More Claims From NSA Whistleblower Russell Tice 271
eldavojohn writes "Russell Tice, former NSA employee & whistleblower, has revealed yet more details claiming that wiretapping was combined with credit card data to target civilians. He also suggests the CEOs of major companies hold the truth: 'To get at what's really going on here, the CEOs of these telecom companies, and also of the banking and credit card companies, and any other company where you have big databases, those are the people you have to haul in to Congress and tell them you better tell the truth.' Will Congress follow his suggestions?"
This adds to information revealed by Tice last week that the wiretaps targeted journalists in particular.
Most media outlets ignoring this (Score:5, Informative)
It's interesting that most media outlets are ignoring this. Of course, it took them a little time to get onto the original NSA/AT&T story, which broke online (at Wired, I think) before it went mainstream. When I read it online, I made sure to send messages to several media outlets, including CNN, about this. I never got any replies, but it was nice to see them pick up on the story, and I like to think that maybe I helped the process along.
What I'm trying to say is that it wouldn't hurt for some folks here to take a few minutes to contact one or more news outlets and send them links to the video interviews on MSNBC, Wired articles, etc. Whether this story is real or fabricated is unknown at this point, but it's potentially big enough that it needs wide coverage.
So let's all send this in to CNN, the New York Times, Washington Post, etc. and see if they haven't covered it because they aren't aware of it or because they're deliberately ignoring it.
Re:Hard evidence (Score:5, Informative)
It's only treason if it's true.
In other words, "you were right, go directly to jail, do not pass Go."
Seems to me he is playing his best card by stirring things up and trying to shame Congress and the administration into doing their jobs.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Moron (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why does Obama support this? (Score:2, Informative)
What makes you think he does?
Because he voted for a bill which: [wikipedia.org]
Sounds pretty "What 4th Amendment?" to me.
Re:Why does Obama support this? (Score:3, Informative)
What about the order to close the Guantanamo Bay detention facility over the next year?
What about his executive order disallowing any interrogation techniques not defined in the Army Field Manual (i.e. no waterboarding, no torture)?
What about telling the EPA to look into letting California define their own, stricter auto emissions standards [reuters.com] (instead of locking them to the federal standards like Bush did)?
What about signing the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act just yesterday?
What about striking down Bush's ban on giving federal money to international groups that perform abortions or provide abortion information? [huffingtonpost.com] You could make an argument about abortion here, depending on which side of the issue you stand, but this money is also used for other medical procedures performed by these organizations.
He's done more good in one week than GWB did in 8 long years.
Re:Hard evidence (Score:5, Informative)
The CEO of Qwest Communications made the same claim and he ended up in jail [washingtonpost.com]. They were the only telco that refused to turn over caller records without a proper subpoena. He also claims that the wiretapping program began before 9-11. And he isn't the only one [wired.com].
Re:Hard evidence (Score:2, Informative)
"this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth"
Our Savior, the Almighty, the All Powerful, the One, Barry.
Re:Yeah, you drank the coolaid (Score:5, Informative)
The Obama administration is continuing to advance the same legal arguments the Bush administration used.
Empiricism puts the lie to your lies: "In a broad swipe at the Bush administration's lawyers, Obama nullified every legal order and opinion on interrogations issued by any lawyer in the executive branch after September 11, 2001," the Post added." [google.com]
Obama isn't a saint, and I haven't said he is. But is Obama better than Bush by any number of substantive measures, just a week or two into his first administration? You bet he is.
Re:Hard evidence (Score:1, Informative)
Hell, Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus, but no one goes around calling him, "evil".
Perhaps I'm seeking an "OMG -1 troll" for this but in truth.. as a lover of the Constitution and from a position of freedom I need to say.. the truth is Lincoln was no hero.
He was the first Dictator of the United states. A despotic tyrant that shredded the constitution and even had newspaper reporters arrested. The man who is hailed for the Emancipation Proclamation that freed slaves in the south (where he had no control) but kept them in bondage in the north. Lincoln started a unconstitutional draft, unconstitutional military spending, the suspending of habeas corpus that allowed thousands to be imprisoned for nothing more than voicing an opinion against the war... A war.. where several states simply wanted to leave a so called "voluntary union" they entered into.
No.. he wasn't evil.. he was FUCKING EVIL, and could have schooled Bush and Cheney on a few things.
Of interest also.. is if you look at this shot of his chair at the Lincoln memorial http://www.destination360.com/north-america/us/washington-dc/images/s/washington-dc-lincoln-memorial-s.jpg [destination360.com] There are fasces on his chair, you have seen them before but might not know what they mean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces [wikipedia.org] Fasces are where we derive the term "fascist". The individuals are the rods, bound by a cord or "the state", and anyone who is not.. gets the axe.
Re:Hard evidence (Score:4, Informative)
Perhaps I'm seeking an "OMG -1 troll" for this but in truth.. from a position of freedom I need to say.. the truth is Lincoln was no hero.
He was the first Dictator of the United states. A Despotic tyrant that shredded the constitution and even had newspaper reporters arrested. The man who is hailed for the Emancipation Proclamation that freed slaves in the south (where he had no control) but kept them in bondage in the north. Lincoln started a unconstitutional draft, unconstitutional military spending, the suspending of habeas corpus that allowed thousands to be imprisoned for voicing an opinion against the war.
No.. he wasn't evil.. he was FUCKING EVIL, and could have schooled Bush and Cheney on a few things.
Of interest also.. is if you look at this shot of his chair at the Lincoln memorial http://www.destination360.com/north-america/us/washington-dc/images/s/washington-dc-lincoln-memorial-s.jpg [destination360.com] There are fasces on his chair, you have seen them before but might not know what they mean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces [wikipedia.org] Fasces are where we derive the term "fascist". The individuals are the rods, bound by a cord or "the state", and anyone who is not.. gets the axe.
Re:Hard evidence (Score:4, Informative)
Fasces - the original symbol of Roman power. A Senator's posse would carry the bundle where they went and untie it for use in rough situations. Whoever his best warrior was would grab the ax, everyone else grabs a stick and starts smashing heads.
Re:Hard evidence (Score:2, Informative)
I think many people forget that Lincoln was a politician. Politicians by nature try to build the largest coalition possible to enable them to win in an election. At the same time one has to remember during the Lincoln-Douglas debate:
1) Douglas explicitly stated, "I am opposed to taking any step that recognizes the Negro man or the Indian as the equal of the white man." ... true, let us tear it out! [Cries of "no, no!"] Let us stick to it then, let us stand firmly by it then.
2) Lincoln did express some white supremacist ideas during the debates because he was campaigning in Southern Illinois, but compared with Douglas he was by far more on the side of equality.
3) I cannot state this better than the book, Lies My Teacher Told Me:
Lincoln's ideas about race were more complicated than Douglas's, however. The day after Douglas declared for white supremacy in Chicago, saying the issues were "distinctly drawn," Lincoln replied and indeed drew the issue distinctly:
I should like to know if taking this old Declaration of Independence, which declares that all men are equal upon principle, and making exceptions to it--where will it stop? If one man says it does not mean a Negro, why does not another say it does not mean some other man? If that Declaration is not
Those hardly sound like the words of someone who wasn't having some deep thoughts about equality, but I agree he didn't vigorously proclaim it explicitly from the mountaintop while campaigning for President the first time. His ideas on race grew during his Presidency, and this is one of the great reasons he was such a good President.