German Member of Parliament Joins Pirate Party 246
Political Observer writes "Jörg Tauss, a member of the German Parliament (Bundestag), left the Social Democratic Party (SPD), which is part of the coalition government, and announced that he is joining the German Pirate Party (Google translation; original German article). Tauss resigned from the SPD after all but four of the party's members voted for a new censorship law, which passed the parliament on Thursday. The law, which aims at reducing child pornography, introduces an infrastructure for DNS-based content blocking and is the subject of major criticism from Internet users. In March 2009 Tauss became the subject of investigations by the German police for possession of child pornographic material. He said he had this material only for research as part of his role as a member of parliament. Investigations are still continuing."
Well done (Score:3, Insightful)
If this kind of thing happens more often, the general public might actually get to hear about it.
Whenever I ask them, most of the people I know have heard about the Pirate Bay guys being found guilty and
very little else. Most news stories we get here (in the UK) are very biased whenever these kinds of stories even appear.
ID Cards are barely mentioned, censorship & privacy stories are generally ignored unless its got the usual terrorists/paedophile
angle.
Well done Germany (Score:1, Insightful)
Seems Europe is starting to get better at that whole "democracy" concept than we are.
No one here's buying it. (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't need to DL a bunch of kiddie pr0n to study it nor do you do it without informing any police organisation before doing so, if only to prevent any mistaken ideas, much less prevent duplication of work and chasing down useless paths.
Tauss has very good representation who know how to take advantage of a few laws here in Germany which more or less allow public figures to buy their way out of a courtroom.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:5, Insightful)
You've never downloaded 'questionable' material just to see what was the problem with it? BDSM, bukkake, bestiality, snuff films, coprophagia and yes, even child porn have passed through my hard-drives, even though I find all of them disgusting.
I'd post anonymously but frankly, I don't give a fsck, it's been years since I've had any of that stuff and if some cop decided to tap my internet connection they'd only see download of various patches and traffic from the odd online game. Perhaps he's lying, perhaps he's not, but his statement doesn't sound too far-fetched so I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, how absurd. Obviously if he looked at these images he is a sadistic pedophile and was about to attack children any second. He also apparently texted the word "geil" so we know exactly what he was thinking.
Of course law enforcement can look at these images for several hours a day and no one is harmed, and we also know they never have any improper thoughts while doing so.
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why chase pedofiles and not child molesters? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I wouldn't say that. Have you ever googled, etc. for child porn just to see how easily you can actually find it in the Internet? I am turned on by older women than I am but I have still done that. It wouldn't even be very far fetched claim to say that you could save some of the stuff as example even if you aren't turned on by it. Unless we know exact details of the material on his computer, how it got there and most importantly, if anyone profited from that and if anyone got hurt... We know nothing.
Besides, I always wonder... Why do people act as if pedophiles were horrible people. It is sexual preference that they might not be able to change themselves. What matters is if they let anyone get hurt because of that. Child molesters should be hunted down, as should people who acquire child porn in a way that it causes more injuries to children (IE: Buys it and people who produce it will gain more motivation to produce more). But people who just download it from peer to peer networks without anyone profitting or getting hurt more because of that download? Hell, it might even prevent some child abusement cases.
And yeah.. If you really think that public figure could tell police "I'll download some child porn but I'll just tell you beforehand" without massive scandals...
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:4, Insightful)
And what has been predicted is now becoming reality, in Germany at least: child pornography is being used as the excuse to institute state censorship on the Internet. It's already been mentioned as a reason why citizens shouldn't be allowed cryptography or anynomity on the Net. They might take away those liberties to prevent kiddie porn with everyone cheering them on, since in the fight for that cause, anything goes at the moment. But it will not stop there.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:5, Insightful)
Whatever his reasons, I'm not sure that it helps to have somebody being investigated for such material as a supporter of change. If he gets convicted then it becomes a case of "see, only pedophiles and perverts would oppose this law!"
This is NOT good news (Score:0, Insightful)
These are the worst news regarding any piracy party i've ever heard.
A politician who is charged with possesion of child pornography gets outraged with a law trying to combat child pornography, and then goes on to join a party trying to fight against these censorship laws on completely different grounds.
From this day on, the german Piracy Party will be regarded as a Pervert Party.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:1, Insightful)
Agreed. But that's only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this principle. The much larger issue is that thoughts and looks are being treated as criminal acts, when in fact, then can be the exact opposite, or anything on a spectrum in-between. Treating actions as a crime is one thing, but treating looking at something as a crime is entirely different. And yes, I'll post anonymously, because even otherwise rational people can be completely psychotic about the whole kiddie porn issue. If I was more of a conspiracy theorist I'd even say it's as if the powers that be have encouraged people to hate the idea beyond all rationality, so they have some way to distract people from other issues, like their own ACTS of corruption.
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:5, Insightful)
so if i'm a scientist, and i'm doing pharmaceutical research, can i use that as my excuse for a small mountain of cocaine on my coffee table?
What it means is, if cocaine is "bad" but the law outlaws all white powders, then yes having a non-cocaine white powder which is illegal as it violates the cocaine law, would be perfectly fine. (Yes, for you too!)
Throwing everyone in jail who has white powder, under cocaine laws, is BAD (and exactly what happens)
Using the USA as an example, as I don't know the legal age over there, here it is 18 years old. Adjust the numbers accordingly for your country...
If I have pictures of a 17 year 11 month 28 day old girl, and/or next to it a 23 year old girl who looks 17, both of which are illegal under the law and will get me sent to prison as a child porn distributer, that should be fine. (Just like in your example)
I'm not saying anything about what he does or does not have. I don't know. I wasn't there.
But when the government claims he had child porn, I have proof that in 99.(high number) percent of the time it is NOT child porn and just a smear campaign, I will firmly side with the idea that "The government just told a horrible life ruining lie" instead of think they have anything to do with child porn. I have decades and tens of thousands of court cases to back up my default assumption, out of 4-5 that turned out to be real child porn possessors of prepubescent children.
(This also might be a USA thing too) Just as when a police officer claims they tasered that 7 year old boy because it was their "last option", i instantly do not believe them. Under such rare cases would that be the case, that I now dismiss all of them as bullshit, even on that one in a hundred years time it WAS the last option.
Here, tasering for no cause happens so many times a day, that there is no possible way for a sane rational human being to believe it.
As much as I hate people that abuse children, at that ratio, everyone ever arrested for it needs released.
That will not do, as real pedophiles need to be in jail. Thus, to keep tens of thousands of innocent people out of jail, AND to keep real pedophiles in jail, the only solution is to fix the broken laws. THAT is what needs done.
The odds are in favor of this man doing nothing wrong, and the government using their ole staple lie to ruin the life of someone they don't like. The odds they actually managed to catch a real pedophile are too low.
Unlike you, I will wait for proof to be found.
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:5, Insightful)
...And if your job is to revise these laws of course no one would ever go see what is out there to see if its really that bad. No not anyone.
You don't seem to get it. The truth doesn't matter when it comes to the child porn hunts. It is most definitely a case of "guilty until proven innocent" -- and even once you produce that evidence of innocence, you're still screwed for life.
Weird move (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not like the Pirate Party is the only german party that is against these laws. In fact, only the 2 largest parties voted for it.
I would assume he hopes to get rid of these new laws and that he would stand better chances at it by joining a larger party.
So why would he join exactly the Pirate Party?
Maybe the cops just called him and told him that they did not only find CP on his computer but also an illegally downloaded Britney Spears album!
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:5, Insightful)
Right. I don't look at the stuff either, but most people assume that people who do view it are ruthless predators - who are one step away from snatching a kid from the park - without taking into account that it's possible that some people child porn imagining themselves to be the kid and not the adult.
MILF and schoolteacher fantasies anyone? Schoolgirl fantasies? Maybe schoolgirl costumes should be banned because every guy who buys one for his wife or halloween date is a sadistic pedophile.
While we're at it, let's assume that every chick who wears a schoolgirl outfit, or every horny boy who imagines banging his hawt teacher are not indulging fantasies known to be normal since antiquity. Let's assume that they are disturbed and confused and should seek counseling along with heavy doses of behavior modification and the stigma associated with victimhood! [/sarcasm]
As an aside, I find it disturbing that many folks are afraid to post the words "child pornography" on slashdot without obfuscating it to CP or ch*ld pr0n even while anonymous.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:5, Insightful)
Quite frankly, unless he's actually paying for it, or otherwise actually contributing to child abuse, I really don't care. Simple possession, if not a completely victimless crime, is certainly very close to being one.
Also, what exactly does "child pornography" mean? Does a 17 year old girl qualify? How about a 14 year old boy? I wish I made porn when I was 14...
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:5, Insightful)
You can study the effects of victimization on children without personally witnessing the act, just like we do with any other crime.
Right. And this has to do with child porn possession how? Especially when child porn can be legally defined as not even real children (!) just things drawn to seem underage. By that arguement every time someone views "adult" porn they are raping a porn actress (or actor). We know that not to be true. CP possession is effectively a victimless crime. Please tell me who gets harmed whenever someone downloads something legally defined as CP over the internet for no fee. Really, does someone get raped again for every time someone views it? If I watch an execution does that mean the person gets killed every time you watch it? By all means, prosecute and criminalize the production and possibly even the buying of it for profit, but simple possession of images that may or may not even be a real child being harmed in any way, should not be a crime especially when not explicitly asked for (for example someone being charged when they downloaded a huge zip file of porn with 1 or 2 underage people).
And please, tell me how you get across the problem of hearsay when you can't actually look at the pictures? Do you agree with the total prohabition of alcohol just because someone told you that alcohol may have had some influence in someone wrecking a car? But no way that you would ever drink alcohol nor read a study on it. And really, the logic of "they are reading CP that means that automatically makes them a predator" makes as much sense as someone who reads erotic fiction as going to carry out those acts.
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Another argument on the child porn thing is to ask the question, what percentage of all child abuse has to do with child porn? Last time I checked into it, the most generous number I could come up with was a tenth of a percent. A hundred million children in the world live on the streets. Child prostitution is common in developing countries. Child labor exploitation is common. Trafficking in enslaved children is common.
If what is being done to cure child porn is one tenth of one percent of all the money and effort and compromise being put into solving the other 99.9% of suffering experienced by children, then we could say that what is being done is rational. So check it out. Is that the case? No, not even remotely. Much *more* money is being spent combating child porn than any of the other ills that befall children in the world.
So then it's clear that the new and draconian crackdown on child porn actually has nothing to do with protecting children.
CP should be freely available to save the children (Score:5, Insightful)
Child molesters should be hunted down, as should people who acquire child porn in a way that it causes more injuries to children (IE: Buys it and people who produce it will gain more motivation to produce more). But people who just download it from peer to peer networks without anyone profitting or getting hurt more because of that download? Hell, it might even prevent some child abusement cases.
Exactly! If you believe RIAA's theory, then by downloading CP for free you are discouraging the production of CP!
Think of the number of children that can be saved if everyone spreads CP everywhere so no one will pay for it! Wouldn't that cause billions of damages to CP producers? To save children from abuse, the law should mandate the spread of CP instead of making it illegal!
By making CP illegal and thus creating a monopoly for illegal CP producers, the law could be hurting more children than it presumably saves.
Re:Well done Germany (Score:1, Insightful)
Maybe when your country actually begins to behave democratically you may have a leg to stand on. As it stands now you just pass laws that won't be obeyed by people you wish to marginalise and then strike them off the voting register. In a democracy EVERYBODY gets to vote, not just those that are playing by the current laws. But I guess three years of brainwashing as a government thug has left you incapable of rational evaluation of the scumbags you volunteered to murder for so I'm probably wasting my time here.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:3, Insightful)
There is a very simple test: has he categorised it into different folders?
Phillip.
Re:UPDATE! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it's horrible news and don't understand why they'd want to accept. One of the biggest issues the pirate party has had to fight is "if you got nothing to hide, you got nothing to fear". In Sweden they've spent lots and lots of time that we want privacy by closing the curtains, locking the toilet, writing letters not postcards to convince people this is perfectly normal and mass surveillance is unacceptable. For that it's crucial to come across as being a normal person who values their privacy, not a criminal looking to get away with it. How's this guy going to do that with any sort of credibility while he's being charged with kiddie porn? I'm sorry, but I think this will only hurt the pirate party's reputation around the world, even though they formally have no relation to swedish pirate party.
Re:This is NOT good news (Score:4, Insightful)
Though to be fair, perhaps states just want to avoid to get themselves into situations like Iran's government's in which forbidding internation coverage does not help you in your efforts to prevent the world from knowing what's going on all thanks to that evil, open, decentralized beast the internet is.
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, I certainly agree punishments shouldn't be anywhere near what they are today for mere possession, especially since regardless of conviction the person's life is oft-times destroyed upon mere accusation. (And as for your comparison up there, I actually think possessing videos depicting real murder should carry a similar punishment.)
Of course, as others have mentioned rational thought frequently doesn't enter the picture at all when this subject is on the table, so I see things getting worse, not better. The public hysteria has really reached a fever pitch with stuff like drawings being deemed child porn, or kids taking cell phone pics of THEMSELVES getting charged. It's classic witch hunt mentality, where you literally can't say ANYTHING against someone once they've played the pedophile card without eyes narrowing and the accusations swinging your way. "Oh, you're sticking up for the CHILD MOLESTERS, are you?! Methinks you may be one of them!"
And society's hypocrisy makes the whole thing even more ludicrous -- in the US anyway -- where the age of consent is 18 (if you're EVER attracted to anything below you're automatically pure evil -- no ifs, ands, or buts), and yet models regularly start their careers at 13/14, and marketing and media bombards us with idealized images of youth around the clock.
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:5, Insightful)
The rest of us would be less inclined to take random stranger's opinions at face value, thank you.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:3, Insightful)
This rocked me to my core.
There is no case of possession of child pornography that does not merit thorough investigation and very few that do not merit prosecution.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:2, Insightful)
Bust the sick fuck who made the content and bust the next layer of people who paid for or profited from the content.
After that, we hit the slippery-slope type arguments like "people who experiment with marijuana will go on to use cocaine" or "people who download child porn for free via p2p will go on to be molesters".
If they pay for the shit? Okay, fair game, but you forget that the vast majority of molestations are committed by family members and other trusted associates and not creepy guys in trenchcoats sitting on the park bench, eyeing little girls with bad intent (with apologies to Jethro Tull).
You are experiencing an emotional knee-jerk reaction. Respectfully, please quit watching Chris Hansen and other manufactured mass media, read a few psych books and come back after you comprehend the post you responded to.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:3, Insightful)
Neither me nor my family was directly involved but this was such a close friend we might as well have been.
Learn something about the subject before you respond in your kneejerk quasi-libertarian fashion. This is real life with real consequences, not philosophical masturbation.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you honestly not tell why someone might refer to downloading child pornography from where ever, as a completely one sided exchange, as in no way furthering the victimization of youth, given that the images already exist and no incentive is being provided for the production of more? In contrast I think it's very easy to say exactly where the victimization in your example is, and the fact that he would (my gathering) be involved in bartering of the fruits of the victimization rather than straight purchasing is irrelevant to the argument and provides a very clear incentive for continued violence.
In other words, your friend doesn't fit the definition. Leave him out of it.
Re:UPDATE! (Score:5, Insightful)
People like to skip that thing in these sorts of cases.
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:2, Insightful)
When she moved and became a paralegal, she studied case histories of all sorts of criminal activity. Did that make her secretly want to rape, kidnap, or any other things involved in the sort of research she read up on?
Would a 17 year old girl in a bikini be child prostitution? I mean, I have seen tons of underage models wearing bikinis in newspaper advertisements. But, one of the pictures that was pointed out as being child pornography in the infamous case that was splashed all across
How DOES a person determine where the line is? I have a picture of my son when he was 2 years old in his diapers. Is that pornography?
If there is a single case where a person has a strange fetish, does that automatically make any image that MIGHT trigger a fetish pornographic?
Furries probably have to suck on pure oxygen anytime they walk into Disney World, because I am sure that a six foot tall Pluto would drive them wild. Should be outlaw Disney World because they are pandering a sexual fetish to children?
Who decides what is child pornography and what is not, because Australia would really like to know. [wikileaks.org]
Re:No one here's buying it. (Score:1, Insightful)
He had a grant. He was sued for possession immediately after leaving the office that gave him that grant. See this comment for more details. [slashdot.org]
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:3, Insightful)
Quite... I still remember a few teachers and friend's mothers who could have molested me all day and the only side effect would have been my perma-grin.
Though, to be fair, I assume that the "mature woman, pubescent boy" kind of child porn is not significant in proportion to the rest.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:2, Insightful)
The biggest problem with witch hunts for child pornographers is that it's not the cold eyed brutal child rapists who tend to get caught up and prosecuted as child pornographers, it's teachers investigating student misconduct [fathermag.com], 13 year olds [fathermag.com] and high school students [ninemsn.com.au].
That the alleged pornagraphy was produced by its subject, was voluntarily distributed to the "child pornographer" or that tarring the accused with the term "child pornographer" is ludicrous seems to be no barrier to prosecution and sometimes conviction.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:3, Insightful)
JÃrg Tauss was a specialist in his party, the SPD for internet. He is from the left wing, former trade union secretary, was mostly isolated in his party and had to play according to the rules.
Just before a bill is passed in the German Parliament about child porn and content fuiltering on the internet the most vocal person in the relevant committee, JÃrg Tauss an MP is searched in his Berlin office. Even the press communicates about the search before the police does. He is taken before the committee meeting which dealt with - oh surprise - child porn. They find a package with child porn images on CD. Surprise, surprise.
I personally don't care if Tauss viewed child porn images, whatever "child porn" means. What I care about is that it is very fishy when the specialist of the party is taken out. MPs should be sacrosanct from prosecution, in particular when it overlaps with a political agenda.
How can you professionally deal with say "nazi hate literature" when you don't have tried yourself to get access to it or are in possession of the works, so you know what you are talking about. What Tauss did was a bit stupid. That is all.
Re:kiddie porn "research" (Score:3, Insightful)
In his investigation he tried to show that child porn is frequently distributed by mail order, telephone hotlines, and mobile phones again. However dealers of child porn usually require potential customers to break the law by providing illegal material themselves before trusting them [tagesschau.de].
In his hearing he admitted mistakes and he assured his innocence. He said that he had acted in the belief that he was permitted to perform such investigations as the responsible political authority.