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UK To Mull High Video Game Taxes — To Fight Knife Crime 615

Posted by timothy
from the so-it's-like-a-hunting-license dept.
chareverie writes "The Prime Minister of the UK is being urged to impose high taxes on violent video games in an effort to reduce the number of knife-related crime. The request comes from Richard Taylor, who argues that young people 'feel that the law has no control over them. They just feel that they can go on the streets and do whatever they like.' He doesn't have a definitive number on how much to tax on the offensive video games, but says that they should be 'very high.' Rap music is also voiced to be a concern due to the alleged negativity and language. Taylor's son, Damilola Taylor, was killed in November 2000 at the age of 10 by knife stabbing."
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UK To Mull High Video Game Taxes — To Fight Knife Crime

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  • by Kagura (843695) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:15PM (#27153343)
    Correlation is causation! Mwahaha.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:20PM (#27153455)

      Exactly. I knew a kid from bible camp 12 years ago who now is in federal prison for killing and wearing the skin of 16 flemish prostitutes. I always knew Jesus killed, but now that I know video games also kill, what will save us all? We must seek Mel Gibson for council.

    • by oodaloop (1229816) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:20PM (#27153467)
      It's quite amazing this guy figured out the underlying cause of an amazingly complex set of interrelated processes in society. They should get this guy working on the economy so he can tell us the one thing we need to do to get out of the recession.
      • by Kagura (843695) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:23PM (#27153521)
        At least we know that the key to solving Global Warming lies off the coast of Somalia. ;)
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by ShieldW0lf (601553)
        They should get this guy working on the economy so he can tell us the one thing we need to do to get out of the recession.

        Stop institutionalizing and disenfranchising your youth. Stop encouraging your children to sterilize themselves. Wait a generation or two. Problem solved.

        Oh, you want to actually enjoy life while you're young?

        Exterminate the dependent elderly until they only represent a small portion of the population. Continue to sterilize yourselves so the dependent young never represent mor
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Joce640k (829181)

        Did he also notice that the kids who carry knives get their games via The Pirate Bay...?

        Thought not.

    • by mr_mischief (456295) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:27PM (#27153583) Journal

      Obligatory xkcd for you, and it's even a recent one: correlation [xkcd.org].

      Unfortunately, most idiots who spout drivel like this don't even have a strong correlation in the first place. Sales of violent video games may be up, and knife crimes might be up, but is it even the kids playing the games committing the crimes?

      Giving adolescents more productive things to do is the best way to fight teen crime. If they're busy earning money, cleaning the parks as volunteers, acting in community theatre, playing music, dancing, painting, or playing organized sports they're less likely (and have less free time) to go out and commit crimes.

      • by vishbar (862440) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:40PM (#27153783)
        If it's anything like the US, then the kids buying video games are probably not the ones going around stabbing folks. Violent crime tends to correlate with a lower income bracket...whereas a kid who buys lots of violent video games for his next-gen console and HDTV probably comes from a higher-income family.
        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by Shakrai (717556)

          whereas a kid who buys lots of violent video games for his next-gen console and HDTV probably comes from a higher-income family.

          Or knows how to use bittorrent and a soldering iron ;)

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by erroneus (253617)

          "Freedom's just another word for 'nothin left ta lose'"

          People who have more to lose tend to take fewer risks and do fewer bad things. People with little to nothing to lose have fewer moral limits... generally. (Clearly, there are more sociopaths that are in charge of the country and most big businesses than not) So the "BEST" way to control the people and curb violence and all that stuff is to make sure they have something to lose! Let them be more prosperous and comfortable. Give them better TV shows

      • Re:Correlation... (Score:5, Informative)

        by julesh (229690) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:44PM (#27153861)

        Unfortunately, most idiots who spout drivel like this don't even have a strong correlation in the first place. Sales of violent video games may be up, and knife crimes might be up, but is it even the kids playing the games committing the crimes?

        It's worse than that. Knife crime is down [bbc.co.uk]. The number of people injured by knives and other sharp instruments is down [bbc.co.uk] (although not by as much as was previously reported). Incidence of violent crime in general is down. [bbc.co.uk]

        This hysteria and panic is caused by, well, nothing. Except the fact that for some unknown reason over the last 5 years the media has become much more likely to report each and every incident of violence with a knife that they get to hear about.

        So, if there is any correlation, it's a negative one: more video games, less knife crime.

        • by CannonballHead (842625) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:25PM (#27154641)

          So, if there is any correlation, it's a negative one: more video games, less knife crime.

          Interestingly, that seems to be the opposite side of the correlation != causation arguments that come up on slashdot every time violent video games come up. I know you're not concluding this in your post - but a lot of posts do tend to say "correlation != causation, and besides, violent video games help reduce actual violence ..."

          Can't have it both ways, it always seems to be the same kinds of studies (whether psychological, statistical, correlation types, etc) that "prove" violent video games increase violent crime as those that "prove" that violent video games decrease violent crime.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          This hysteria and panic is caused by, well, nothing. Except the fact that for some unknown reason over the last 5 years the media has become much more likely to report each and every incident of violence with a knife that they get to hear about.

          Perhaps there's more media: more reporters + more vehicles of delivery = more output for the same crime.

          Blow it out of proportion: one knife crime a day, 10,000 reporters to cover it, and reported in 25 newspapers, 37 TV channels and 600 websites. You would think the world was ending, too.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by PMuse (320639)

      Actually, TFA not only fails to show causation, it doesn't bother to show correlation either. Never fear! We can fix that for them.

      1. Accusation is correlation!
      2. Correlation is causation!
      3. ???
      4. Profit.

  • by pembo13 (770295) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:15PM (#27153345) Homepage

    People spending more time playing video games have less time to stab people.

    • by vishbar (862440) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:19PM (#27153423)

      I wonder if this will have an opposite effect than intended. Now instead of being able to vent their frustration on the Helghast, that knife on the kitchen table looks mightily attractive...

      Plus, if you've gotten to the point that you want to stab someone, you have a mental problem...sucks that the UK government is punishing the citizenry for the acts of a few disturbed individuals.

      • Lol, ahhh I can't stab old laddies in GTA...time to start stabbing them in real life.

    • by RabidMoose (746680) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:20PM (#27153449) Homepage
      They also develop better hand-eye coordination, a foundation of stabbing abilities.

      ^^sarcasm
    • by kick6 (1081615) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:22PM (#27153507) Homepage

      Please correct my logic

      This is the part where you fail. You erroneously assume that logic comes into play in the English government.

      • by Shakrai (717556) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:54PM (#27154057) Journal

        You erroneously assume that logic comes into play with government.

        Fixed that for you ;)

    • Plus (Score:5, Insightful)

      by msobkow (48369) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:28PM (#27153603) Homepage Journal

      Plus there is the minor side issue that most video games use guns, not knives to inflict damage. It sounds like the proponent of this tax are yet another example of knee-jerk reactionaries with a hate-on for video games and rap music. Why is it that such nutbars are even heard by government, much less seriously considered?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Hmmm. On the other hand, what about teaching kids that violence (shooting, knifing, whatever) is not the answer? [Violent] video games don't do that.

      Yes, it decreases their free time, but not necessarily constructively. I can think of a lot of other activities. You may as well say that TV prevents crime or something, and that taxing TV usage would increase crime? But there's the question of whether or not TV does something to the mind that increases this or that behavior when not watching TV.

      Same with v

  • by halivar (535827) <[bfelger] [at] [gmail.com]> on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:17PM (#27153385) Homepage

    Now that they've done away with all gun and knife crimes, they need to fight shillelagh crimes. Shillelagh crimes have been steadily on the rise, doubling from one to two in just ten years. Even worse, some oafs are starting to hammer nails into their shillelaghs, just so they have metal pokey-bits to inflict more damage.

    We need to tax all carpenters and lumberyards in the UK, or our youth will pay a terrible price in violence and fear.

  • HUH? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by trdrstv (986999) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:18PM (#27153393)
    If raising taxes is a method of fighting crime (it's not, but supposing it is) then why not raise taxes on the sale of knives ?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by zappepcs (820751)

      For the same reasons that raising taxes on gun sales does nothing to stop gun crimes.

    • Re:HUH? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Khashishi (775369) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:48PM (#27153959) Journal
      As a cook, I'd have to say that's a bad idea.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by tsstahl (812393)
        Wait, is it your position that you use knives for something other than killing?

        That's just crazy sane type talk.
      • Re:HUH? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Brandybuck (704397) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:46PM (#27154979) Homepage Journal

        Just like with guns, the law-abiders need to bear the full brunt of the legislation. Register all knives! If you're an honest cook, you have nothing to hide. So register knives today! And wait ten days for the appoveal. For the Children!

        Remember, you're not a politician, and don't know how to run your own life.

    • If raising taxes is a method of fighting crime (it's not, but supposing it is) then why not raise taxes on the sale of knives ?

      That is a damn good idea. And to stop rape, we should tax penises. By the pound.
  • by SuperKendall (25149) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:18PM (#27153401)

    The youth of Britain apparently feel that the law has no control over them (something I agree is probably the case).

    So you solve that by... raising taxes? It doesn't even matter on what, it might as well be rutabagas for the good it does you in terms of solving the problem. How is making video games that thugs want more expensive so they have to knife four more people to get the funds really going to help?

    Instead, how about imposing some more forceful law over those that feel the law is irrelevant to their actions? When actions start having real consequences, people can and will change.

    • by pluther (647209) <pluther.usa@net> on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:31PM (#27153637) Homepage

      Instead, how about imposing some more forceful law over those that feel the law is irrelevant to their actions? When actions start having real consequences, people can and will change.

      Exactly.

      So, instead of raising taxes on video games, they should impose a tax on stabbing people.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Shakrai (717556)

        they should impose a tax on stabbing people.

        Hey, it's how they got Capone ;)

    • by Nursie (632944) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:48PM (#27153951)

      Didn't you get the memo?

      Enforcing the law in the UK is just sooooo last century.

      We don't do that any more, it's just not cool. No, what we do instead is bring in hundreds of new laws outlawing things that were already illegal (terrorist activity), remove a few liberties whilst we're at it, direct the police towards legitimate protest and speech (they're all terrorists now!), bring in nebulous measures like ASBOs which allow anyone to enjoy the feeling of the courts coming down on them and imposing restrictions on their lives over any trivial matter that doesn't even have to be illegal... all whilst shouting about drugs and morality.

      this is just one more reason I'm getting the hell out.

  • Why not tax (Score:5, Insightful)

    by internerdj (1319281) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:19PM (#27153411)
    , you know, knives?
    • Re:Why not tax (Score:4, Insightful)

      by CannonballHead (842625) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:33PM (#27154771)

      Yeah, because most thugs are above stealing knives if they can't afford them.

      This always comes up with gun laws, etc. The criminals aren't the ones that have difficulty getting guns and they don't care if they are breaking the law by carrying them. "Banning" guns or "banning" knives or any of that sort of activity (taxing, etc) only harms those that want to abide by the law in the first place, not those that are TRYING to break it (kill, stab, steal, whatever).

  • by Cro Magnon (467622) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:19PM (#27153425) Homepage Journal

    if they would put police on the street. Apparently, spy cameras don't deter knife crime unless someone actually gets arrested for it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jimicus (737525)

      It probably doesn't help that so many cameras generate such shitty images that you wind up with a news report saying "Police are looking for an amorphous grey blob that stabbed another amorphous grey blob".

  • by Keith_Beef (166050) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:20PM (#27153453)

    The British gov't has systematically distorted statistics and selectively presented data in order to advance its own agenda.

    This latest ploy probably has little to do with crime, and more to do with bringing in more cash to fund the gov't's pet projects. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7780057.stm [bbc.co.uk] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7781030.stm [bbc.co.uk]

    K

  • by Jason Levine (196982) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:21PM (#27153489)

    Some people in the UK are also calling for the ban of any pointed chef's knives [bbc.co.uk]. These people claim that there's no possible reason for a knife to have a point to it except to stab people. Now, I'm not a chef, but I've done my share of cooking. I will often use the pointed tip of my knife to "stab" a food item if the food (like, say tomatoes) resists my initial slice attempts (e.g. looks like it's going to squish instead of slice cleanly). What's next? Ban scissors? Box cutters (not just from planes but any possession of)? Swiss Army Knives?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Locke2005 (849178)
      The knife point is used to cut the eyes out of a potato or the stem off of tomatoes or other fruits. And cutting watermelons that have a larger diameter than the knife blade. Pen knives with points are also extremely useful for whittling. And punching new holes in your belt. And prying cases open. Why would people have bought pointed knives for hundreds of years if they didn't actually have some utility?

      While we're at it, why don't we ban penises? After all, it's the weapon of choice for rapists everywhere

    • Re: Food preparation (Score:3, Informative)

      by lewiscr (3314)

      I will often use the pointed tip of my knife to "stab" a food item if the food (like, say tomatoes) resists my initial slice attempts (e.g. looks like it's going to squish instead of slice cleanly).

      Offtopic, but you either need to sharpen your knives or use the right knife. Probably both. :-)

      A freshly sharpened chefs will cut tomatoes, but not for long. Using the steel hone will prolong this, but it's still not the right blade for that. I pull out a scalloped or serrated blade, and that works wonders. Even so, I need to get mine sharpend.

  • by fprintf (82740) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:25PM (#27153551) Journal

    Is anyone surprised that the chavs and yobs running around with knives are powerful, and the defenseless British public are scared and powerless? This is exactly what happens when the criminals lack fear because the British people have been completely disarmed. What is a person supposed to do now against someone who has a knife? Ask politely for them to stop?

    While the timing of this article, and response, is very poor given the two horrendous gun crimes yesterday and today, perhaps it is time to revisit the anti-weapon stance that has gripped England since the Scottish school massacre. Take away the guns, then only criminals will have them. Outlaw knives, and only criminals have them. Outlaw video games next?

    • What is a person supposed to do now against someone who has a knife? Ask politely for them to stop?

      In fact, the victim has a Duty to Retreat [wikipedia.org], sometimes even within their own homes. It is laws like these that have made the public scared and powerless. For the convenience of the government, it is better for ordinary people to simply lay down and die when face with criminal activity.

      People have the right to stand their ground and yes, use violence when they are in danger. While I don't agree with "shoot first" laws that some American states have implemented, it is not always the case that the first person to use violence is in the wrong.

      It's not just guns and knives. People have been seriously injured, permanently disabled and even killed by bare hands and boots. It may be more legally clear who is in the wrong if your attacker strikes first, but that will not help you much if you have to walk with a limp for the rest of your days. Unfortunately, modern legal systems do not recognise this, and will judge the honest man who strikes first far more harshly than the career criminal who does so.

      It's not a question of being armed. Arming people won't help. You have to give people the right to defend themselves. The real right. Not a clause that only comes into effect when they've already been rendered unconscious.

  • by Intron (870560) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:26PM (#27153557)
    There should also be a huge surcharge on Mario Kart applied to the uninsured motorists accident fund. While we're at it, America's Army could be taxed to fund the new push in Afghanistan, and the Bee Movie game could be taxed to find a cure for the honeybee diseases. Let's get creative. In this recession we need to find new ways of extracting money from people. Gamers obviously have too much.
  • video games (Score:5, Funny)

    by BigHungryJoe (737554) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:26PM (#27153571) Homepage

    If you can't see the causal relationship between video games and stabbing hookers, then you've never played Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

  • Misleading Summary (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Shrike82 (1471633) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:29PM (#27153611)
    Far be it from me to suggest that people RTFA or question the correctness of a summary title, but the father of a murdered boy urging the Prime Minister to tax violent games is a pretty big fucking step from the "UK To Mull High Video Game Taxes - To Fight Knife Crime " in the summary title.

    Just for clarity - the UK government aren't doing anything like what's being implied. One man, rightly or wrongly, is suggesting this.
  • by idontgno (624372) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:30PM (#27153621) Journal
    they need to head off spoon crimes. I recommend SPOOOOOOOOONGUARRRRD! [rathergood.com]
  • England prevails (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 0xdeadbeef (28836) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:41PM (#27153811) Homepage Journal

    This is what happens to a country that takes people's guns away.

  • Alternatives. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by senorpoco (1396603) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:42PM (#27153831)
    I propose a 278% tax on all history books. History has long been known to contain scenes of bloody violence, sexual deviance and disregard for authority. It is time that the government and parents started to take a stand against the corruptive influence of history.
  • by bendytendril (1281160) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:43PM (#27153837)
    He was stabbed by a gang of 11 to 14-year-olds. The boy's mother had complained repeatedly to the principal about bullies, yet he did nothing.

    Bullying is the real problem here which should be addressed.
  • Revenue Streams? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by tripdizzle (1386273) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:49PM (#27153963)
    Sooo, they put a tax on video games and how does that cut down (no pun intended) on knife crime?? Do they use that money to hire more cops to patrol, or do studies on the relationship between gaming and knife crime?? Seems to me like they are just looking for another revenue stream, and vilifying video games usually seems to be an easy target, especially when its being done for the greatest of all causes, for the children.
    My head just exploded.
  • If you ban guns... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anita Coney (648748) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @12:53PM (#27154039) Homepage

    ... soon criminals will only have knifes. What's next? Sticks and stones?!

  • by thewils (463314) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:01PM (#27154193) Journal

    Stabbings occur with knives! Not Video Games. It's the knives that they should be taxing!!!

  • by MrSteveSD (801820) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:02PM (#27154225)
    ...since they also 'feel that the law has no control over them'.
  • by julesh (229690) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:06PM (#27154291)

    I still don't get this. Why is knife crime suddenly such a big deal here in the UK? It seems like every other day some newspaper or TV news or something is talking about it. You hear phrases like "knife-crime epidemic" bandied about.

    See 2008 crime figures [bbc.co.uk]:

    • Number of offences per 100,000 population down 8% from 10,024 to 9,214.
    • "Most serious violence against the person": down 12%.
    • "Knife-enabled crime": down 16% (Metropolitan Police figures) or 17% (Home Office figures).
    • From a different source [bbc.co.uk], number of people wounded by knives or other sharp instruments down by 8%.

    Nothing to see here. Move on. Stop whining, and yes, Daily Mail editors, I mean you.

  • by Hordeking (1237940) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:13PM (#27154427)

    I thought all crime was supposed to cease in England when they banned firearms.

    So, now it's knives?

    Next, they will come for the pointy things.

    Eventually, everyone in England will be required to be lobotomized in order to prevent anyone from taking any actions whatsoever that might be harmful to someone else.

  • by SoundGuyNoise (864550) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:14PM (#27154449) Homepage
    They made knives available and cheaper to the lowest common denominator of society. Plus easy credit made it possible to order with express shipping! So it's MasterCard's fault too! And the TV stations that broadcast these calls for slaughter!

    Don't forget your local/national/international package delivery service for allowing dangerous, dangerous knives to be dropped off at the homes of young, impressionable children. It's called "The Postman Always Rings Twice," not "The Homicidal Maniac Always Rings Twice."

    And the parents, such horrid parents, for using knives in front of their children, cutting meat and chicken like so many innocent bystanders.

    Home kitchens should have all utensils tethered to the walls like in prisons. I've seen it on TV. I've never heard about anyone getting stabbed in a prison kitchen.

    Now how much would you pay? In dollars or the souls of your victims?

    I prefer the good old days of clean cut television. Wholesome programming like "Leave It To Beaver." But can anyone help me remember what Beaver's last name was?
  • Knife stabbing? (Score:4, Informative)

    by itsdapead (734413) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:17PM (#27154497)

    Taylor's son, Damilola Taylor, was killed in November 2000 at the age of 10 by knife stabbing."

    Actually, although it doesn't make it any less tragic, I'm pretty sure he was stabbed with a broken bottle [wikipedia.org]...

    Before you ask, in the UK bottles are only taxed heavily if they contain alcohol.

  • by 91degrees (207121) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:36PM (#27154819) Journal
    While I have every sympathy for the poor man, it's not a good idea to let the victims of crime determine how to prevent it. Their judgement tends not to be the most balanced.

    He doesn't know what the causal relationship is between knife crime and games, nor does he have any idea what the effect will be on demand for games should they be taxed (it's possible that the publishers would end up swallowing a large part of it because games are presumably at the price which maximises profit*number of sales).
  • by Areyoukiddingme (1289470) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @01:39PM (#27154877)

    Not to be rude or anything, but maybe he shouldn't have named his son Damilola? With a name like that, the kid was doomed to be either the victim of a gang or the leader of a gang...

    Seriously though, there's too many things wrong with the whole story to do more than begin to point them out. He's trying to legislate his grief, which has been a bad idea since the beginning of time (and the reason a lot of humanity has gotten away from the idea of kings). And in the process, he totally missed his mark. If he wants to legislate something, he should consider what went wrong in the schoolyard.

    Why, with the UK's omnipresent surveillance and nanny state, did no one notice that a pack of kids had gone all Lord of the Flies on the playground? Could it be that the surveillance of everything DOESN'T WORK? That it induces a sense of false security on the part of adult supervision, eliminates the idea that personal responsibility should be inculcated in kids, and does absolutely nothing to address any of the root causes of gang violence? Could it be that by passing law after law after stupid assinine law that a contempt for the law has been bred into the citizenry? And now he wants to add another stupid assinine law...

    A certain Biblical quote is apropos: You reap what you sow.

  • by w0mprat (1317953) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @02:04PM (#27155261)
    Tonight I'm going to start on a flash game. Basically your an intoxicated youth, you run around knifing people in town centres trying to stay off CCTV (because that's what youths do I understand), you need to steal bottles of liqour and syringes as power ups. If you drink too much your screen blurs, you fall down and The Fuzz get you, if you sober up, you go back to school get a job and the game is over. Watch out for the CCTV. What shall I call it? "Tax This!"
  • by damburger (981828) on Wednesday March 11, 2009 @03:05PM (#27156259)

    They destroyed industrial communities. They gave the police virtually unlimited powers to stop and search young people. They established a foreign policy of might-makes-right and went out of their way to antagonize and alienate immigrant communities. They lied, took bribes, started wars, incited racism, crushed civil liberties, and they are still standing trying to talk like statesmen.

    And computer games are to blame when the kids go berserk? Fucking retarded.

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