Visitors To US Now Required To Register Online 734
mytrip sends a reminder that starting today, visitors to the US from 35 visa-waiver countries will be required to register online with the Department of Homeland Security in advance. The DHS is asking people to go online for the ESTA program 72 hours before traveling, but they can register any amount of time ahead. Approval, once granted, is good for 2 years. DHS says that most applications are approved in 4 seconds. If an application is rejected, the traveler will have to go to a US embassy and get a visa. CNet reports that information from applications will be retained for 12 years, and eventually up to 75 years.
America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, you are ok. Code is simple (Score:5, Funny)
Code is simple on the backkend
boolean reject=false;
if (name.matches("m(o|u)h(a|u)m{1,2}(a|e)d") {
reject = true;
}
Only thing I can't figure out, why the hell it takes 4 seconds to execute such simple code. Must be perl or java, maybe network latency.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
My wife and I were looking at holidaying in the US for the first time in 5 or so years. We'd previously decided not to based on the Presedent, now we probably won't because of the queues at the entry barrier.
The requirements may not be onerous compared to other countries, but that doesn't mean they aren't too onerous to attract people.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:4, Funny)
I'm sure you'll find things much different at your ultimate destination.
So getting past Saint Peter is easier than getting into the US...
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. All you have to do is have your sins forgiven, and you can get into Heaven. As for getting into the States, even if you've done your jail time for your crime, you can still be barred.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
I have no problem with making inmates work or charging them for their living expenses. I have a problem with the idea that anyone should make a profit on it, EVER. I don't mind people being paid wages, that's not what I'm talking about. Prisons should be an investment in our future, not an investment for a financial return.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:4, Insightful)
Does that include the manufacturers, importers, exporters, pushers, etc? Or is that just the end users?
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:4, Insightful)
Personally I don't see why any non-violent criminal has to spend a significant amount of time in the slammer, though I have heard some convincing arguments that it does work for white collar crime.
My opinion is that the side-effects of the "war on drugs" are far worse than the effects of drug addiction. Turf wars and gang violence affect people who want nothing to do with drugs, whereas legalized drugs would primarily hurt users and those closest to the users.
Further, I'd argue that the taxes collected on legalized drugs could be fed back into treatment centers and anti-drug propaganda/education.
You are missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody hates the US, you guys over there just love to feel victims. YOu send your army all around the place, kill thousands of people everywhere (you don't ever bother to account for them) and don't expect that some resentment will be felt elsewhere.
Honestly, get real.
What many people are saying is that the system does not show a friendly attitude, combine that with the horrendous reception you have when arriving to US airports (I have seen things that really make me puke) and you have a recipe for disenfranchisement.
I used to visit the US around once or twice a year, but every time it became more trying, nowadays you are treated like a potential criminal, with a record of your entries, your laptop can be confiscated without any reason and without you having any possibility of redress and if you are in the unfortunate position of being mistaken as a terrorist (it has happened) then all the bets are off.
Unless all this changes people like me, with a genuine interest to learn more about the US, will not visit your country.
If you class the above as hate is more your problem than anybody else's.
Re:You are missing the point. (Score:5, Informative)
I'll go one further.
I am an American, living abroad, and I, too, used to go home once or twice a year to see friends and family.
I haven't been back for almost 2 years, but I'm scheduling a trip now, and dreading it.
My wife is foreign, so that means that even if I am spared the various indignities and hassles (and honestly, citizens aren't spared much of those), I still have to go through them with her. The one time we went through immigration separately like we are supposed to (me in the citizen line, her in the visitor line), they almost didn't let her in because she only had $5 on her and was staying for three weeks (evidently the DHS hasn't gotten the memo about ATMs yet). She was saying that she was married to an American, but US embassies won't even let you register your marriage anywhere with them, so of course there's no record of that (married in Japan). I was finished with immigration and was standing just past the booth, waiting for my wife to appear and getting really panicky, when I was ordered to leave. I went into the hallway and stood at the very edge so I could still see most of the immigration booth, and finally heard my wife's voice calling my name. I looked way down the line and saw a bunch of black-paramilitary-uniformed DHS personnel gathering around her, waving frantically to me. I waved back (still not allowed to join her), and that was somehow proof that we were married and they let her through.
Now we go together and if they don't like it I just play dumb.
Also, the TSA has, on two occasions, obviously dumped our luggage onto a floor to check it, then just scooped it back into the bag. They neglected to screw the top of a bottle of shampoo back on after opening it, and ruined all the gifts for my wife's family in that bag. They scratched my mint Strat that I was bringing back to the US to sell.
And on top of all of this, every person, government or private, at the airport, is curt, rude, and overbearing. Toss into that the possibility that my laptop could be confiscated or my drive mirrored or worse, and going home to see family has become such a burden that I just plain don't do it anymore.
The whole situation is absolutely unforgivable.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A good friend of mine refuses nowadays to return to the US, she is a us-born woman with filipino roots living in finland nowadays with her (finnish) husband.
After twice being submitted to full strip searches entering her homecountry, she just couldn't stand it anymore.
Herd instict (Score:5, Insightful)
Afaik, no state on this planet has my fingerprints yet, and I do not plan on handing them over any time soon. If that means not to travel to foreign countries where I would love to go to, so be it. I'll watch documentaries instead.
I have my principles, and a change of law will not change them!
Re:Herd instict (Score:4, Insightful)
Afaik, no state on this planet has my fingerprints yet, and I do not plan on handing them over any time soon
I had to hand them over just to get a job (New York State requires them if you work for an OMH licensed facility) so I'm already "screwed" in this sense. I don't happen to agree with most of these policies but I do understand the motivation behind them. To each their own I suppose -- but I wouldn't be deterred from coming to the EU if I had to cough up my prints and/or a picture.
In any case, the outrage over this article is completely misplaced. RTFA -- they aren't requesting any information beyond that which is already requested on the paper forms you fill out in-flight. It seems to me that filling them out online 72 hours in advance isn't particularly burdensome.
Re:Herd instict (Score:4, Interesting)
Afaik, no state on this planet has my fingerprints yet, and I do not plan on handing them over any time soon
I had to hand them over just to get a job (New York State requires them if you work for an OMH licensed facility) so I'm already "screwed" in this sense.
For my contract at a school district in Pennsylvania I had to do a child abuse background check (Which had to be mailed in with a $10 money order, no personal checks), a $10 State Police background check, and $40 to have my prints put on file with the FBI/checked with the FBI via the local intermediate unit. It's widely required at other places of employment, as well.
Re:Herd instict (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's widely required at other places of employment, as well.
And for many types of licenses -- liquor licenses, insurance agent/broker licenses, teacher licenses, CPA license, medical license, pistol permits, etc, etc, etc. People rarely complain about any of those but all of a sudden if the government wants to verify the identity of people crossing the border it's a burden and a sign of the impending police state?
Re:Herd instict (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, people often complain about all of those as well, especially "pistol permits" as you've put it, given than the Second Amendment guarantees the RIGHT to bear arms, not the right to get permission from the government, provided you can provide them with a good enough reason, then pay them and subject yourself to intense scrutiny, and then MAYBE get the right to bear arms in the end.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
given than the Second Amendment guarantees the RIGHT to bear arms, not the right to get permission from the government
Why do people always ignore the first bit of the amendment;
A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
That and we consistently ignore the the use of the term "the people", which is used instead of "persons". It does NOT connote that "everyone should have unrestricted access to guns". The People != Individuals in the original use of the term (meaning in the sense the framers were using).
It also does not contain any legislative conte
Re:Herd instict (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, people complain about those all the time. Nobody listens, however; the complainers are filed under the categories of "whiner", "wacko libertarian nutcase", "pedophile", etc. Once these entry requirements are around for a while, any remaining complainers will be filed under the same category.
Re:Herd instict (Score:5, Insightful)
though getting a new pasport requires fingerprinting...
In fact, EU coutries wouldn't have introduced biometric passports if the US hadn't requested them!
Re:Herd instict (Score:4, Interesting)
Your government keeps your prints when you haven't been convicted of anything?
Here in Canada they take your prints upon arrest and are supposed to destroy them IIRC 6 months after acquittal.
Re:Herd instict (Score:4, Funny)
Your government keeps your prints when you haven't been convicted of anything? Here in Canada they take your prints upon arrest and are supposed to destroy them IIRC 6 months after acquittal.
You're Canadian, eh?
Pleased to meet you. I'm from the real world.
Where I'm from, the police state says it destroys everything. And it does. Of course, before it does, it gives copies to the FBI, as a courtesy.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Hell, I wasn't even arrested. I was served with a summons to appear at trial, and mailed a letter to report to the courthouse for fingerprinting about a week before the trial.
And I know nobody really cares, but just in case anyone wondered, I was charged with Trespassing in the 3rd Degree when I went back to my old high school to get my transcript while I was back home visiting, the new vice principal found me chatting with the office staff and told me to come back after the school day ended if I wanted to
Re: (Score:3)
Well, since "nearly all applications would be approved in less than 10 seconds", then I imagine that you'd have no problems at all.
Unless, of course, your application would be rejected (they didn't want you at all), or "pending" (they can't check up on you as quickly as they'd like, for whatever reason).
In which case it's pretty safe to say that you'd be delayed by more than 72 hours under the OLD process.
In addition "The U.S. Homeland Security Depart
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, it's "Do not pass go, take the next plane home, and if you were from a country in the visa waiver program, you can forget about that now and go to the nearest consulate to get an actual tourist visa every time you want to enter the States again since you've been denied entry once."
If you didn't figure it out ahead of time before getting on the plane then don't expect me to have much sympathy for you. Every single time I've traveled overseas (even to places I've already been) I've done my homework to find out in advance what the entry/exit requirements are and to make sure those requirements haven't changed since the last time I traveled.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are going to be deterred from coming to the US over the requirement that you register online and cough up some fingerprints I suppose you really didn't care that much about coming in the first place anyway, did you?
This is a fallacy. If he cares about not handing over his fingerprints to foreign Governments, that doesn't imply he doesn't care about going to the country. On the contrary, if he didn't care about going, why would he care about the requirements?
but our entry/exit requirements still aren't that onerous compared to other countries I can think of.
Ah, it's the "But there are worse countries!" argument. Well sure there are worse countries - not exactly a ringing endorsement. Chances are the OP doesn't go there, either.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
The assumption that all foreigners are (potential) terrorists is a slap in the face of hospitality.
And it totally disregards the fact that there are quite some criminals among USA residents.
And then consider that the USA owns a prison where you can be held without any trial or human rights, and that the USA is vetoing all UN resolutions against Israel that would lead to peace in the middle east...
I said it before, americans are mostly nice people, but their government are still living in the cold war times. Luckily there are still a lot of other really nice countries that welcome my tourist euros.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
The one true problem with this is that it is basically a one-sided reintroduction of a visa-requirement. The visa-waiver countries are in bilateral agreements not to require visas from each other's people for short visits. Since the new requirement isn't just an "at the time of entry" border security procedure, but instead requires the visitor to get a permission to enter the country at least 3 days prior to the visit, it is essentially a form of visa-requirement.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Interesting)
Today, the process does not incur any cost, is almost instantaneous, and you do not have to surrender your passport, answer intrusive questions during a life interview that that could go anywhere, depending on your answers and whims of the interviewer.
The incremental change is that you have to be fingerprinted on your arrival in the US.
I think that the new system is an improvement over the old one. You all seem to forget that international travel used to be much more restrictive and intrusive.
Travel within the EU - while without any apparent border controls - is tightly controlled, over a much wider area, with tight cooperation from police, customs and other agencies. It only appears on the ground to be open and free.
Talk to people that traveled in Europe and beyond in the 70's and 80's about travel restrictions. Not to mention Eastern bloc countries...
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Interesting)
Heck, I traveled a lot in the 1970's. Went to the USSR, went to Yugoslavia, Japan, India, etc. Never had to give fingerprints and (at least for the Common Market), the process was pretty painless.
People used to make jokes about the USSR because of the difficulty and arbitrariness of their visa process. Just saying...
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Informative)
When I select a destination for my holidays, I browse my favorite web sites, select the destination, pays and that's it. All I need is my passport if I travel outside the EU. And even outside of it, a lot of countries only need my ID card (Turkey, Norway, Switzerland, Morocco and dozens of others).
I'm simply not used to such a procedure. I'm not used to give my private data to a foreign state. I don't like it. (granted if my business requires it, I will do it).
Okay I'm just a tourist but some developed countries make some of their biggest incomes out of it (Spain, France, Italy, etc.). With so many harassment you feel quite insecure (feeling like they could stop you at the airport and ruin your holidays for ludicrous reasons).
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
True, that's a pretty low barrier.
But So What?.....
Every half motivated tourist we don't get is money not in our (US) economy.
Let's lock the Department of Homeland FUD out and let the tourists in.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's lock the Department of Homeland FUD out and let the tourists in.
I'm all for abolishing the Department of Homeland Security. I fail to see how creating one mega-bureaucracy makes us any safer.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Try around 45 federal agencies that conduct criminal investigations, doesn't really classify as mega-bureaucracy. I'd almost say we should combine these together and cut down on some waste.
DHS
USCG
CBP
USBP
ICE
FAMS
FPS
USSS
TSA
ATF
DEA
FBI
BOP
USMS
DSS (Part of the Bureau of Diplomatic Security)
IRS
TIGTA
USMP
United States Treasury Police
DCIS
USPPD
Army CID
US Army Miliary Police Corp
Air Force OSI
Air Force Security Forces
NCIS
ONI Police
CGIS
Marine Corps Provost Marshal's Office
OIG
FDA
USDA
USDI
National Parks Service
Federal Reserve
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Interesting)
It is utter irony of course that the US is so much for boasting freedom etc, but they are implementing measures that are supposedly done in the interest of security without really adding much of anything (beyond annoyance and essentially making the entire visa waiver program useless). It does however seem to indicate just what the US government thinks about the rest of the world: no one can be trusted.
Of course, since apparently green card holders now will be subjected to the ridiculous US VISIT requirements as well, that distruct shouldn't surprise anyone.
Sad thing is... I'd be willing to bet money that Obama won't change any of this during his presidency, which (to me) would be a clear indication that this isn't just the action of an adminstration under a crazy shrub, but rather a consistent move towards protectionism and isolation.
Sad sad sad...
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
"but our entry/exit requirements still aren't that onerous compared to other countries I can think of"
My (ex) mother in law, an Aussie girl through and through, traveled across Europe with a couple of girlfriends as a twenty year old in 1973. Part of the trip was traveling through Soviet Russia and various parts of the Eastern Bloc. They searched her bag at each border, required to a see a passport, asked some questions, granted temporary visas and that was that. Having her bags opened and searched by a stranger openly wielding an automatic rifle was seen as quite disgustingly 'totalitarian' at the time.
The US is far more locked down to foreigners than the menacing and "evil" totalitarian state of Soviet Russia was in 1973.
Accepting it and making excuses ensures that it will continue on its path to the inevitable end.
Fifteen years ago massive government fingerprint databases were purely the domain of ranting conspiracy nuts...oops.
Ten years ago the idea that everyone entering the country would be fingerprinted was absolutely laughable...oops.
And yet here we are. So whats next on the list to be excused away?
This rubbish 'security theatre' (when did totalitarianism get such a cute name?) is something that's sweeping across the western world and it needs to stop. It really does, because we (average, reasonably people) are losing ground rapidly and very soon if it continues at this rate a lot more of this bullshit is going to start having an negative effect on the average man on the street. Once that happens there's no going back.
Re: (Score:3)
Exactly right. A lot of us don't come to the States because we want to, but because we have to. If you live anywhere near the US and want to travel anywhere else, odds are very high that you're going to have to pass through a US airport. Back in the pre-9/11 days, it was just annoying, an extra hop. Now, it's a freaking nightmare. My fingerprints are on file just because I wanted (or for business, needed) to
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Our DNA database contains thousands of people who have never been criminally convicted
Then vote the fucking assholes in the Surveillance^WLabour Party out of office. In my home state the police have to destroy your fingerprints/DNA if you are arrested for a crime and later cleared (via dismissal or acquittal) of having committed that crime. I'm growing weary of hearing Britons whine about your surveillance soceity while you keep electing the same assholes who are busy setting it up. Contrast this to the outage in the US over the Real-ID scheme. We've actually had quite a few states come out and say they won't take part in it. Where's that spirit in the mother country?
I find it ironic that your unelected upper house is the voice of sanity in the UK. Perhaps you made a mistake when you stripped them of all their power?
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Where's that spirit in the mother country?
I honestly think of the U.K. as a former democracy. The forms are there, but they don't actually seem to mean anything and the state does whatever it wants. (Oh, there are protest marches, but they seem to be as irrelevant as Garry Kasparov protesting outside the Kremlin.)
We are about to find out whether that is also true in the USA.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Interesting)
We are about to find out whether that is also true in the USA.
I don't think it is. Yet anyway. How many states stood up and flipped Washington off over real-id? Our system is more decentralized than the UK's. That's one of the reasons I'm leery of the geniuses that think we should continue to expand the power of the Federal Government. Personally I'd chop the Federal Government down to size and shift the responsibility for the social safety net to the states.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It is indeed ironic, but I think you'll find that most of that work was done in the 1911 parliament act [schoolnet.co.uk]. Can't blame the Dear Leader (aka Tony Blair) for that one. They have got plans to get rid of hereditary peers, but nothing's happened as yet.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Insightful)
"I'm growing weary of hearing Britons whine about your surveillance soceity while you keep electing the same assholes who are busy setting it up."
78% of Britons did not vote for Labour in the last election. More than three quarters of Britons did not want them, but they got them anyway.
If you understood that minor little fact, and that the Tory party got more votes than Labour in England but lost to Labour nation-wide because of Scottish Labour voters, and that the current Prime Minister was not elected to that role but merely placed there by his party, then you might understand why so many Britons -- particularly the English majority, who are now the only ones who don't have their own Parliament -- are a bit upset with their government.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Informative)
We only get to vote once every five years, and then they only need 35% of the vote to win power.
Two thirds of us voted Labour out in 2005 yet they're still here. You must have confused Britain with a democracy or something.
It was the Labour government who reformed the House of Lords and filled it with their own friends and donors. Like I said, you're thinking of democracies. Even the Germans got to vote for Hitler.
I thought you guys didn't like dictators? (Score:3, Insightful)
"I find it ironic that your unelected upper house is the voice of sanity in the UK. Perhaps you made a mistake when you stripped them of all their power?"
No mistake there at all buddy. People came to their right senses and realised that being ruled by unelected bodies was not a good idea (we're still working on the monarchy). Having a hereditary, unelected body of folk making the laws might seem a really cute idea from 3000 miles away but it's a bit archaic in this day and age. Somebody gets to make laws an
Re:Compared to other countries? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not prepared to travel to the states, since the state department and I differ on what we consider reasonable amounts of data being collected on my entry. If that's what I have to give your government to get in, then screw it.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, you're lying, and this story has fuck all to do with a decision to come to the US you may or may not have actually made, but it's funny that you'd choose to say the same retarded shit that pops up immediately in these conversations.
Me lying? See Most of the time I booked my holidays a couple of days before taking them. I never know, a big project could force me to stay home.
I simply browse the web and I try to find a place I can afford. Strictly nothing planned. I have been in southern asia, eastern europe, middle east, etc. There are certainly places I'd like to visit in the states but there are also a lot of things outside of it.
I take holidays one time per year, it means if somebody ruins them like:
You just don't get it. (Score:5, Interesting)
I have travelled all around the world.
Form Canada to South Africa, Vietnam, Namibia, all of Western Europe. You name it.
Your immigration procedures are only comparable to those in Vietnam, a communist dictatorship.
If that makes you feel great, all the power to you, if it was my country it would give me pause for thought: it would seem that to be safe you have to emulate totalitarian attitudes.
If you think that poster is lying think again. I go back home frequently and flights with stop overs in the US are cheaper, but just to think about all the draconian, unnecessary procedures (I would be just in transit, no other country I know off needs you to apply for a visa in advance to go on transit) makes me feel sick. Thus I chose to fly using European or Canadian airlines, where I can change planes quickly, efficiently and with minimal fuss.
Every time I flight back home your country loses an average of $1500 that it would gain if the intrusive bureaucracy wasn't so unreasonable.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In ALL serioussness, if this trivial bit of beauracracy GENUINELY causes you to stay away, we're glad about it.
You, my fellow American, can fuck right off.
I have many friends that live internationally, and several family members. Eight years ago, was common to get three or four visits a year. Within four years, it became one a year (they came for my wedding). Since then nothing, because of crap like this.
You can speak for yourself, but don't you even begin to think you can speak for all of us.
Re:America, for one, welcomes... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's nice and friendly - look what you get as a pop-up as soon as you visit the registration page:
"You are about to access a Department of Homeland Security computer system. This computer system and data therein are property of the U.S. Government and provided for official U.S. Government information and use. There is no expectation of privacy when you use this computer system. The use of a password or any other security measure does not establish an expectation of privacy. By using this system, you consent to the terms set forth in this notice. You may not process classified national security information on this computer system. Access to this system is restricted to authorized users only. Unauthorized access, use, or modification of this system or of data contained herein, or in transit to/from this system, may constitute a violation of section 1030 of title 18 of the U.S. Code and other criminal laws. Anyone who accesses a Federal computer system without authorization or exceeds access authority, or obtains, alters, damages, destroys, or discloses information, or prevents authorized use of information on the computer system, may be subject to penalties, fines or imprisonment. This computer system and any related equipment is subject to monitoring for administrative oversight, law enforcement, criminal investigative purposes, inquiries into alleged wrongdoing or misuse, and to ensure proper performance of applicable security features and procedures. DHS may conduct monitoring activities without further notice."
*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Informative)
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
Petaris (and I'm going on a tangent as well; readers not interested in Japan, feel free to skip), at least your wife will only have to give her fingerprints and data once; as you surely know, even if you were a permanent resident of Japan, you would still be fingerprinted, photographed, and questioned each and every time you re-entered Japan. And you have to acquire and pay for a $30 re-entry permit, to be used upon your return, before departing Japan!
(Think about that... a tourist can enter Japan free of charge, without any advance notice, yet someone who already resides in Japan and presumably has been vetted by the government has the same fingerprint/photo requirements as an out-of-the-blue tourist, and has to pay for the privilege!)
And in Japan, the US-style entry requirements are just the beginning. In Japan, police officers are empowered to function as immigration officials, and have no qualms about pulling non-Japanese-looking people aside and questioning them, particularly during politically sensitive events ilke the G8 summit, which was recently held in Hokkaido. They'll demand to see your Alien Registration Card, which all non-citizens are required to carry at all times and which contain enough personal information (printed in plain text!) to make an identity thief salivate.
I find this more egregious than anything done at the border, since you can prepare for a plane flight and psychologically ready yourself for their questions, but it's impossible to keep yourself on guard for random street stoppages.
Japan has managed to combine the most fascist parts of both the US system (severe border checks, personal information on file) and Europe's (mandatory ID cards which must be carried and shown to police on demand).
I don't doubt that politicians like Hatoyama are chuckling to themselves at what they've been able to get away with while the big bad evil-empire USA gets all the bad press and all the internet outrage. We all have to be on our guard, or all the world powers will take turns bootstrapping themselves into total police states.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Scaring tourists away much? (Score:5, Interesting)
Do people still visit that country?
I mean I don't even get a shopping card from our local supermarket because I don't think it's necessary for them to have my personal information...
I'm not a criminal, and I don't want to be treated as such. It would be would be debatable if they kept personal information for say a year or so and you could trust them to delete your information afterward.
Re:Scaring tourists away much? (Score:5, Informative)
Did anybody bother to RTFA?
Derwood Staeben, U.S. consul general in London, said nearly all applications would be approved in less than 10 seconds. He said travelers would not be required to give any more information than is already requested on the paper immigration forms, which are being replaced.
This information was already collected. Are we really supposed to believe that collecting it in advance instead of in-flight is really that burdensome? If this is all it takes to deter you from coming to the US then I'm guessing you weren't that serious about coming in the first place.
Re:Scaring tourists away much? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've visited the US several times for a month at a time. This was both pre- and post-"9/11". However I stopped going once the draconian identification measures got introduced at the border.
Now you might be a member of the crowd that goes "If you're innocent then you've got nothing to hide" but I'm more of a guy in the "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" crowd.
Re:Scaring tourists away much? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now you might be a member of the crowd that goes "If you're innocent then you've got nothing to hide" but I'm more of a guy in the "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" crowd.
I'm not a member of the former crowd. I'm actually a member of the latter crowd. Dive into my posting history if you care to do so.
I also recognize that every government on this planet exercises sovereignty over their borders and that said governments have a legitimate interest in preventing known bad actors from entering their country. It has nothing to do with "if you are innocent you have nothing to hide". Given the ease with which one can obtain falsified identification documents are you really that surprised that they've expanded the entry/exit process into biometrics?
Canada will deny you entry if you've been convicted of drug possession or DWI -- even if said conviction was a misdemeanor/civil affair if your home country. Why don't I see anybody complaining about that?
Re:Scaring tourists away much? (Score:5, Funny)
Canada will deny you entry if you've been convicted of drug possession or DWI -- even if said conviction was a misdemeanor/civil affair if your home country. Why don't I see anybody complaining about that?
Because nobody cares about Canada.
Really.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I also recognize that every government on this planet exercises sovereignty over their borders and that said governments have a legitimate interest in preventing known bad actors from entering their country. It has nothing to do with "if you are innocent you have nothing to hide". Given the ease with which one can obtain falsified identification documents are you really that surprised that they've expanded the entry/exit process into biometrics?
What you're missing, is this harassment only applies to legal entries. The borders remain utterly wide open for illegals. Regulations like this are only there to hassle middle class people or fools who still believe in the rule of law in the USA. The method of BSing the populous is to claim it'll solve terrorism or some other BS. So, if you don't want the "legal" hassle, fly into mexico or canada and simply walk across like everyone else. That plays into the other Orwellian theme of modern america, whi
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I guess they slipped up with Keanu Reeves.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
#2 is the reason why
Re:Scaring tourists away much? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have long ago given up on ever going back to the USA for any reason whatsoever (not because I can't but because I don't want to). And now this. They have the insolence to pretend that they have a right to preserve my personal information for the duration of my lifetime. That is too much. Now I am absolutely certain to never want to have anything to do with that country ever again.
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It's more fun to pollute their marketing database with incorrect data.
In this case there isn't that much the supermarket can do to to. Whereas a government can toss you in jail.
And another reason not to visit the US (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:And another reason not to visit the US (Score:4, Informative)
The thing is if you fly to Spain from outside the Schengen zone you have to do a similar thing, although your airline forwards the data on your behalf. And so on for the other Schengen countries (if a Schengen country doesn't currently require it then it'll be rolled out soon).
The main difference between the US and EU might be some aspect of data retention, where usually in the EU the data is deleted after one or two years and there are a few more limitations on who can get to see that data, unlike the US.
So effectively the US and the EU are equally screwed in this respect and each new 'advance' in technology on one side of the pond will end up appearing on the other side, sooner or later.
Registration not as bad retention time (Score:3)
It is a deep shame.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Obviously not the 60 million who voted Republican.
Not that new (Score:5, Informative)
The test itself isn't new, it's just online now. I've been filling out those forms for years, and might actually welcome the new procedure. I've frequently been told by flight attendants that the slightest mistake requires to fill out a new form. That includes the different ways some digits are written (1 and 7), writing in the wrong line etc. I've gotten used to it, but for some people it takes five or more tries to get it right which is highly annoying when they're seated next to you.
BTW: the questions are obviously ridiculous ("Are you traveling to the US to commit a crime?", "Have you been involved in a genocide?"). I guess the goal is to have more legal ammunition if you want to deport someone later.
MOD PARENT UP (Score:3, Interesting)
This is just an electronic form of the I-W94 Visa waiver form (or something like that) that you have to submit each time. Having this would actually be better than filling that paper thing.
Silly part is that now there are three "entry notifications": this, the paper form, and the notification you either do at the checkin/gate or is done by the travel agent. I guess they'll eventually be unified...
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
When you will in that form there is nobody who can help you. If you are too dumb to figure out the correct answer then you might replace the president of the USA. They don't want that. So just fill in the correct answer.
Cue the "I'm not going now" comments... (Score:4, Interesting)
Ok, time to cue the "I'm not going to the U.S. now" comments... this should be predictable.
The thing is, besides the inevitable furor from the tin-foil hatted crowd, is this policy a step in the wrong direction, or just a return to slightly stricter times? When I came to this country in the early 1970s it was required that we get visa's and passports, present them at the U.S. border, fill out extensive forms documenting our stay etc. And yet we were still thrilled to come here, despite some pretty awful things that had happened in the 60s. We had no doubt that our information was kept on file, and yet it was definitely worth it to come here.
So I am not sure if this policy is just a return to slightly stricter immigration control. If it is, can the policy work and is it necessary? Let's have some constructive discussion instead of whining please.
Re:Cue the "I'm not going now" comments... (Score:5, Insightful)
When I came to this country in the early 1970s it was required that we get visa's and passports, present them at the U.S. border, fill out extensive forms documenting our stay etc.
Sure - but saying that the political clock's been turned back 30-40 years isn't exactly something to be thrilled about. That's an immense step backwards. I'd like to think we'd move towards a society with easier movement in time, especially given that there is far more intercontinental communication between people (both business, and personal) than decades ago.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You've just made it harder for people to visit - hope that goes down well with your tourism industry. Most countries I can just turn up and get a 60 day tourist visa when I turn up - NZ, Argentina, etc. Of course, all the EU is open to me as well, as a British passport holder. Now the pound has tanked against the dollar, and the long standing shitty treatment of visitors by CBP, it's getting harder and harder to justify a trip to the US to myself. Not saying it's evil and wrong, but visitor numbers will dro
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So this is that then (Score:5, Insightful)
One more time the bigotry triumphs. Leader of the world, biggest and strongest army
Re:So this is that then (Score:5, Interesting)
When I started college 3 years ago I was actually planning on spending a year in the US just to see what the standards and discussions are like and to see whose history I'm studying here. Since then, each year, the American governments makes one shit move after another and my interest in actually visiting this country dwindles with every one.
My sincere advice to you is: DON'T. Every country has beautiful, impressive, and important sights to see. If you must travel abroad, go someplace nearby and minimally fascist.
The USA could really use your tourist dollars right now, but coming here and giving them to us would just be rewarding bad behavior, which only guarantees more of it.
Please, visit a country whose government supports personal freedom. Don't put your money into the USA. You're only funding global terrorism.
Cutting it fine (Score:5, Informative)
How will it affect Canadians? (Score:3, Interesting)
Being Canadian and having family that cross the border on a regular basis, how will this affect Canadians? Will we have to register online?
Canadians entering the states (who are driving, not flying) do not need anything other than a valid drivers license and a clean criminal record (which they look up upon entering).
If you are flying in, all the rules for everyone else is the same.
So, to reiterate, do Canadians driving into the country have pre-register online?
Re:How will it affect Canadians? (Score:4, Informative)
I just checked the official program site and this program does not apply to Canadians.
They waive visa, you waive rights. (Score:4, Informative)
Waiver of Rights: I have read and understand that I hereby waive for the duration of my travel authorization obtained via ESTA any rights to review or appeal of a U.S. Customs and Border Protection Officer's determination as to my admissibility, or to contest, other than on the basis of an application for asylum, any removal action arising from an application for admission under the Visa Waiver Program.
In addition to the above waiver, as a condition of each admission into the United States under the Visa Waiver Program, I agree that the submission of biometric identifiers (including fingerprints and photographs) during processing upon arrival in the United States shall reaffirm my waiver of any rights to review or appeal of a U.S. Customs and Border Protection Officer's determination as to my admissibility, or to contest, other than on the basis of an application for asylum, any removal action arising from an application for admission under the Visa Waiver Program.
So if you decide to travel, you do not have any right to question/appeal decision of the officer at the arrival airport. If he says you go back, you go back, without any possibility to talk with supervisor or explaining your case (you just waived that by submitting online request).
Re:They waive visa, you waive rights. (Score:5, Informative)
"You" (i.e., the foreign national) never had any rights to begin with. Just ask anyone who has had to get a US visa in the last 8 years (if not more). They rarely turn them down, the visa just never appears (which has the same effect, of course). And, there is no reason given and no appeal.
For non-USA citizens (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Most Americans never travel outside of North America and have no desire to do so.
2. The US government regards everybody except Canadians as potential illegal immigrants. Yes, even you EU guys and gals. Trust me when I tell you that while there are certainly American businesses that do want your money, my government really doesn't care if nobody comes over to visit.
3. Probably less than 1% of Americans know the visa requirements for foreigners to come here. Almost everybody I've talked to in the USA had no idea how difficult to impossible it is for citizens of non-Visa Waiver countries to get visas to come here. Almost all Americans think that Mexicans and others need only apply for visas to come here legally and they are simply too lazy to do so. I've seen shocked expressions on the faces of many people when they found out how difficult it truly can be to even visit here as a tourist. I've known of cases of legal immigrants who were unable to get tourist visas for family members to come here to visit.
So if you non-USA people expect us to "fix" our broken system, well, good luck with that because the truth is that almost nobody knows how it really works and almost nobody cares if it discourages you from coming here. That is reality. If you don't want to fill out an online form to come neither my government nor the vast majority of my fellow citizens care if you don't come because you don't like the rules. If you think this is some sort of meaningful protest, you are mistaken.
Re:For non-USA citizens (Score:4, Insightful)
As a naturalized citizen of the U.S., and having traveled the world when I was younger, I can tell you that this country is big enough for anyone to travel, with enough really wonderful places to visit and not have to visit anywhere else in the world. My father has traveled much more extensively than me, and he agrees that it is absolutely not necessary to visit other countries if you don't want to. We have variation in topography (mountains, plains), beaches, lakes, oceans, mountains... you name it. You can spend a lifetime, and certainly a retirement visiting the sights and never visit a place twice or run out of things to do... hence the popularity of Recreational Vehicles (RVs) here.
What is missing is history. With the exception of some native settlements in the West, everything here is less than a few hundred years old. Our "oldest" places are those dedicated to our revolutionary and civil war periods. When going to Europe one is struck immediately by the history - that certain buildings have been standing for centuries, even things as mundane as apartments. In NY City, if you have an old Brownstone built in the 1890s you have an old building. If you don't have a desire to relive old history, for most people that seems to be visiting the countries where their ancestors lived, then . I would say that most people here are quite satisfied to stay here... plus it is really expensive to leave, having to fly 3,000 miles to get to Europe, whereas if you live in Europe you can visit 20 countries in 10 days and get a different cultural experience at each one.
Re:For non-USA citizens (Score:5, Insightful)
Not just history but culture, language, attitudes, food, music, scenery (not all the marvels of the natural world are contained in the US), art, ...
Yep, there's a lot of natural beauty to see in the US but there's a hell of a lot more of it outside the US plus all the other things that makes travel broaden the mind...
Re:For non-USA citizens (Score:4, Interesting)
this country is big enough for anyone to travel, with enough really wonderful places to visit and not have to visit anywhere else in the world.
And never be exposed to a different culture than the one they already know.
There's plenty of neat places in all the countries in the world to keep people busy their entire lives, but there's more to travel than kodak moments.
Poorly implemented, especially for Japan (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm a US citizen living in Japan, and I wanted to see what my friends and coworkers will have to deal with, so I checked out the Japanese version of the registration website.
It's very poorly planned out in the following ways:
1. Translation is confusing and broken in parts. There were sentences that just broke off halfway through.
2. Due to the details of Japanese text input on computers, you have to specifically tell users to enter single-byte characters in text forms, and actually enforce the this requirement with proper input validation because many people don't really understand the difference. This is unless, of course, you're prepared to handle double-byte alphanumerics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullwidth_form) on the back end. Anyway, the form tells you to enter your info in the Latin alphabet (romaji), but nowhere does it specify single-byte. I wanted to test the form to see how well it coped with double-byte characters, but I didn't want the DHS knocking down my door in the middle of the night.
3. The website is not designed with mobile access in mind (or so I assume; I couldn't even connect to the site on my AU phone). Many, many Japanese people don't have PCs, and do all their internet activities on their mobile phones with very limited browsers.
4. The website does no geo sniffing and ignores preferred language settings, defaulting to English and throwing up a giant legalese JavaScript popup. Talk about unfriendly.
Ultimately I suspect that people will end up leaving all this bullshit to travel agents, and very few people will personally deal with the system on any level (unless that's not allowed; of course I didn't RTFA).
3000 blank passports and visas stolen in England (Score:4, Informative)
There is no story here (Score:3, Insightful)
Countries Affected (Score:5, Informative)
If anyone is wondering, here's a list of the 35 visa-waiver countries:
Andorra
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brunei
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Japan
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Monaco
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Portugal
Republic of Malta
San Marino
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Korea
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
Not just for those who want to visit the US.. (Score:3, Interesting)
You folks don't know the half of it..
My flight to London from Australia went via LA recently. I had to sign a "visa waiver" that basically said I waived all my rights whilst in transit in LA.
I had no intention of entering the USA at all. I was "in transit" from Australia to London.
However, I was directed through USA imigration into the baggage claim area (my baggage didn't leave the plane of course..) and then herded back around immigration into the transit lounge.
At the immigration desk I was photographed and fingerprinted. When I stated that I didn't want to enter the USA and asked why I was being fingerprinted, the immigration officer was quite rude and basically said "What do you have to hide?".
I found the whole incident truly scary and it made me quite sick to my stomach. I will never take any flight that transits the USA ever again and I will certainly never visit the USA.
Two things get me about this.
The first is that the process effectively mixed me (an in-transit passenger) with visitors to the USA _after_ immigration. This is stupidity of the highest level.
The second is that the USA now have my photo and fingerprints on record against my will and I have absolutely no say in how those records are used or stored.
During this experience I had the awful thought that if my photo happened to match some dickhead criminal, I could have been thrown in a USA prison, something that doesn't really appeal to me.
I advise anyone traveling overseas to avoid the USA if at all possible.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
C) Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were you involved , in any way, in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies?
Does that include being a victim?
Re:Doesn't bother me, since I never plan to go. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Yeah, if your caught on a battlefield while engaged in hostilities against US forces. Do you have a single citation for that happening to somebody at the border or are you just blowing smoke?"
Lol "battlefield", is that what they tell you?
"Maher Arar, a Syrian-born dual Syrian and Canadian citizen, was detained at Kennedy International Airport on 26 September 2002, by US Immigration and Naturalization Service officials. He was heading home to Canada after a family holiday in Tunisia. After almost two weeks, enduring hours of interrogation chained, he was sent, shackled and bound, in a private jet to Jordan and then Syria, instead of being extradited to Canada. There, he was interrogated and tortured by Syrian intelligence. Maher Arar was eventually released a year later."
On 17 February 2003, Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr (aka "Abu Omar") was kidnapped by the CIA in Milan (Italy),[40] and deported to Egypt. His case has been qualified by Swiss senator Dick Marty to be a "perfect example of extraordinary rendition".[29]
"In October 2001, Mamdouh Habib, who lives in Australia and has both Australian and Egyptian nationality (having been born in Egypt), was detained in Pakistan"
Many many more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Example_cases [wikipedia.org]
Yes, "battlefield", that's it.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
There's really no risk to someone who is vacationing in the US of being arrested and held without warrant.
Quoting from twostix's example: "Maher Arar, a Syrian-born dual Syrian and Canadian citizen, was detained at Kennedy International Airport on 26 September 2002, by US Immigration and Naturalization Service officials. He was heading home to Canada after a family holiday in Tunisia. After almost two weeks, enduring hours of interrogation chained, he was sent, shackled and bound, in a private jet to Jordan and then Syria, instead of being extradited to Canada. There, he was interrogated and tortured by Syrian
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
From the US, going to Japan requires a pre-approved visa. Leaving Japan requires payment of a tax of some sort. It has been a while, but I don't think there is a payment required for the visa up front.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
I live in Japan, and have done for almost 10 years. I've entered on student, work, and tourist visas. You obviously need to pre-approve for the two former, but the latter is just a matter of getting off the plane.
There is no exit tax. You very well may be thinking of the former airport tax at Kansai International in Osaka. For whatever stupid reason, you had to pay that tax not with the cost of your ticket, but by buying a stupid little 2500-yen ticket that you handed to