $1600/mo apartment. Meanwhile, I have a rather long email trail as well as photographs of it (often) in case he tries to stiff me for damages later (which he probably will).
Can't wait until my lease is up so I can get the hell out of there.
Re:Free speech (Score:5, Interesting)
He said that while she moved out recently, the company never had a conversation about the post and never asked her to take it down.
"We're a sue first, ask questions later kind of an organization," [italics mine] he said, noting that the company manages 1,500 apartments in Chicago and has a good reputation it wants to preserve.
Dear morons.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Consequences will find you. Perhaps you need to stop being such a tool and think ahead. I never put my real birthday or even my real last name into facebook. I know computers have taught a lot of you to ignore the fine print. But really - if there is fine print its best to know what you are getting into. Think of it as an opportunity to learn about law.
Re:Fools! (Score:2, Interesting)
It didn't take me long to find your real name. You play Eve Online and is opposed to food stamps for the poor.
Congratulations, you've just validated the lawsuit (Score:1, Interesting)
Do you realize that, based on nothing more than a tweet, you've just assumed both that (1) there was a mold problem, and (2) its existence was the management company's fault?
This is the whole reason they're suing!
Re:Two incidents, two responses (Score:3, Interesting)
Out of curiosity, how do non-profits fit into that? e.g., if a church hires a dude and the dude later "recants" so to speak, can the church "fire" him on religious grounds?
(genuinely asking as I'm ignorant..)
Re:it was only a matter of time (Score:4, Interesting)
Horizon Realty is a piece of shit company who sues everyone without thinking and has moldy apartments.
I hope Horizon goes out of business. I used to rent an apartment from them and when I moved in I had them clearly state in the lease what utilities I was responsible for (I mainly just wanted to know exactly what util companies I was going to need to contact and setup accounts for but also wanted to have it in writing) they wrote in pen "tenant is only responsible for electricity, cable tv, and water utilities" right on the lease. Well then at move out time I get a bill sent to me from the gas company saying I owe a whole years worth of gas bills, I was like WHAT???
Apparently the water heater was the only gas appliance in the whole apartment and since I did not have access to it and also because I had an electric stove/oven and steam heat I did not have any idea there was a gas appliance at all. Also, the gas bill sent to me was in MY NAME and I NEVER was notified any account was setup in the first place, the only way the gas company could have gotten that information was by contacting Horizon Management (and I am pretty sure setting a utility account up in someones name without them knowing is illegal but I don't know for sure).
Anyway, I contacted the manager and was told since the fine print says tenant is responsible for all individually metered utils that it was my problem, they didnt care they had written clearly I was only responsible for the 3 utils I mentioned above. It was obvious they screwed up and then when they started getting the gas bills instead of notifying me they waited until the end of the year and THEN signed me up for a gas account, this way they wouldn't have to deal with a pissed off/annoyed renter all year long and I am sure they also figured since most students leave town at the end of the year that I wouldn't have time to deal with it. The bill was only about $300 or something but I still was curious what my legal standing was so I called a friend who was a lawyer and after explaining everything he said I would probably win in court if I took it there but that would cost more than just paying the damn gas bill.
I was so pissed that a company would treat customers, especially poor college students, like that, having to pay a $300 bill out of the blue was pretty hard since my campus job only paid $7/hour. They should have just been civil and HONEST with me and after they recieved the first gas bill from the company (yes, they were getting the bills the whole year) they should have notified me that they screwed up and I would have been annoyed but it would not have been a huge deal and then I could have budgeted to pay the bill monthly. Instead I got stuck with a suprise $300 at the end of the year.
So thanks Horizon, I hope your shady business practices and sue first, ask questions later policy results in you going out of business for good. EVERYONE IN THE CHICAGO AREA STAY AWAY FROM HORIZON MANAGEMENT PROPERTIES OR YOU MAY EXPERIENCE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO WHAT I DID!
Everything I stated is true, so just try and sue me for libel you bastards.
Re:!thoughtcrime (Score:3, Interesting)
How is this "thought crime?" "Thought" implies "non published thought." If I WRITE DOWN my thoughts and someone sues me for libel, that isn't thought crime.
No, "thought" implies "something you think", that's it. It does not imply that you have never expressed this thought in any fixed format.
The term "thoughtcrime" comes from 1984, where the Thought Police did *not* have mind-reading powers (this was of course considered their holy grail). "Thoughtcrime" was the crime of having unacceptable thoughts/beliefs, but that crime was discovered via things you said or wrote or did. Yet even though they only knew you had the thought because you expressed it out loud, you were still punished for the thought itself.
That's what "thoughtcrime" means. Being punished for your thoughts. How others become aware of those thoughts is largely immaterial. In a world where we cannot read thoughts, your version where thoughtcrime can only exist if the thought remains unexpressed means that thoughtcrime could not exist at all.
Both of these people were perfectly free to think their opinions all they wanted. They got in trouble when they wrote them down for a significant amount of other people to see.
Well that's certainly true in the case of the lady with the moldy apartment. It has nothing to do with thoughtcrime because it's libel, which is explicitly about publishing malicious statements not thinking them.
The other case it isn't so clear. Certainly she was fired because she published something that was politically embarrassing to her boss. What isn't clear is how her boss would have reacted if she had expressed her opinion privately to him that she thought the President is "O-dumb-a". It's possible he would have found that unacceptable and dismissed her. So the question is, was she fired for publishing her opinion, or was she fired for her opinion, which her employer discovered thanks to her publishing it? The latter could conceivably be called "thoughtcrime".
Excepting that it wasn't a crime, of course... The term "Thoughtcrime" wasn't coined to describe just any consequence of holding an opinion. Having people think you're an idiot because of what you think isn't making you a "thoughtcriminal", it's called people forming their own opinions of you. If that person is your boss, and especially if your job is a political appointment, you better expect their to be consequences for them thinking you're an idiot. So I definitely agree with you that ultimately neither of things warrant the "thoughtcrime" tag.
Re:it was only a matter of time (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:it was only a matter of time (Score:3, Interesting)
i figure Obama isn't black, as black suggests being a descendant of slaves.
It does? When did this global enslavement of black people occur?
Re:Talk about your catch 22 (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously? You're going to use the L word?
'Cause I'm a small government low spending balanced budget fiscal conservative, you bloody moron.
But you know what? Keep on making that tent smaller, you ignoramus -- I'm sure Obama would love 8 years in office, and I bet Biden would get a kick out of being president too.