Twitter, Flickr, Hotmail, Others Blocked In China 151
An anonymous reader writes "Two days ahead of the 20th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square 'incident,' several high profile Internet sites have been blocked in mainland China. These include Twitter.com, Flickr.com, Live.com, and Bing.com. While Internet blocks are common enough in mainland China, blocking such high-profile sites is unusual. In addition, blog reports suggest even state-owned television broadcasts are suffering multiple instances of muting lasting several seconds (again, not unusual for some foreign stations broadcast over cable, but unusual for local state-owned media) suggesting state security, online or through other technology, has tightened significantly, perhaps in anticipation or discovery of protest plans."
Re:Like Facebook in Iran During Elections (Score:5, Interesting)
Yup. There are plenty of proxies out there too, so what exactly is this going to do? Not to mention every app just mentioned can easily be run on most china phones, so it's not like people have to be in net cafes in China to do said activities.
More widespread? (Score:1, Interesting)
I am in the UK but currently experiencing disruption to some HTTPS sites. I wonder there is something more widespread going on?
Re:Retaliation (Score:3, Interesting)
Makes sense - the amount of intrusion attempts and spam coming from Chinese servers may make it worth it.
you're right and wrong (Score:3, Interesting)
Why are we buying the products of these fascist dictatorships?
Part of the answer to your first question is also availability. There are some markets where the Chinese goods have such a lock on production that it is nearly impossible to not buy something made in China.
Sure, you can buy a Chinese made widget for less than an American made widget almost without exception. However, there are times when no amount of money will buy a non-Chinese widget because no such item exists.
Furthermore, your statement
products of these fascist dictatoriships
Is itself an absurd over-simplification of the situation. Just because a product is made in China does not mean it inherently supports the Chinese government. Sure, taxes are (generally) paid but your $.99 widget almost certainly profits a greedy western capitalist much more than the Chinese government.
if you buy Chinese goods, you support oppression
Not always true. As I said, there are times that you don't have a choice in the matter. Sometimes the only way to purchase the item you need for whatever task is at hand is to purchase a Chinese made version of it. If you don't believe me then take a look through the tool section of your favorite home improvement / hardware / discount / general merchandise store. There are some items that if you need them today, you have no choice but to buy Chinese - and if your choice is to buy Chinese or allow your basement to flood with water, I have a suspicion on which way you will likely choose.
Re:Unintended consequences (Score:3, Interesting)
In 2006, the American PBS program "Frontline" broadcast a segment filmed at Peking University, many of whose students participated in the 1989 protests. Four students were shown a picture of the Tank Man, but none of them could identify what was happening in the photo. Some responded that it was a military parade, or an artwork.
From Wikipedia, but still illustrates the point, young people in China don't know much about the Tienanmen Square incident unless they get it from hearsay or from people abroad. How often does the Kent State incident come up in day to day conversation for you? Would you even know about it if you weren't taught about it in a Modern US History class? How many Americans would look at you confused if you started talking about an incident where the US military shot and killed unarmed US civilians?
Re:What are we doing? (Score:3, Interesting)
...if you buy Chinese goods, you support oppression.
Yeah, but where do you think we get the $$ to buy that Chinese crap? Take a look at our national debt and the debt-holders. We're buying Chinese crap using $$ borrowed from the Chinese. It's a very dysfunctional, but symbiotic, relationship. Look up codependency. And our financial overlords (with whom I do not necessarily agree) seem to think that we need to keep buying this crap to sustain our culture.
The only solution I see is a huge culture change (but that's terribly difficult to effect - If you can figure it out, please do.)
Back on-topic, this sucks. I've got a lot of respect for the Chinese people, but their government is miserable. And they seem to be too big and disconnected to really shake things up. Events like Tiananmen Square make big news and show the world that they're trying, but don't really seems to affect the way things run day-to-day. I'd love to drop some pamphlets instructing citizens on methods for proxying out through the great Chinese firewall...
Re:Like Facebook in Iran During Elections (Score:1, Interesting)
This is only a half-hearted attempt, so they can say they prevent the flow of dangerous ideas. The real thing keeping people in check is their standard of living. In recent years lots of people have a better life in China. Especially people in cities. According to reports young Chinese don't really care about Tiananmen, because they can buy stuff which makes them happy.
The easiest way to control people is turning them into consumers. A consumer don't really care about anything until he can consume what he wants. It's a great way to keep people from thinking.
For those who haven't noticed: the same thing is happening in the West
I disagree. The rise of the middle class (ie, the class of consumers) is an important part of every modern democracy. I think the Chinese that don't really care about Tiananmen recognize the corruption of the communist party, but also value the stability (is any government more stable than an oligarchy?) the party brings. As China continues to develop, the rising middle class will focus more and more on political issues while the economic pressures on them lessen. We see the same thing in the US... once the economy goes, its hard to get people to care about Gay Marriage.
Re:and nothing of value was lost (Score:3, Interesting)
In case you haven't been following it, Brent Spiner is telling a short story through his Twitter account, one sentence at a time. (Or so says my wife; I don't use those newfangled interwebs 2.0 things.)
Re:What are we doing? (Score:3, Interesting)
Nobody will starve. In fact, drastically slowing Chinas economic expansion will prevent them from causing starvation in other poorer countries like Bangladesh & India. Well, the U.S. doesn't have the moral standing for such action, but it'd definitely help poorer people if China slows down.
Actually, slapping a 100% "trade rebalancing" tariff on Chinese products may be quite sound & legal; well there is a WTO framework for ensuring that your trade is balanced. But most countries first just want to stop China's currency manipulation. Of course, China can likely still fight these actions by tariffing U.S. goods, dumping dollars, etc. But I don't think those are such major problems really.
I'd be more worried that such drastic action shows weakness, leading to long term loss of confidence in the dollar. To avoid that, you need some political cover like : a lunatic like Ron Paul gets elected, China invades Taiwan, etc.
Oh, yeah, embargoes are alway bad, you want trade balance through tariffs, and natural currency revaluations.
Re:What are we doing? (Score:3, Interesting)
SEP field, duh.
Its somebody else's problem, not mine, makes it easy for my mind to just ignore or not care.
On that note, you're free to go to China and fight for their rights rather than sitting in your nice comfy chair (which was probably made in China) using your nice computer (which certainly has parts made in China) and wearing cloths made in china.
But you won't. You'll continue to sit in your chair and use your computer to trumpet how evil this is and how everyone is supporting those evil bastards and you'll continue to not actually do shit about it yourself other than doing anything.
And thats good, cause your premise is flawed. Stop buying products from China and their lives won't get better, they'll get worse. Those Chinese workers are working because IT MAKES THEIR LIVES BETTER than the alternative. If they want change, they can bring it about. People did start revolutions before the Internet you know, even in China.
Get off your political high horse and do something useful or stop your bitching. Yes you have the right to free speech, no that doesn't mean anything you say is actually useful or that anyone else wants to hear it or will act on it. Actions speak far louder than words, and your actions tell us you don't actually give a damn, you just want to pretend you do and make everything you're an activist. You aren't, you're just a loud mouth.
The world will always have people with better lives than someone else. Thats the way the animal kingdom works. Always has, always will, its just life and nothing you can say or do will actually change it. Good luck finding support to help you out on it too.
Why should I risk my neck for someone who doesn't want to risk their own to better their lives? Who are you to judge WHO has a better life or who would be happy if things changed. You have no idea what those individual people want in their lives, no clue what so ever. You just think yours is better and they should be like you. Maybe they don't want all the bullshit you have in your life. Maybe they really don't give a fuck about twitter? Stop thinking you know other peoples plights and what they want, you have no idea what those people want and there is nothing you can do that will make their lives better for sure. You think you should be able to go 'help' them with a 'better life' and let them suffer through a revolution while you sit in your Chinese made chair using your Chinese made PC to write smug dairy entries in your blog about how great you are to the rest of the worlds plight.
You people always make me laugh, you always know how to make it better for someone else that you know nothing about. Do you have any idea how much your battle cry sounds like those used to describe the 'rightness' of the Crusades?