4735051
story
Comments: 84 +- Your Rights Online: Chinese Social Websites Go Under "Maintenance" on Wednesday June 03, @05:22PM
background: url(//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/topiccensorship.gif); width:44px; height:55px;
censorship
background: url(//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/topicinternet.gif); width:70px; height:73px;
internet
Shastri writes "After blocking several prominent social websites like Twitter, Youtube ahead of Tiananmen anniversary, by the great firewall of China, some popular social sites in China have also gone under 'maintenance'. While it is anybody's guess as to whether these events are related or purely coincidental, the announced maintenance come mostly unscheduled and last for several days might give a hint. A spreadsheet (in Chinese) is being maintained enumerating the sites that have gone down for a maintenance."
Related Stories
You know how to win a victory, Hannibal, but not how to use it.
-- Maharbal
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.
Obviously... (Score:5, Insightful)
They don't want any organised protests.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Facebook is good for organising a rickroll, but probably not ideal for revolution.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Outside of theory, nothing is ideal for anything. Use what you've got.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Last saturday in South Carolina a facebook group organized a 200 person strong group of teenagers to go out attack a store clerk and pull out and beat up a family in a car.
Really? Tragic, horrible, an abomination. Surely a 200 person mob attacking innocent victims must have made the news by Sunday, which would be the 31st. I know that a +2 Interesting mod means it MUST be true, but let's check....
Google news tells me the only stories for the 30th and 31st containing "South", "Carolina" and "clerk" are: ...
* Adult Books for High School Students
* Symposium celebrates SC women through the ages
* Waiting on death row: In 7 brutal cases, killers deserve sentences
* Incompetenc
Re: (Score:2)
They don't want any organised protests.
They just want to install their own plugin to the databases.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Right to peaceful protest: No.
Right to choice of political persuation: No.
Right to choice of religion: No.
Right to have children: No.
Re: (Score:2)
Right to peaceful protest: There are hundreds of peaceful protests a year throughout China, ranging in size from single individuals up to groups of hundreds. While I'm no legal expert, it seems to me the relevant differences between Chinese and, say, US laws governing peaceful assembly are that the Chinese government can be a bit more nebulous in denying permits, and that protests espousing illegal activities or undermining social harmony are not tolerated. Now, one might (and p
I, for one, welcome our idiocy-blocking overlords (Score:5, Funny)
After blocking several prominent social websites like Twitter
Thank you!
Freedom is so overrated.
Re:I, for one, welcome our idiocy-blocking overlor (Score:4, Interesting)
Babelfish + http://bbs.linyueru.com/ [linyueru.com]
You have no right to carry on the current operation, because this possible below one of reasons to create
The great Great Wall starts to assume an awe-inspiring pose, closes the forum to lie low until something blows over temporarily.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
To quote Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose".
While China is economically prosperous, I wonder how many people in China are doing better now than they were 10 years ago. If the majority aren't doing better, they are in serious trouble. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon enough.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Well, from 1958-61, an estimated 20-40 million people starved to death. Those events are still firmly in many people's memories. So while "prosperous" might not be the best word to describe most people, anybody middle aged or older has seen some fairly large improvements, materially, in their lives, and generally feel that the younger generation has an even brighter future.
Re: (Score:2)
There is a social contract between the government and the people that the government will return increasing prosperity to the people. The present growth of China
Re: (Score:2)
Solidarity? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Solidarity? (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
What the grandparent says is true. For example, you can look at this link from the spreadsheet:
http://www.oncoding.net/64.jpg [oncoding.net]
It is clearly a message of solidarity. As someone who lives in China, I can tell you it's also a CYA thing of course, but the grandparent is spot on.
LS
Re: (Score:2)
It is clearly a message of solidarity.
An article in the Wall Street Journal (http://blogs.wsj.com/chinajournal/2009/06/02/twitter-goes-down-in-china/ [wsj.com]) says, "A Twitter spokeswoman didn't have an immediate comment and couldn't confirm whether the service was blocked in China." while Australian news media (http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25581519-5001028,00.html [news.com.au]) report, "A Microsoft official said Tuesday its Bing.com, Live.com and Hotmail.com sites were among several to have been blocked for customers in China."
Doesn't soun
Interesting what happens (Score:3, Interesting)
...when governments realize that the truth of what they are actually doing will shock, disgust, appall their people.
IMHO free flowing information is what ultimately caused taking down the Berlin wall.
Now, that we know that our governments torture, steal, abuse their power, serve the money-printing oligarchy instead of serving us, what are we going to do?
I guess... http://www.flickr.com/photos/andreinla/235687297/ [flickr.com]
and
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andreinla/3135176066/ [flickr.com]
Re:Interesting what happens (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, going bankrupt is what brought the wall down.
Parent
Re:Interesting what happens (Score:5, Interesting)
Generally, people don't mind so much if it's only an idea 'out there', instead of a concrete idea that they're dealing with.
Now, that we know that our governments torture, steal, abuse their power, serve the money-printing oligarchy instead of serving us, what are we going to do?
It's historically only been the observant people who protest, and oddly enough, they're also the first people who are silenced. Consider extortion, fear of material security, censorship, etc.
As an observant person also, I see people pulling strings. A chinese proverb comes to mind (paraphrased): when the government becomes corrupt or unstable, go to the mountains. It makes sense when you think about it, because the insular safety and security of a remote location is an ideal thing for a family lineage.
Granted, the possibility of us doing so is much smaller, because we (as an intellectual group of people) tend to stick to the population centers. However, we can move. We -can- move out of the nation to find political stability. We -can- have a hand not in fighting a system going downhill, but in building a system going uphill.
Parent
Xiaonei censorship (Score:4, Informative)
So I was hoping to announce this to my Chinese friends, but looks like on Xiaonei, you're not allowed to write http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/chinese_websites_under_mainten.php [danwei.org], äå½ç½'ç(TM)çæS, tiananmen, or the link to the spreadsheet. If you do, it gives you the following error: "èäè¦å'åfæ"æææYå...å®ãèæf...å...å®ãåäsåå'Sæ-å...ä-äæå½"å...å®" (no politically sensitive stuff, porn, or ads, etc.)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Just tried it too, same error. "Please don't post anything related to politics, etc....."
Also, Xiaonei is definitely experiencing other problems- many of my friends have reported problems with the "sharing" feature, and most also know the reason why sample response: "Oh, that's because its today, didn't you know?"
So, I think most Chinese know, or they can guess the reason why.
I'd try posting a few other things as experiments on XIaonei and Tudou, but I'd rather not risk getting my visa revoked, thanks.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"Chinese Internet Maintenance Day"???
Man, they celebrate weird holidays, don't they?
Seriously, though, that would make a good passive-aggressive protest t-shirt (a la Free Tibet).
When in doubt.... (Score:2)
Are the Chinese bwing counterproductive here? (Score:4, Interesting)
At a certain point, does shutting down various websites and muzzling the press have the opposite effect than intended? Will anger over shutdown websites have those not in the know to ask what happened on this day, and is this something worth clamping down on by the government? In other words does a government working too hard to suppress knowledge and direct opinions go too far and have the opposite effect and cause unfavorable results? Also, there are many Chinese factory workers that make all sorts of nice, legitimate products that they can't afford because they would need three months of their wages to buy it. Wouldn't it make you a bit angry, especially if you worked 60 hours a week, with few other benefits?
Additionally, mainstream historians are currently of the opinion that what ended communist governments in Eastern Europe had little to do with Ronald Reagan's bluster. Instead, the current theory roughly goes that instead the citizens just got tired of the government became discontented, and found less overt ways to protest or rebel and eventually the unrest and general lack of popular support caused the government to collapse. Sorry, Reagan is God fans and libertarians, but large scale armed resistance or large scale protests will probably not happen in China and the final result will not be a libertarian paradise.
Go ahead and let CCP censor the whole world. . . (Score:2, Interesting)
You are confusing facts with attitudes. (Score:4, Insightful)
Your mistake here is thinking that these "middle class" Chinese people are not aware of Tiananmen/June 04. Indeed they all know about it, and are still supportive of the government's action. These people are voluntarily chosing to supress dissent and bring down their own blogs to support their government. They are being "patriotic" and that is the attitude, which you have to work to change.
The whole thing is kind of similar to the Iraq War issue over here. My liberal friends think that none of the war supporters are aware of the "Missing WMDs" and related issues. They brandish these as some kind of a trump card, thinking that the moment they mention "missing WMD," any supporter will change their mind. Of course that never actually happens as the other side sees these facts as no big deal. We all agree on the facts, it's just that we disagree on their meaning and context. (Another example: Clinton blowjob/impeachment. We all got the same facts, yet there is a wide disagreement about their significance.)
Or consider forced abortions in China. While injecting formaldehyde into a fetus is highly objectionable to most people in the West, a typical Chinese person will find it a "regrettable" yet appropriate means for population control. They would tell you that the parents were to blame for an unauthorized conception, and the abortion was needed to maintain peace, prosperity, equality, whatever. You need to help the Chinese place knowledge into its proper context, not simply "add it to every message."
Parent
Re:You are confusing facts with attitudes. (Score:4, Informative)
Your mistake here is thinking that these "middle class" Chinese people are not aware of Tiananmen/June 04. Indeed they all know about it, and are still supportive of the government's action.
A lot of the people who know about it only know a sanitised version of events ("a bunch of students tried to incite a violent dangerous and unjust revolution and the army valiantly stopped their attempt to damage society" or some such), not the whole truth. Many will guess that there was more to it, many will know there is (through information sources not controlled by the government), but many more will not or will not let themselves be interested enough to enquire in case such an enquiry gets them marked as a troublesome individual.
Parent
This is more like a silent protest (Score:5, Interesting)
This "maintenance' was done by the webmasters themselves. When you look at the spreadsheet most websites are not that popular and created by hobbyists. Furthermore they stated that they participated voluntarily. Some of the messages are really interesting:
thequietsnow.com:
Due to a reason we all know this site is presently under maintenannce.
The site will be under non-technical maintenance from 3. Juin to 6. Juin
[...]
For a harmonious environment, to make an appeal to create a harmonious sociaty, I advice all webmasters and internet users to do the following during maintenance period;
1. Go out for a walk, get some fresh air, due to the hot weather, please wear a white t-shirt
2. Since the current internet is extremely unharmonious, in order to create a healty and harmonious internet environment, please put all your websites into "maintenance state", in oder to provide a better net environment
3. If you don't want to put your site into "maintenance state", please change your site into black and white colors, in oder to provide a better net environment
4. Please put your site onto the maintenance spreedsheat.
whenn.net:
Long live the harmony~~~
Due to a reason we all know
In order to supress my extremely unharmonious thoughts
this blog voluntarily will go under "technical and non-technical maintenance"
passcd.com
Just says "20" on the page
So really, this "maintenance day" is a good sign. It makes a lot of net users aware of the event, since a lot of young Chinese haven't been confronted with this event a lot. This hopefully makes them to think more...
On xiaonei, many statuses get blocked, too, with the warning not to post "politically sensitive" content. Being in Tsinghua as an international student, I've seen Chinese students testing and changing their statuses with messages like "Democracy, Freedom, CCP, ..." It was shortly after midnight that Xiaonei.com even crashed for a while due to the massive status changes. But it seems to me the young generation sees this testing more as a game and really doesn't grasp the seriousness.
What really striked me was that one status saying "In memory of 8^2 5!/3! years" got deleted on xiaonei... (You math and comp sci nerds can figure the hidden message out ;) )
Another thing I've noted is how pointless it is to talk with Chinese about their politics. They are extremely sensitive and immediately get defensive. A hong kong girl was talking about this event with a mainland student and she became very agitated. The chinese guy was absolutely overwhelmed by the critics, didn't know how to react (he was the only chinese in a group of international students) and immediately started to defend the government's action, saying things like sometimes politics has to use violence to achieve it's goal... (basically implying that they did the right thing)
Anyway, I just hope that, untill China finally faces this event correctly, people in other countries will do all their efforts not to let it become forgotten.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It's the 20th anniversary of a certain event. I had expected something fairly flashy to originate from the online communities. You can think of this a moment of silence, if you'd like.
Re: (Score:2)
Purely Coincidental. (Score:5, Interesting)
Not.
Chinese internet users aren't stupid, they know what is going on. In many cases, all it does is call attention to the anniversary, perhaps more than would have been paid otherwise.
In any case, most Chinese I know seem fairly cynical about it. A translated conversation from Xiaonei, in response to a blog post by a friend about the economic crisis:
AAA: Well written!! But why can't I share it? (think Facebook sharing, posting a link to it on your own homepage)
BBB: Yeah, I can't share it either. Must be because it's today!
000(the author): Well, I can post it, you guys should be able to share it....
CCC: (a few comments about the actual content of the article)
DDD: I guess Xiaonei is having problems recently. Anything with numbers seems to run into problems.
AAA: Anything with certain numbers runs into problems around this time of year....
EEE: I'm sure this maintenance is perfectly normal, as it is for all other Chinese websites right now.(sarcasm)
BBB: There is no spoon~~! (this in English)
FFF: Wow, nice word choice guys.
Bad translation, there was a good pun or two in there I couldn't figure out how to translate. In any case, they're masters at not using any words censors would find suspicious. But they're all at least aware of it, even if its a minor annoyance.
And it will probably remain just that: A minor annoyance for most, perhaps making them remember, but they don't care that much. The ones that really want to protest will just use text messages or IM anyway, and even they hardcore democracy types know where the line is drawn. For the most part, it seems really unnecessary. If they really wanted to organize protests, they'd have been organized long before the 3 days before the anniversary, and then use texting or cells or IM to expand. I doubt there will be any protests to speak of anyway- the Chinese sort of have a silent agreement here, they know where to draw the line.
Parallels to the US (Score:3, Interesting)
Amazingly, there remain people, who would argue, that the US is either "the same" or "not much better", and deny, that China's human rights record is particularly bad.
I mean, just imagine, the US government shutting down Twitter [marketingvox.com] or any Leftist web-site at around, say, Iraq-invasion anniversary...
Re:Parallels to the US (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Which aspect of Cult Awareness Network [wikipedia.org]'s history do you consider "a stunning example of political censorship"? I skimmed the article briefly, but could not find anything particularly outrageous in what happened to them...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So, you seriously consider law-suits brought against a private entity by another private entity to be comparable to government shutting down web-sites to minimize anti-government protests?!..
Re: (Score:2)
Changing the topic, eh?..
Twitter is used by anti-government protesters and yet the government does not attempt to close it, not even during the spikes of protests (such as around Iraq-invasion date). Chinese web-sites, which might be used to organize a pro
If anyone is wondering about the real reason... (Score:2, Informative)
This is why [wikipedia.org]
In short, a massacre followed by a cover-up of the events.
Nothing to see here... (Score:2)
China Anniversary (Score:2)
Re:Maintenance of... (Score:5, Funny)
What do you mean? Nothing happened there 20 years ago. There was no protest and there were no tanks.
I don't know where you are getting your information from, but the Chinese government ensures me that nothing of note has ever taken place in Tianamen square.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Tour Guide: NOTHING HAPPENED! EVERYONE WAS ON VACATION! WE WERE INVITED TO POLAND!
Re: (Score:2)
We have always been at war with East-Asia.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, yes, actually. Certainly US forces have done some terrible things in Iraq, murdering innocent civilians and torturing prisoners and so on, and that's clearly bad and very damaging.
But there are two big differences between that and what the Chinese do.
One is that the US military has consistently admitted its errors and prosecuted those responsible for crimes against the people of Iraq, while China continues to pretend that nothing bad has ever happened there.
The other is that most of the bad things do
obligatory (Score:2)
Oh, and you must be new here.
Re: (Score:2)