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Comments: 151 +-   Twitter, Flickr, Hotmail, Others Blocked In China on Tuesday June 02 2009, @09:43AM

Posted by timothy on Tuesday June 02 2009, @09:43AM
from the this-is-for-your-own-good dept.
censorship
communications
government
internet
news
An anonymous reader writes "Two days ahead of the 20th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square 'incident,' several high profile Internet sites have been blocked in mainland China. These include Twitter.com, Flickr.com, Live.com, and Bing.com. While Internet blocks are common enough in mainland China, blocking such high-profile sites is unusual. In addition, blog reports suggest even state-owned television broadcasts are suffering multiple instances of muting lasting several seconds (again, not unusual for some foreign stations broadcast over cable, but unusual for local state-owned media) suggesting state security, online or through other technology, has tightened significantly, perhaps in anticipation or discovery of protest plans."
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  • Sounds a lot like Facebook being blocked during the elections in Iran [bbc.co.uk]. I wonder if banning sites just long enough to restrict the flow of ideas for the season will become more popular/acceptable than perma-bans?

    "Oops, I can't access social sites today ... must be a "democratic" election coming up!"
    • by poetmatt (793785) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @09:45AM (#28182245)

      Yup. There are plenty of proxies out there too, so what exactly is this going to do? Not to mention every app just mentioned can easily be run on most china phones, so it's not like people have to be in net cafes in China to do said activities.

      • by rob1980 (941751) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @09:55AM (#28182411)
        There are plenty of proxies out there too, so what exactly is this going to do?

        Keep the mainstream folks who don't know what a proxy is (let alone how to use one) in check. For the rest, if they become an issue they'll just be labeled enemies of the state or whatever and dealt with accordingly.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          According to reports young Chinese don't really care about Tiananmen, because they can buy stuff which makes them happy.

          Well, I've understood some young chinese don't even know that anything happened on June 4th and many others only know the cleaned up version: a small group of extremists tried to bring about civil unrest and the armed forces stopped these illegal activities with the least amount of violence possible. Why would anyone (consumer or not) object to that?

  • Retaliation (Score:5, Funny)

    by siloko (1133863) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @09:45AM (#28182251) Homepage
    That's it, I'm going to block China
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      That's it, I'm going to block China

      I don't know if you're joking or not but if you're not here you go [okean.com] (and other formats [okean.com])!

      Here's a brief explanation on how to do it in Apache [parkansky.com] with Russian and Nigerian IP ranges also. You may be tempted to do what many other people are already doing but remember that language barrier aside, you're blocking your website from 1/6th of the Earth's population.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Makes sense - the amount of intrusion attempts and spam coming from Chinese servers may make it worth it.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2009, @09:49AM (#28182309)

    I wish the US would block Twitter too.

    • by gnick (1211984) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @10:15AM (#28182785) Homepage

      I don't know about blocking Twitter, but my faith in humanity would take a big step up if it went under because everyone decided to ignore it.

      In fact, I'm so frustrated over the matter that I'm going to go blog about it on my MySpace and Facebook profiles!

    • Twitter, like any communications medium, is what you make of it. You could start a blog and write about nothing other than the cute things your cat did today, you could write about topics of earth-shattering importance, or your blog could fall somewhere in the middle. You could Twitter about nothing other than the inane details of your life (cue link to the Penny Arcade strip) or you could use Twitter to connect to and keep in touch with a group of people online. E-mail, web pages, television, etc. They

      • In a country like China, where everybody has mobile phones but not everyone has computers, a service like Twitter can be immensely useful in helping the free-flow of information. For me, Twitter is a way for me to let friends and family know what I'm up to while I'm living halfway around the world from them, and it's a handy way to keep up with breaking news, but not having it isn't a big deal, I've got plenty of other sources of information. For my friends in China, losing Twitter is losing an important co

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        In case you haven't been following it, Brent Spiner is telling a short story through his Twitter account, one sentence at a time. (Or so says my wife; I don't use those newfangled interwebs 2.0 things.)

  • What are we doing? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @09:53AM (#28182381)
    Why are we buying the products of these fascist dictatorships? Why do we continue to support reigimes of tyrrany?

    Oh yeah, because they make shit on the cheap and we're a nation of greedy slobs with a humane streak which lasts up until that $5 is taken from your pay cheque to buy your "morality token" for the month.

    Flamebait or not, if you buy Chinese goods, you support oppression.
    • by Darkness404 (1287218) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @09:59AM (#28182483)
      Because if no one buys Chinese products the people magically become not oppressed? Just look at the Cuban embargo, didn't do a stupid thing to strike down communism in fact by isolating themselves they haven't been exposed to non-communist ideas.

      All that would happen if we embargoed China is that the people who live in oppression now will live in oppression while starving.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Nobody will starve. In fact, drastically slowing Chinas economic expansion will prevent them from causing starvation in other poorer countries like Bangladesh & India. Well, the U.S. doesn't have the moral standing for such action, but it'd definitely help poorer people if China slows down.

        Actually, slapping a 100% "trade rebalancing" tariff on Chinese products may be quite sound & legal; well there is a WTO framework for ensuring that your trade is balanced. But most countries first just want to

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Why are we buying the products of these fascist dictatorships? Why do we continue to support reigimes of tyrrany? Oh yeah, because they make shit on the cheap and we're a nation of greedy slobs with a humane streak which lasts up until that $5 is taken from your pay cheque to buy your "morality token" for the month. Flamebait or not, if you buy Chinese goods, you support oppression.

      There's things which are "Flamebait" because they're blatantly false and often deliberate distortions of reality.

      Then there's things which are "Flamebait" because they're completely true and people can't accept that due to a number of character flaws and other shortcomings that render them unable to call things what they are or otherwise to deal with reality. The funny thing is, people get a lot more pissy and upset about this one, and try much harder to shut it down or to shout it down (like the pleasa

    • Why are we buying the products of these fascist dictatorships?

      Part of the answer to your first question is also availability. There are some markets where the Chinese goods have such a lock on production that it is nearly impossible to not buy something made in China.

      Sure, you can buy a Chinese made widget for less than an American made widget almost without exception. However, there are times when no amount of money will buy a non-Chinese widget because no such item exists.

      Furthermore, your statement

      products of these fascist dictatoriships

      Is itself an absurd over-simplification of the situation.

      • Not always true. As I said, there are times that you don't have a choice in the matter. Sometimes the only way to purchase the item you need for whatever task is at hand is to purchase a Chinese made version of it. If you don't believe me then take a look through the tool section of your favorite home improvement / hardware / discount / general merchandise store. There are some items that if you need them today, you have no choice but to buy Chinese - and if your choice is to buy Chinese or allow your basem

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Apparently, after the bankruptcy, GM will be making cars in China... [ceoworld.biz]

      I'm not really looking forward to that, I'm not sure why the government decided to waste all our taxpayer money on GM if they knew they were just planning to send most of the jobs to China. But I guess some extremely rich people won't lose as much money as they were going to originally, which makes me feel just swell.

      I guess the people in charge of this, like our car czar, figured that that was what people were concerned about, that some w

    • "We" are not buying products from "fascist dictatorships". Regular businessmen -- Americans, Canadians, Japanese, Germans, etc. -- are buying products from (and selling products to) regular Chinese businessmen. They're not buying from the Chinese state, and they generally don't care what any of this world's authoritarian regimes -- whether Obama's, Jintao's, or someone else's -- are up to so long as they can make an honest living.

      It's highly disingenuous of you to suggest that the Cantonese factories my cli

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      ...if you buy Chinese goods, you support oppression.

      Yeah, but where do you think we get the $$ to buy that Chinese crap? Take a look at our national debt and the debt-holders. We're buying Chinese crap using $$ borrowed from the Chinese. It's a very dysfunctional, but symbiotic, relationship. Look up codependency. And our financial overlords (with whom I do not necessarily agree) seem to think that we need to keep buying this crap to sustain our culture.

      The only solution I see is a huge culture change (but that's terribly difficult to effect - If you c

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      SEP field, duh.

      Its somebody else's problem, not mine, makes it easy for my mind to just ignore or not care.

      On that note, you're free to go to China and fight for their rights rather than sitting in your nice comfy chair (which was probably made in China) using your nice computer (which certainly has parts made in China) and wearing cloths made in china.

      But you won't. You'll continue to sit in your chair and use your computer to trumpet how evil this is and how everyone is supporting those evil bastards and

      • We aren't. We're buying products made by businesses in China, which are not the government of China.

        Except when the businesses are owned by the Chinese military or party apparatchiks. Then it gets blurry.

  • by harmonise (1484057) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @09:54AM (#28182395)

    I suspect that this will have unintended consequences like a Streisand effect. Some people who might not think about the Tiananmen Square incident might wonder why they can't get to certain sites. They'll ask a friend about it who will respond "Maybe because it's the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square incident." The listener's memory will be refreshed and the chance of people forgetting about Tiananmen Square and the date the incident occurred will be lessened.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      In 2006, the American PBS program "Frontline" broadcast a segment filmed at Peking University, many of whose students participated in the 1989 protests. Four students were shown a picture of the Tank Man, but none of them could identify what was happening in the photo. Some responded that it was a military parade, or an artwork.

      From Wikipedia, but still illustrates the point, young people in China don't know much about the Tienanmen Square incident unless they get it from hearsay or from people abroad. How often does the Kent State incident come up in day to day conversation for you? Would you even know about it if you weren't taught about it in a Modern US History class? How many Americans would look at you confused if you started talking about an incident where the US military shot and killed unarmed US civilians?

      • Well another stark difference is that in China no one gets a song about Tienanmen up on the Top 40 charts either. Sure it's not popular now but I didn't learn about Kent State in a history class, I heard about in that song Ohio by Crosby, Stills and Nash and then read about it later.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        There were 13 casualties in the Kent State shootings, 4 of which were fatal. The Tiananmen square numbers are (officially) 241 deaths, which is probably far smaller than the real number (There have been reports of up to 2400 deaths). I think it's disingenuous to compare Tiananmen and Kent State. Perhaps 9/11 would be a closer analogue? In any case, there was lots of media created about Kent State, and it _IS_ taught in schools.
  • Freedom of expression on the net is a very dangerous thing. If you don't tighly rein in and control social websites, your population starts getting the impression that they don't need a benevolent communist overlord to tighly rein in and control them. We can't have that now, can we?
  • Editors, please! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by curmudgeous (710771) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @10:04AM (#28182583)

    "Two days ahead of the Tiananmen Square 'incident'...

    So, slashdot is predicting incidents now? Or should that read, "Two days ahead of the anniversary of..."?

    Yes, I'm picking nits, but the overall quality of journalism seems to be declining on a daily basis. Despite what some here may think, accuracy IS important.

    • With all the bannings perhaps it will spark an social uprising. After all, how can you live life without Twitter?
    • Yes, I'm picking nits, but the overall quality of journalism seems to be declining on a daily basis. Despite what some here may think, accuracy IS important.

      And quite frankly, this website is part of new media, and the creators/owners/editors are not trained journalists (if any are, someone please correct me). What's most disgusting is the tripe generated by so many local television newscasters, people who we used to expect brought some kind of journalistic integrity, a reasonable command of their native language, and could avoid the kind of writing that makes us slap our foreheads. Yes, it's true, many tv newscasters in my area probably hate me for my emails

  • As many have pointed out on TFA, Gmail is still OK for the moment and it can be set to collect your Hotmail.

  • by vampire_baozi (1270720) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @10:41AM (#28183245)

    Seriously, almost no Chinese use those sites. Twitter doesn't even have a Chinese language version, and has barely begun to grow in China (though it may, there are already several Chinese clonewares out). Nobody ANYWHERE in the world uses Bing, and the Chinese use QQ, Sohu, Xinlang, or other IM/Portal/Blogging services instead of Live/Blogspot. Flickr is the only one Chinese might even notice, and there are plenty of alternatives.

    The only Chinese that use these (now blocked) services are educated, and probably have decent English, and know how to get around these blocks. The vast majority of Chinese users use other websites, or have alternatives. The contrversial stuff has always been hosted on non-Chinese websites for obvious reasons, and people who want to see it are well aware of how to get around the blocks.

    Far more telling was the 7 hours of downtime Xiaonei went through yesterday for maintanence. They've already been shutting down certain Xiaonei groups and blocking users for doing political stuff, I wonder if the maintanence included any updates to help with censorship?

  • by CannonballHead (842625) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @10:50AM (#28183397)
    Probably "off topic," but it's interesting that they promised quite a bit in order to be allowed to have the Olympics. Makes me wonder about other promises. Makes me glad to live in the US. :)
  • ... I thought they were the interweb socialism?

  • Selective Memories (Score:3, Insightful)

    by VShael (62735) on Tuesday June 02 2009, @11:20AM (#28183803)

    Yes, we all think it's terrible that the majority of the youth in China don't even know about the Tianamen Square "incident"

    But within America itself, how many of you know of, or recognise the following incidents?

    1) US Government (ATF/FBI) burns to death 76 people in their homes, and the FBI lies about it for six years, when it finally comes clean. No one is ever held accountable.

    2) 4 plain-clothed officers shoot an unarmed man standing in his doorway. They shoot a total of 41 times. He is hit 19 times. After the officers are convicted, the court orders them re-tried, and the second time around they are all acquitted.

    3) Unarmed students at an anti-war protest, are shot at by the National Guard. 4 die, 9 are injured. Again, no accountability. No convictions.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      But within America itself, how many of you know of, or recognise the following incidents?

      1) US Government (ATF/FBI) burns to death 76 people in their homes, and the FBI lies about it for six years, when it finally comes clean. No one is ever held accountable.

      2) 4 plain-clothed officers shoot an unarmed man standing in his doorway. They shoot a total of 41 times. He is hit 19 times. After the officers are convicted, the court orders them re-tried, and the second time around they are all acquitted.

      3) Unarmed students at an anti-war protest, are shot at by the National Guard. 4 die, 9 are injured. Again, no accountability. No convictions.

      Um, all three incidents were front page stories on the news (i.e. not suppressed) and the last one has been covered in every American history class I've ever taken.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        The first one is about the Wako Siege, which even all the more informed people here in the Netherlands will remember. It was interesting reading up on it again. I can remember browsing the few US news channels for it when the news was fresh. IMHO, the only reason to leave this little piece of information out was to obscure the fact that people actually do know about this incident. Also, blandly claiming that the lives of these people were all taken by the FBI is taking it way too far.

        For me that's enough of

    • Well for twitter they just redirect to a fail whale and no one will notice.

    • But alas remember this is the instant information age now. A few days after the anniversary no one will care about it and move onto the next funny video on youtube of cats stuck in a bag.
    • Sure, but theres two things that they would mostly think. Either A) Stupid computer, why won't you work or B) Well, I guess Twitter is down.

      People, especially computer illiterate people are more apt to believe that their ISP sucks, the sites down or they need to upgrade their computer rather then their malevolent communist overlords are trying to block them.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      They assume the government knows best and it's for their own good, for the most part.

    • Configuration files? This is China, where labor is cheap. They have people manually inspect every request as it goes past the firewall.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      You know, there are some significant differences between those two instances:

      1) I can google 'kent state' and quickly find the relevant wikipedia article from work without risk of reprisal (unless my boss sees me goofing off...) even though I'm using a public, static IP address that could easily be tracked to my computer (at least it could be easily tracked if I was going through the great firewall of China). I'd love to see someone in China be able to google 'Tianamen' and be able to click on the wikipedia

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