Montana City Requires Workers' Internet Accounts 836
justinlindh writes "Bozeman, Montana is now requiring all applicants for city jobs to furnish Internet account information for 'background checking.' A portion of the application reads, "Please list any and all, current personal or business websites, web pages or memberships on any Internet-based chat rooms, social clubs or forums, to include, but not limited to: Facebook, Google, Yahoo, YouTube.com, MySpace, etc.' The article goes on to mention, 'There are then three lines where applicants can list the Web sites, their user names and log-in information and their passwords.'"
Unpopular (Score:5, Informative)
According to the online poll accompanying the article, 98% of respondents think it's an invasion of privacy.
That's as big a landslide as it gets, folks.
Pedantry (Score:3, Informative)
MO = Missouri
MT = Montana
ToS (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS?hl=en [google.com]
6. Your passwords and account security 6.1 You agree and understand that you are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of passwords associated with any account you use to access the Services. 6.2 Accordingly, you agree that you will be solely responsible to Google for all activities that occur under your account.
5.6 You agree that you are solely responsible for (and that Google has no responsibility to you or to any third party for) any breach of your obligations under the Terms and for the consequences (including any loss or damage which Google may suffer) of any such breach.
Facebook's terms of service are just as strict.
4.6 You will not share your password, let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account.
I for one would not give that information and would suspect that the City is in violation of some law or other and that my providing usernames and passwords to these accounts would constitute my violation of terms of service and would get me in lots more trouble.
Re:They really understand what they are asking for (Score:4, Informative)
Judging by TFA, it was apparently vetted by their city attorney. Maybe even written by him.
Oh, wait. Anyone with a clue. Never mind. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along, move along.
Re:This can't be legal (Score:1, Informative)
Why should they have to supply it? To make it easier for the Government to obtain information it has no right to obtain.
I can only imagine someone thinking this will make it easier for them to fire/litigate dissidents, and that's the only reason it became "company" policy.
Re:I call FUD (Score:5, Informative)
Re:City jobs are a bad thing? (Score:2, Informative)
You know what to do (Score:5, Informative)
I've just contacted the Montana ACLU Here [aclumontana.org]
The article links to a video interview with Greg Sullivan Bozeman City Attorney here [montanasnewsstation.com] (right side of page), who defends the policy.
His Contact info:
City Attorney Greg Sullivan gsullivan@bozeman.net 406-582-2309
What I just emailed off to Mr. Sullivan
Greg Sullivan
Your city's requirement for job applicants to provide a list of all personal internet memberships, logins, and passwords has recently come to my attention. I have just requested that the Montana ACLU investigate this policy as it seems a severe invasion of privacy. I have always appreciated the state of Montana's noble defense of the Constitution, exemplified with recent decisions by the state to support 2nd amendment rights. Your city's applicant policy is the exact opposite of what I'd expect from the state of Montana, and I would urge you to seriously reconsider this requirement.
Re:WTF (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I call FUD (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, it gets worse. The application has a "survey" portion at the end which requests things that are technically forbidden: age, race/ethnicity, disability. Everyone should read it, it's kinda comical...under "race/ethnicity" it says "check the one category which best describes your recognition in your community"...White (not Hispanic or Latino), Black or African American (Not Hispanic or Latino), Hispanic or Latino...a couple more, then this gem: Two or More Races (Not Hispanic or Latino)....w...t...f...who the hell came up with this? Oh, and if you do look at it...try to figure out what I'd pick if I came from the middle east...no option for Iranians and Syrians...Or, how about somewhere in, say, Kazakhstan? They don't really exist, do they?
They even ask if the applicant has violated any criminal law or -traffic- regulations within the last five years! Here's a flashlight, want me to drop my pants, too?
Pure offense...that's all I can say.
Re:WTF (Score:5, Informative)
Depending on the union, you may just be exchanging one set of meaningless crap for another... like the union person at a conference I attended recently in which he couldn't leave the side of the computer unlocked so that people could plug cards in for testing purposes. He had to stand around for an hour and a half just in case he needed to unlock it. Or the TV unions in which you have your job and if you even touch a piece of equipment that's not on your list---even outside of work hours to lean how to use it---instant union grievance. Of course, the people who aren't jackasses poke fun at this and laugh about it, but there are enough people who take it seriously and crack the whip that it can make life for the workers genuinely unpleasant. And so on.
If unions were solely about collective bargaining, were entirely run by regular full-time workers (without significant time off for being the union boss or whatever), and were not designed around bizarre apprenticeship models dating back to the middle ages, there's no question but what unions would be great for workers. Unfortunately, enough unions stray far enough outside those lines that in many cases they are a worse taskmaster than the companies from which they are supposedly trying to protect you.
Re:WTF (Score:2, Informative)
I had to do a bunch of tech installs for the USDA back in 1997, we were putting network cards into Windows 3.11 Machines, installing Netscape, network printing, and 10 Mbit networking was being wired in all the offices.
Until I hit Bozeman, the site had already been done by the local USDA the year before as a technology demonstrator, it was 100 Mbit everywhere. They told us to pack up our crap and take it elsewhere. Nice town, friendly folks, I still have pictures from that trip.
The folks in Butte, Miles City and Minot did not have 100 Mbit.
Re:City jobs are a bad thing? (Score:2, Informative)
...What choices does a poor, non-owning class person actually have in a purely free market system?....
If the choice is to work hard, deprive oneself and save religiously. My father-in-law came over with his family as a poor immigrant and was in debt for his fare and that of his family. By the time he died in a car crash he had accumulated considerable wealth and taken care of his children.
Many immigrants came to this country and took hold of the opportunities. Some of them became very wealthy, not by inheritance, but by old-fashioned hard work and sometimes a bit of luck. Even still today, although less so than in the past, it is still possible for a worker to become an owner and then provide work for others.
Re:WTF (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, enough unions stray far enough outside those lines that in many cases they are a worse taskmaster than the companies from which they are supposedly trying to protect you.
That's been my experience in the one union I was in. My working relationship with my employer was great...until the group went union (it was a done deal by the time I started working there). At that point, my boss became paranoid about being grieved for anything and everything, and therefore, the freedom I had had to just do what needed to be done disappeared. Two examples: 4-10 work weeks ("No, the Collective Bargaining Agreement specifies 5-8s for your position") and combining two 15 minute breaks and the 30 minute lunch break into a single lunch break of 1 hour ("No, the Collective Bargaining Agreement says that you have to be given a 15 minute break after 2 hours, a 30 minute lunch at four hours and another 15 minute break at 6 hours").
The Collective Bargaining Agreement that governs your workplace is truly a double-edged sword. It limits what your employer can require you to do, but it also limits what your employer can allow you to do as well.
Re:WTF (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Past experience - healthcare records (Score:3, Informative)
Do you really, I mean really care about whether they had your slashdot password? Now if they asked about your bank account and/or Social Security number, that might be something else again.
Yes, I do care. I care for two reasons, general principle, and the fact that my postings to Slashdot is a small part of my general online identity, which does matter to me somewhat. Sure /. wouldn't be as bad giving them my Facebook/MySpace passwords, since those have private components, like personal mail, and easy access to my real life friends that allows someone else to impersonate me. With services like Facebook, asking for your password is basically like your employer asking permission to read your private email. This is bad. I don't even think I need to enumerate why, even.
Imagine walking into a job interview, and having to bring all your mail for the last 3 years.
Re:WTF (Score:3, Informative)
That was the case for one person who applied for employment with the City. The anonymous viewer emailed the news station recently to express concern with a component of the city's background check policy, which states that to be considered for a job applicants must provide log-in information and passwords for social network sites in which they participate.
They did not provide a reference to this "component of the city's background check policy" anywhere. There's nothing here to say a password is required.
The requirement is included on a waiver statement applicants must sign, giving the City permission to conduct an investigation into the person's "background, references, character, past employment, education, credit history, criminal or police records."
So assuming they got a copy of this waiver statement, all they can say for sure is that the city can do a background check. Again, nothing that confirms that login information is required.
"Please list any and all, current personal or business websites, web pages or memberships on any Internet-based chat rooms, social clubs or forums, to include, but not limited to: Facebook, Google, Yahoo, YouTube.com, MySpace, etc.," the City form states.
So they saw the form, and they still can't quote specific text where it asks for a password?
There are then three lines where applicants can list the Web sites, their user names and log-in information and their passwords.
Or maybe they give a place to list websites, and a certain overzealous reporter decided that they also mean "private login information"? If you read the comments from the official interviewed, there's nothing there to give the impression that he's being asked about login credentials either.
It's certainly possible that the "reporter" is correct, but there's nothing cited in the article which says that he's doing anything more than a) taking a complaint from an anonymous source at face value and b) failing to do due diligence research on the topic at hand.
Re:no freaking way (Score:3, Informative)
Re:WTF (Score:4, Informative)
What does the phrase "any and all" add that the word "all" lacks by itself?
"All your base are belong to us" legally implies that if even one base is found to not belong to us, then it is possible that none of them do - the statement is false in its entirety. "Any and all of your base belong to us" means that if we accidentally let one of your bases slip through our fingers, the remainder still belong to us. To a lawyer, internet memes are full of loopholes and thus not binding.
Internet Usage Policy (Score:2, Informative)
Re:WTF (Score:3, Informative)
Re:WTF (Score:1, Informative)
No, I'm pretty sure it is illegal to ask.
Looks like there's a follow-up story (Score:3, Informative)
There's a follow-up story here [montanasnewsstation.com] which mentions, among other things, that this practice is a TOS violation for many web sites. However, nobody seems clued in yet that there may be other legal issues, like violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
Re:WTF (Score:3, Informative)
This line of thought also raises the interesting possibility of using arbitrary terms of services to shield ones self from compulsory searches, such as drug screenings at work. You're asked to pee in a cup and reply "I'm sorry, but I just signed up for website X, and it forbids me from taking a drug screening when no probable use of illicit substances is shown. Violating the terms of service would be illegal."
"Sorry you're fired."
"oh really? You're firing me for refusing to break the law? I'm pretty sure that is grounds for a lawsuit, so the question is, do you want to pay my salary in exchange for me doing work for you, or after an expensive lawsuit?"
(Note, you wouldn't be able to agree to the terms of service if an existing employee agreement already requires you to submit to random drug tests, so don't be stupid. Also, again, IANAL, so don't blame me if you get fired/don't get a job.)
Email them! (Score:1, Informative)