Aussie Net Filtering Trial Delayed 83
hopejr writes "The Federal Opposition says it is not surprised the Government's mandatory internet filtering trial has been delayed. The trial, which was meant to begin today, has been postponed until mid-January 2009 and the internet service providers (ISPs) who will participate will be announced at the same time. ISPs iiNet and Optus both said yesterday they had not heard anything about their applications to participate in the trial, and doubted the Government would meet its own deadline."
Proud to be an American... (Score:1)
Where at least I know I can break the law.
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Re:Proud to be an American... (Score:4, Interesting)
Australia's constitution was not made by criminals. It was written by a wealthy land owning elite. The criminals were their parents cheap labour. Australia did not exist until federation in 1901. Transportation of convicts ended in 1857.
Prior to 1901 the states were self governing colonies. The colony of South Australia was settled by free settlers not convicts. People settled my state for religious freedom, to own land and for profit - not a convict in sight.
The reason the Australian constitution is not as noble as the US constitution is that Australia was not founded by revolutionaries. We remained part of the British empire and inherited the attitudes and structures of England. The US adopted a republic based on the French model which celebrated liberty and equality.
The filter is the result of a coalition between anti-liberal socialists and catholics. The ALP right faction is strongly influenced by catholicism and is socially conservative. The ALP left factions may have championed social change once, but it I suspect it was just a reaction to the conservatism of the times and they have no real commitment to individual freedom being socialists.
So the ALP are just as crazy as the GOP religious right but far more dangerous as there is not a libertarian amongst them to stand up for freedom.
The current government used to be a socially progressive, center left workers party but probably should change their name to the Christian Democrats as they are basically a front for Roman Catholicism these days.
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Transportation to the American colonies just ended earlier then it did in Australia and to a far lesser extent as immigration came from many countries. It was far too easy to just walk away from service and live in a colony that didn't care for the practice. Sure that temporarily gave rise to more African Slaves. With regards to the North American ones it only amounted to 10% of the total trade to the west. Many of the African Slaves did the same thing. With the rise of industry slavery was doomed, It just
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Transportation to the American colonies just ended earlier then it did in Australia and to a far lesser extent as immigration came from many countries.
I think you're missing some punctuation in their somewhere .... do you mean:
Transportation to the American colonies just ended earlier then it did in Australia -- and to a far lesser extent -- as immigration came from many countries.
IOW, if the 'and to a far lesser extent' is parenthetical rather than essential, then, yes, you're right.
Early America was settled by the British, but also by the French, Dutch, Spanish, Germans, etc. Most of the early settlers came here to find new opportunities -- make a good living, start a new life, etc.
Re:Proud to be an American... (Score:4, Interesting)
On a recent trip to Charleston, South Carolina, I encountered some interesting views on slavery. I was taking a tour of an old plantation house ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleton_Place [wikipedia.org] ) and they were talking about their rice production before and after the Civil War. Before the war, they were able to produce quite a bit of rice. After the war, with slavery outlawed, they tried doing it using a "communal work" type of setup, but it wasn't profitable. Basically, once they had to pay their laborers, they couldn't turn a profit. It was interesting (to say the least) to hear slavery talked about in purely economic terms, as if there was no human suffering or moral quandaries involved. It was certainly different than the discussion you would have with someone from New York (like me) about slavery.
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Basically, once they had to pay their laborers, they couldn't turn a profit.
Wasn't that due laregly to competition for labor from new sources?
If the Confederates had banned slavery without being invaded by the US, and maintained emigration controls, their economy might have reformed a lot more smoothly.
Slave labor is always inefficient. Slavery was less about reduced wages than bringing in labor that didn't previously exist. Plantations in Africa didn't need to buy slaves as they could hire the existing locals.
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Honestly, I only know what I was told about the subject from the tour guide during the half hour tour. She made it seem like the plantation thrived during slavery but couldn't turn a profit during the post-slavery "communal work" setup. It wasn't spoken outright, but heavily implied that having to pay their laborers wages was a strain on the plantation's resources. They were still quite proud that the Middletons were among the first to join the Confederate side also.
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We ... inherited the attitudes and structures of England.
Only in part. We have never had a true aristocracy, with dukes and earls and stuff. We left behind a lot of England's traditional baggage, just as America did in the 1700s. Consequently, we had a more flexible social structure without the full-on classes of British society, and with a more democratic political structure (we pioneered secret ballots, women's vote, etc).
Australia was never just a slice of England transplanted to the southern hemisphere. There was a degree of filtering going on, resulting in a
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For a start, England was Transporting to America before Australia was colonised - and even while they transported to New South Wales and Tasmania.
Secondly. The USA does not have "Liberty". What they have is an obsessive belief that they have "Liberty", and that everyone else in the world wants and needs their sort of "Liberty".
The USA was actually founded by freeloaders - they wanted the British government to provide protection to their settlers against the natives, even when they had crossed boundaries be
Re:Proud to be an American... (Score:5, Interesting)
After European settlement, Australia was primarily inhabited by honest, law abiding colonists who were not sent there by force and did not flee seeking to practice any sort of new religion or ideology, but simply to make a good life for themselves on the land. Australia did not become independent in a violent ideological war over taxes but was given independence because all involved thought it could be governed better from Melbourne than London. We invented the secret ballot, we were the first country to give women the vote in the state level and second in the federal level. Australia's all about freedom, not as an ideal but as a lifestyle, to be able to make a good, fair life without harassment.
The Australian constitution only defines the relationship between the states and the running of federal democracy. It has done this quite well but what it does not do is impose the will of those who have died a century ago on Australia today. Look at the US which you mentioned before (and which I'm sorry to bash), The US has the bill of rights but the thirteenth and fourteenth amendment is nowhere to be found. You can have free speech, firearms, freedom from billeting soldiers, protection from unreasonable searches etc. but until 3 amendments after it ends, you can own other people and until the next; black people aren't citizens. And bare in mind here, the nasty, oppressive British empire banned slavery ten years after American succession, the ideological US took four score and seven years to do the same. The original American view of citizenship was very close to the old "Civis Romanis Sum" school of thought: freedom should be absolute for the free, but those not entitled should be subject to the liberties of those who have them.
In Australia, you are granted generally the same rights as in the US but by common law and acts of parliament, not by constitutional amendments. Sure, it gives the government latitude to do stupid things like this Internet filter. But the government in this country has ALWAYS censored pornography, we just got a lucky break for twenty years with the Internet but it's the same laws creeping onto another medium, not really a new development. Nude pictures aren't considered part of free speech in this country, it pretty much has to be related to politics or religion to be protected. But within this definition, we do have free speech in this country. With or without this Internet filter, I can still say on the Internet or out on the street "Fuck Australia, fuck Keven Rudd and fuck our troops serving in Afghanistan" and nobody will block me, nobody will arrest me and nobody will show up in a truck and kick my arse for being un-patriotic.
I don't want this filter, I am embarrassed by this filter, I am writing to my local member about this filter and I will never vote for anyone who supports this filter. However, I still think there is a lot of silly hyperbole going around here about it.
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You know, I had a rather long-winded retort post written, but it's not worth the breath. I'll just say this: Whatever the silly hyperbole going on here about the Internet filter, there's an awful lot of silly hyperbole and cherry-picked "issues" in your post as well. If you want to do ANY comparison of nations, for any purpose, you need to do so in a much more thoughtful manner and with a much better and more complete und
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The parent said Australia was not founded upon freedom like the US was. Whether comparing the moral history of two countries proves anything in todays society is another question, but I felt that the question had been asked and someone should discuss it a bit better than it had been in this thread.
I'm not sure how many issues I brought up. As for the factuality of this "issue" I did bring up; is the Fourteenth amendment
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We invented the secret ballot
You may have been the first to use it for elections, however it was invented in the coffee houses of England where the patrons would vote on topical issues.
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I can still say on the Internet or out on the street "Fuck Australia, fuck Keven Rudd and fuck our troops serving in Afghanistan" and nobody will block me, nobody will arrest me and nobody will show up in a truck and kick my arse for being un-patriotic.
Unless you are at a sporting event against New Zealand. Supporting Australia against New Zealand IS your patriotic duty. Running down Australia in any other context is allowable, and even compulsory on occasion.
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*shrug* If you want to see who has the most criminals now, a quick check of wikipedia will tell you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprisonment#Incarceration_rates_by_country [wikipedia.org]
Highest incarceration rate in the world. 5% of the world's population, and 25% of the world's imprisoned population. Land of the free? LOL!! USA... USA... etc
Interestingly the Irish have the lowest incarcerations rates, presumably because they are too busy being drunk.
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Both Australia and the USA were founded by criminals. Literally.
Which is why I clearly cannot take the drink in front of ME.
Re:Proud to be an American... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually the US was founded by religious extremists which the british rightfully tried to get rid of.
The descendents of those extremists, still equally extreme, continue to gain power and dismantle any progress we make as a nation toward social equality
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Interesting. While the Puritans certainly could have been considered 'religious extremists' back in the time they settled here, they were, by far, not the majority.
Most of the Founding Fathers weren't Puritans -- most weren't even Christian. Like many educated, affluent people, these men were influenced by the Age of Enlightenment, thus, many of them were Deists and Freemasons. Their influence is found in our founding documents -- the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The stuff about all
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Actually the US was founded by religious extremists which the british rightfully tried to get rid of.
I thought the US was founded by lawyers, merchants and plantation owners.
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The civil war took care of those, I'm afraid...
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So what exactly are you to do to those who preach persecution of others.
In this case, you direct the same persecution toward them to marginalize them
this works like the military phalanx system, you send equal force in the opposite direction and nullify it.
Sometimes two wrongs do make a right, or is it really wrong to marginalize the intolerant?
Recursive hypocrisy? (Score:2)
> So what exactly are you to do to those who preach persecution of others. In this case, you direct the same persecution toward them to marginalize them
Since you're preaching persecution of others, it's okay if we do that to you, right? Or is this one of those things that's only bad when other people do it?
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> So what exactly are you to do to those who preach persecution of others. In this case, you direct the same persecution toward them to marginalize them
Since you're preaching persecution of others, it's okay if we do that to you, right? Or is this one of those things that's only bad when other people do it?
When a foreign army is invading YOUR town, "thou shalt not kill" goes out the window.
Religious extremists work diligently to persecute others. Persecution of them is the rightful response.
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Australia has (had?) the Magnificant Meal which was a fairly nasty cult designed for the personal power of the founder, who I think is now in jail for a very long list of fraud and theft offences. We also have the "Exclusive Bre
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Actually, I've never seen any kind of god-based religious extremist try anything of the sort.
I'm not referring to the communists, socialists, vegetarians though. They're always trying to push their beliefs on others.
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Actually, I've never seen any kind of god-based religious extremist try anything of the sort.
-Lifers
-evangelicals who destroyed the worldwide economy by putting a potted plant..a shrub if you will.. in charge of the world's largest consumer market.
-the mormon church (prop 8 anyone?)
that's just a small, short list off the top of my head, and my mind and body are severely addled by illness atm.
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OMG! !news (Score:1)
Surprising really. With all the effort gone to "think of the children" (read : We need your vote so will go along with a scheme that no-one thinks will work), it has been delayed?
On the first day of X-mas... (Score:2, Interesting)
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But will Holland accept us?
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Nope. England is getting nearly as bad. I'm thinking Antarctica. Time to build a new civilization based on 21st century evolved values, not 16th century ones.
canada.
Throttling, but not censorship. Liberal copyright laws, and a heavy weight copyright reform lobbyist with the ear of the newspapers and MSM.
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Good luck. If you tried that, I'm pretty sure most other countries would bomb you to nonexistence. Can't have the proles getting uppity and thinking they can form their own country where they aren't drained by the upper class.
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Remember, the trials are not going to be live [slashdot.org], so it shouldn't affect you as a normal customer. Hopefully those trials will be the last we hear of this.
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I just pitty that zombie with an offtopic mod.
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Not really in the same situation, but even the obsessive, ADHD-addled highschooler here just felt the real spirit of slashdot. This is better than Christmas. This is home, my^H^Hour home. Cheers!
BTW, do you like whiskey or vodka?
There are other ways of suppressing information... (Score:2, Interesting)
This just in from Guido's blog, premier political blog in the UK.
There is some rumour about a big political operator's son having his e-mail hacked. Minor story about a criminal act. And the lawyers have just slapped a writ on all the newspapers and bloggers forbidding them from mentioning this. Luckily, Guido is not so easily cowed....http://www.order-order.com/2008/12/up-yours-carter-ruck.html
Freedom demands that there should be a high traffic on this attempt to suppress news, so slashdot and spread all y
Re:There are other ways of suppressing information (Score:2)
Merry Christmas (Score:2)
Temporary reprieve, but (Score:4, Insightful)
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Don't you get it! NBN = FASTER. FILTER = SLOW. They balance each other out! We can maintain the status quo, and for only several billion dollars! It's a bargain!
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Why only Conroy? It's not like he's a rogue minister pushing this against his party's will.
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Good luck: Conroy is a senate-based minister - he'd be pretty close to the top of his party's state list, which means that you'd have to vote out everyone under him on the state's Labor senate list before you could get him. You'd be looking at a shift of something like 35-40% of the vote.
That's the downside to proportional representation - you can't remove individuals unless they're from a small party/independent.
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Still, no point having a good NBN if it's censored.
When will you learn? (Score:2)
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and the government generally doesn't shoot at you or lock you up unless you're misbehaving.
So, it's like in North Korea, then.
More like the US really but with funny accents.
Oh, wait, no! They DO shoot you and lock you up for nothing in the US.
So yeah, North Korea. So ronery and sadry arone.
Cool (Score:4, Interesting)
So Optarse are volunteering for the trial eh?
I couldn't ask for a better test case really. Those cretins are so goddamn incompetent that they have not a hope in hell of getting it working to an acceptable level.
Roll on the trial I say!
Oh great my internet is going to go down. (Score:1)
An in line filter. Well all I see is a massive slow down and halt. Witch is soon followed by a renewed increase in encrypted traffic.
This thing is going to have a dramatic impact on Aussie commerce.
This is such an ill founded idea and complete waste of tax payers funds. This is simply going to start an arms race that the government and the ISP have little chance of winning.
Note in Aus that most Internet plans have byte limit caps. Thus the ISP's have little interest in being in a commanding position of t
This will never work (Score:1)
I for one am glad I'm an American. (Score:1)
It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my computer is useless.
Without my computer, I am useless.
I must program my computer true. I must hack faster than the enemy who is trying to kill me.
I must hack him before he hacks me.
I will.
My computer and I know that what counts in war is not the lines we write, the spread of our worms or the chaos we make.
We know that it is the hits that count.
We will hit.
My com