India To Put All Citizen Info In a Central Database 132
Oracle Goddess writes "As part of a project to issue ID cards for all 1.1 billion of its citizens, India has announced plans to place information on every single citizen in what will be the world's second largest citizens' database. The government believes the scheme will aid the delivery of vital social services to the poorest people who often lack sufficient identification papers. It also sees the scheme as a way to tackle increasing amounts of identity fraud and theft, and, at a time of increased concern over the threat of militant violence, to boost national security and help police and law officials. 'This could be used as a security measure by the government which leaves migrant workers, refugees and other stateless people in India in limbo, without access to public services, employment and basic welfare,' said Charu Lata Hogg, an associate fellow of the Asia program at Chatham House."
Re:We are going to need this for our US healthcare (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it possible to have national taxes/benefits without a federal database? Drivers' licenses are issued by state, and each state has a database of its licensees. Federal income tax is federal, and there's a federal ID for it (SSN).
Slashdot readers, little help? If universal healthcare were implemented in the US, wouldn't we need a federal database for it?
Re:We are going to need this for our US healthcare (Score:5, Interesting)
India, sitting in B'lore and sceptical (Score:5, Interesting)
I think I know how this will work out.
I already have a national ID card which lets me vote, I have a PAN number which tracks literally every economic transaction of significance I make. They know everything about my vehicles and my travel arrangements.
Now, they're going to pay someone to build a system which correlates all this into some useless information. It'll take six years to build & cost tons of money for the government, half of which will end up being passed under the table as kickbacks and the rest with the contractors. Eventually, the system will be built and works fairly decently, but has no information about anyone who does not really volunteer it first-hand.
It'll be done, but completely useless. Some people will become rich and ... as the general attitude will be "I want less corruption or more opportunity to participate in it". A complete waste of tax payer's money, but not quite the invasion of my privacy that most people imagine.
But hell yeah, I'm going to protest. Even their incompetence can't be depended up on :)
As an Indian Citizen, I welcome this (Score:4, Interesting)
As a citizen of India, I whole-heartedly welcome this measure. One of the benefits (amongst many) is that native Indian citizens will not be marginalized by hordes of illegal immigrants who have crossed the borders of our country. That might sound callous, and yes, it indeed is, but the harsh reality is that many regions of our country have had their demographics completely changed by vast, un-checked immigration from Bangladesh and Burma. These immigrants zealously bring their religion with them - the one with the conspicuous lack of family planning or birth control and outdated ideas regarding education and treatment of women. (I assume you can guess which one)
For a country like India which is already heavily overpopulated with a severe lack of natural resources, such immigration is just breaking the elephant's back. A national identity card system will go a long way to address this severe problem.
I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures. Privacy is a valid concern, but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here. And in the hierarchy of needs, the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy.
Will the system be fool-proof? Of course not. It will be hacked - I expect it will be hacked both socially (corruption) and through technology and will definitely be misused a number of times for fake identities. The risk of misuse, however, is not a sufficient argument against the very real need for introduction of such an identity system in our country.
Re:Better than Google (Score:3, Interesting)
So sell its virtues and then tell everyone where they can sign up. Voluntarily. Make it opt-in only, so anyone who doesn't want this isn't forced to participate. In the case of minor children, let their parents decide.
You ever wonder why these systems don't fit the description I just gave you? Really, do you ever seriously think about why such voluntary participation isn't considered a basic design requirement?
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." Thomas Jefferson said that, and he's not the only person throughout history to make a similar observation.
I don't know the situation in India but if they're smart, they will be very careful to avoid the two-party system like what we have in the USA. The two parties are a duopoly designed to create significant barriers to entry in order to prevent any other political forces from taking power. Don't look at who is running for office. Look at who is sponsoring him. Then look at who's sponsoring his "opposition." Hey, that's strange, the same list of banks and corporations is sponsoring both candidates! Why, it's almost as though they don't care who wins, like they would get what they want either way!
This makes it quite difficult to "pick sane people." Speaking generally, we don't have a situation where average people who are willing to work hard can succeed in politics. We have a ruling class. It necessarily follows that their interests are not the same as those of the people.
The major difference is that I have a lot more control over whether Google knows anything about me. All I have to do is either not use their services or very carefully use their services and they aren't going to have information on me that wasn't publically available anyway. Their google-analytics site resolves to localhost on all machines/networks I control and I otherwise go out of my way to take care of this. There is no such option with government.
Not sure what you mean about erroneous articles, though that sounds like what libel/slander laws are for.
The rest involves being very careful about who your friends are. A lot of people think betrayals and such are impossible to foresee, merely because they did not have the foresight. Really though, it's not too difficult to know if you are dealing with loving people who really do have your best interests at heart. At least, not if you have ever seen what this looks like and appreciated what you saw. That's something to value and appreciate because it is right and good, and for no other reason, though it does have the side-effect of preventing the sort of scenario you are describing.
Re:It's not all bad! (Score:2, Interesting)
Go, get a driving license, ration card, voter's ID card in exchange for money if you will. If you can buy any of these identity cards you can definitely buy passport and a PAN card too. It could cost you a bit more, though.
Few years back, the Government of India started a project to implement social security number system just like in the western countries. They started accepting forms for this ambitious project. Initially, they started offering this form for people holding a PAN card. I haven't heard of any progress till now.
India needs a strong leader to see this project completed. Let's see how Nandan Nilekani helps in this regard.
Re:Better than Google (Score:1, Interesting)
We're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we've lost sight of the basic truth: it matters who you get into government, and how willing they are to fight back corruption (entropy). We can't regulate government into sanity. But we can pick sane people, although mass media democracy isn't so good at that..
Please don't lump everyone in with the anglos. The rest of the western world doesn't share your extreme paranoia about ID cards. Thanks, a (continental) EU citizen.
Great Idea. Won't Work. (Score:2, Interesting)
I read the news and was quite impressed by it. It seems like a great idea, having basic information about the citizens available, and being able to provide better service using it. And if implemented it will be a great help for the people too, being able to have a single ID to serve as their Ration cards, Voter ID, PAN cards, Driving license, Electricity bill payments etc.
The most immediate problem however is that the infrastructure to utilize this kind of information is absent, and is not going to be widely available for several years to come. The vital social services that the govt. intends to provide to the poorest are not in a very good shape, and identity information is the least of the problems. The IT infrastructure required to facilitate interactions via IDs is limited to big cities.
I don't have much concern about the breach of privacy. I expose several orders of magnitude greater information about myseff on internet and social networks than what the govt. plans to collect. And this information has been collected through National Population Census since several decades. It will just be more accessible now.
Also, how are they going to generate and distribute these ID cards? In a country of over a billion people, where a significant portion of the population doesn't even have voter ID cards, its going to add several layer of more bureaucracy, corruption and red tape. As someone already pointed out, they don't have any means to enforce it on those who don't want it, and the middle class will be the one to suffer the most.
At the risk of sounding defeatist, I still maintain, its a nice idea, but both impractical and premature.