Canadian Court Orders Site To ID Anonymous Posters

An anonymous reader writes "A Canadian court has ordered the owners of the FreeDominion.ca to disclose all personal information on eight anonymous posters to the chat site. The required information includes email and IP addresses. The court ruled that anonymous posters have no reasonable expectation of privacy, a major blow to online free speech in Canada."

Re:Good luck

[slummy]

Good pay proxy service: Socksify [socksify.com]

PDF of the motion, high lulz-to-content ratio

[tjonnyc999]

http://www.freedominion.com.pa/images/motion_decision.pdf [freedominion.com.pa]

Worth a read, especially moments like request for "Any and all documents relating to the establishment and ongoing operation of the website, freedominion.ca, by the Fournier Defendants, such as, but not limited to, hosting agreements, billing information, and website registrant name(s)."

Now, if the purpose of the motion is to acquire documents that will help to establish the identities of the posters - how the hell is the hosting agreement/billing details/etc relevant? Or is this a case of "let's collect all the paperwork we can, relevant or not, and then see what we can make of it"?

"Well, we see that you've established the site in 1991, and have been paying $ 39.99/month for hosting. CLEARLY, this proves... um... actually, I'm not sure WHAT it proves... Hang on."

Re:Rock and hard place.

[guruevi]

Oh, don't worry, the Netherlands' government is much like the UK/Canada: always trying to follow the US government especially when it comes to tahrarhism and privacy. As far as the RIAA goes, they have their hands over there as well under the name BREIN (from Wikipedia):

BREIN is perhaps best known for shutting down Dutch eDonkey 2000 link giant ShareConnector.com in December 2004. Due to controversy over the legality of links to illegal content, and a lack of quality in the evidence provided by BREIN, the case has not been put to trial yet. After being offline for two years, ShareConnector reopened in December 2006 but after barely one year; on November 12, 2007, Shareconnector went offline again.

On October 23, 2007 BREIN, together with IFPI, BPI, Dutch police, and other organizations shut down prominent Bittorrent tracker Oink's Pink Palace.

On November 19, 2007, TorrentFreak announced on its website that BREIN copy-and-pasted a sentence of text from TorrentFreak's website onto its own website without attributing TorrentFreak, as per TorrentFreak's copyright license. TorrentFreak stated that they intended to seek legal action and damages of almost $1,000,000 for the alleged intellectual property violation.

According to their own website (anti-piracy.nl) the organization has as members not only the local (legalized) copyright organization but also the MPAA to 'represent the American movie industry'. According to them 35% of new and 16% of ALL media in circulation in the Netherlands is 'illegal'.

silly court decision, no free speach in Canada

[stuartjames]

The U.S. Supreme Court, has recognized the importance of ensuring that average citizens have the right to use false names and publish anonymously. In its 1960 decision in Talley v. California, the Supreme Court ruled that a law forbidding individuals from distributing handbills without identifying their identity unconstitutionally infringed on the First Amendment's guarantee to free speech. The Court declared: Anonymous pamphlets, leaflets, brochures and even books have played an important role in the progress of mankind. Persecuted groups and sects from time to time throughout history have been able to criticize oppressive practices and laws either anonymously or not at all. . . . Before the Revolutionary War colonial patriots frequently had to conceal their authorship or distribution of literature that easily could have brought down on them prosecutions by English-controlled courts . . .. It is plain that anonymity has sometimes been assumed for the most constructive purposes. Just because someone writes on an electronic medium does not preclude to free speach.

Re:Anonymous speak Free speech

[crath]

I must disagree: western governments have historically ruled against the protection of anonymous speech; however, free speech has traditionally been protected.

Dictionary Time?

[Anonymous Coward]

anonymous posters have no reasonable expectation of privacy

anonymous
Function:
        adjective

Date:
        1631

1 : not named or identified
2 : of unknown authorship or origin
3 : lacking individuality, distinction, or recognizability

Merriam-Webster [merriam-webster.com]

Re:Anonymous speak Free speech

[IndustrialComplex]

I must disagree: western governments have historically ruled against the protection of anonymous speech; however, free speech has traditionally been protected.

You are wrong.
Talley v. California, 362 U.S. 60 (1960).

The Supreme Court found that a law that prohibited anonymous handbills was void. Anonymous speech was specifically cited as having a role in free societies.

Free Speech

[whisper_jeff]

Canada doesn't have a right to free speech in the same way as America (I know, it could be debated that Americans have it any more but that's a different discussion). Lots of Canadians think we have that right because we think many of the things that apply to our American neighbours also applies to us but they are incorrect. For those interested in the subtle difference, I refer you to the ever-helpful Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#Canada [wikipedia.org] ). Short version - we have a right to free speech "subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." In other words, our "right" to free speech can be withdrawn...

I know it makes for a sensational headline but it's inaccurate.

Re:Good luck

[Curtman]

Seems to go against previous legislation which says:

personal information can be collected about you only as long as it is:

• Gathered with the knowledge and consent of the consumer
• Collected for a reasonable purpose
• Used only for the reasons for which it was gathered
• Accurate and up to date
• Open for inspection and correction by the consumer
• Stored securely

Re:Good luck

[Kalriath]

I think the Pirate Bay's beta service is better. They don't log. For obvious reasons.

Re:Anonymous speak Free speech

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada does have free speech, according to Section 2(b) of the Constitution (Charter of Rights and Freedoms 1982):

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/#libertes

Re:Anonymous speak Free speech

[Anonymous Coward]

No free speech? Have a look at the Canadian charter or rights and freedoms [justice.gc.ca].
Here is an excerpt:

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

        a) freedom of conscience and religion;
        b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
        c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
        d) freedom of association.

Re:Something interseting

[little_canada]

As someone mentioned, this is a "civil" affair. Richard Warman is suing the moderators of FreeDominion.ca and many other conservative bloggers because they have criticized him (see http://ezralevant.com/2008/04/richard-warman-has-sued-me-and.html [ezralevant.com]). This is part of a SLAPP (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation) to prevent the critics of Mr. Warman from publishing information on how he, with the complicity of the federal government under the Canadian Human Rights Commission, is attempting to censor speech in Canada.

Re:Anonymous speak Free speech

[shutdown -p now]

You disagree that western political philosophy has anonymous speech as a central part of free speech/expression? Then you'd be disagreeing with reality. One only has to look at the Federalist papers to show you wrong.

American political philosophy is not the same as Western political philosophy. While they do have a lot of common points, at times they differ wildly.

Just compare "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" in U.S. to "peace, order and good government" [wikipedia.org] in Canada to see what I mean.

Re:Anonymous speak Free speech

[Rary]

We don't have a constitution. Please turn in your passport...

Uh, yes we do. Please attend a Canadian History class. Or at least do some trivial research [lmgtfy.com].

Re:What does /. do with the IPs of Anonymous Cowar

[Ernesto Alvarez]

No doubt. Try moderating and then posting as anonymous. Your mods will be reverted.

Re:Good luck

[Jurily]

Kind of like asking a white South African about their views on racial equality.

I'm a white 23 yo Hungarian programmer. No matter where I am, I'm discriminated against. If you don't believe me, try to get a job in Hungary. Seriously.

I moved to the UK in august, because 1. it's in the EU, 2. I speak the language, 3. the minimal wage here is roughly 3 times that of the one back home. (Really. My last job back home was 570 HUF/hour before taxes (less than £1.50). Now, I make £6 with a fucking cleaning job, and it will at least double as soon as I get the proper language skills, and my education recognized.)

I don't know about you, but a 8x increase in salary is a pretty fucking compelling reason to move. And it gets reinforced every time I hear news about what's happening back home. The Forint is basically dying, along with the Hungarian economics.

Don't assume, however, that I agree with these people.
If nothing else, I know what sunshine is like. (When I came here, it was 35 degree Celsius home. Here, I didn't see the sun for three weeks.)

inb4 Language, I do have it in writing, you can check my history here, but verbal is a different story.

tl;dr For me, racial equality means I can't depend on anyone else but myself.

Re:Rock and hard place.

[IgnoramusMaximus]

We have no separation of church and state.

In practical terms the Church plays no significant role in Canadian politics, which is the exact opposite of what is going on with all the religious wackiness (complete with war on teaching of the evolution theory in schools) down in the US. None of this is going on here .... well maybe amongst some really far-gone "Conservatives".

We can be prosecuted for thought crimes and "hate speech" in courts which do not follow any traditional legal structures, where you are presumed guilty until proven otherwise, and where truth is no defense.

The "hate speech" and "thought crimes" parts are sadly true. The rest is bullshit.

We have no right to defend our homes. We have no right to own and employ firearms in self defense.

I am not sure what you speak of. Yes, you have to register the thing, have a pile of permits to transport it back and fro to the shooting range (the only place you should really need it outside your home) and can only use it a there or keep it at home, but in a case of a home invasion when the attacker is armed and likely to maim or kill you, if you use it, it would be no different if you used any other weapon at hand.

We don't even have the equivalent of the fifth amendment, let alone the Posse Comitatus!

We have the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 7, which is pretty much equivalent in most respects to the 5th amendment. As to Posse Commitatus, true, not that it helped the US any in this regard, I seem to recall the National Guard shooting people for demonstrating ....

Re:Good luck

[BaronHethorSamedi]

Out of interest, is Baron Hethor Samedi your real nameor a pseudonym?

Ha! A very fair question. My real name is Ethan Rampton. E-mail is now set to public. Feel free to contact me, but if you elect to do so, please do me the courtesy of introducing yourself.