Indian GPS Cartographers Charged As Terrorists

chrb writes "Following on from the discussion about Apple disabling GPS in Egyptian iPhones, we have a new case of the conflict between the traditional secrecy of government, and the widening availability of cheap, accurate GPS devices around the world. On 5th December, two software engineers employed by Biond Software in India were arrested for mapping highways using vehicle based GPS devices. Further evidence against the pair emerged when it was found that a laptop they had been using in the car contained some photos of the local airforce base. The company claims they had been commissioned by Nokia Navigator to create maps of local roads and terrain. Following an investigation by the Anti Terrorist Squad of Gujarat the cartographers have now been charged with violating the Official Secrets Act and will remain in custody."

Well

[Creepy Crawler]

At least it isnt Guantanamo..

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Well

[gnick]

You're kidding, right? I realize that Guantanamo isn't a resort, but I'd feel much safer there than in an Indian jail. Especially with the spot-light shining on it so brightly.

Of course, this pair has only gone 3 days being held without an official charge...

Judge Moron

[should_be_linear]

How about Google Maps having photos of same roads already for *years*. Made by flying holy cow.

RTFA

[Sta7ic]

The Times of India article claims that the two are being held and charged more for having film of an airport and an air force base, than they are for collecting GPS data. Using a DUI for an analogy, the poor lane control would be the GPS dish, and the film of the air facilities the half-empty beer bottle.

Come on, this is 2008 !

[Milvuss]

Governments have to understand cartography can no longer be restricted to military or other officials.

GPS, camera, satellites are ubiquitous, and we can see the result with things like Google Earth or wiki-like mapping. You can no longer make imprecise or secret maps. You can no longer forbid photos of any place you can see from a public location. You can no longer base your security on obscurity.

After all, the bad guys probably already have all this information. You have to assume they have it, or your doomed to failure. Just make officially all those things public, and find new ways to implement security for your important places, for people, for the country...

I am beginning to see a pattern.

[Anachragnome]

Step 1: Create and heavily market new technology to public as a profitable venture

Step 2: Make use of technology ILLEGAL

Step 3: Fill privately owned/operated prisons with resulting miscreants OR...

Optional Step 4: Use resulting abuse(illegality) as validation to extort money from general populace

This model fits with the whole Media/DRM crap and now seems to be used for purposes other then making money.

Re:Charged As Terrorists?

[cyphercell]

So, in order to keep the air force base data out of the GPS system wouldn't they need to know where it was?

Biond...James Biond?

[elrous0]

Why would cartographers be taking pictures of airforce bases, in addition to their more expected mapping out of GPS routes? Does sound just a tad suspicious. Can't blame India for wanting to ask them a few questions--the first question being "Are you a Pakistani spy or a terrorist?"

Re:Bankrupting justice

[elrous0]

You know, before you mock the Indian government here, it should be noted that there *ARE* Pakistani spies and terrorists in India. And this sort of thing is exactly the kind of behavior you would expect out of them (particularly with the recent Indian/Pakistani tensions, the recent terrorist attack, and the possibility of an Indian airstrike against Pakistan's intelligence office). It may be a rush to judgment to condemn them, but it may also be a rush to judgment to just assume that they're just innocent mapmakers who happen to have extensive pictures of Indian air force bases too.

Judge the Law

[bill_mcgonigle]

So if they did photograph the air force base then they basically broke the law and have been charged. What's the problem?

The law does almost nothing to prevent terrorism while throwing innocent people in jail for doing things a free person would normally do.

That's the problem.

We could have a really safe society by placing everybody under house arrest, unless they were being transported by the government to their work centers. Official delivery people could provide rations and perhaps emergency services personnel could use the roads as well. Then we just arrest anybody else traveling illegally and execute them for attempted terrorism.

I'll take some risk with my freedom, thanks.

Re:With a name like "The Official Secrets Act"

[techno-vampire]

That's the Official Secrets Act of 1923.

India didn't become an independent nation until after WW II. Checking Wikipedia, I find that this law was held over from the British colonial administration. Interesting.

Re:Official Secrets Act != Terrorism Charge

[chrb]

The engineers were initially arrested for GPS surveying - despite the fact that Google Maps appears to have quite a detailed map of Jamnagar [google.com] (including the airforce base).

The fact that the police actually found some incriminating photos afterwards doesn't mean that the original arrest was reasonable - using a GPS device isn't a crime, and shouldn't give the police license to search the rest of your equipment looking for further evidence.

As to whether photographing an air force base should be a crime in the first place - let me introduce a detailed aerial photo of Jamnagar Air Force Base! [wikimapia.org] Also try searching for Jamnagar AFB on Google images :-) You can't put the cat back in the bag, and this kind of inadvertent information leakage is exactly what I was talking about when I noted the conflict between the traditional secrecy of the military/government and cheap, accurate personal electronics.

GPS Connection Likely Peripheral To Arrests

[reallocate]

Photographing military installations is a crime in many countries, as is publishing maps of areas that include those installations.

Not to say that is right, but their employment by a GPS company was probably peripheral to the arrests.

not to go out on a limb

[sunking2]

But maybe they actually are terrorists? Or are terrorists not allowed to hold a job that may be to their benefit? Maybe, just maybe there is a chance they got this right?

Re:Judge the Law

[XchristX]

The law does almost nothing to prevent terrorism while throwing innocent people in jail for doing things a free person would normally do.

I don't know about that, but it does send a message to a totalitarian and genocidal enemy (Pakistan) that they will have a tougher time in carrying out their goals.

I'll take some risk with my freedom, thanks.

I'd rather lose some freedoms than die in a nuclear fireball, or live in perpetual misery in the Dhimmitude of an Islamic theocracy. Pakistan means to destroy our country or, failing that, occupy it and subject non-Muslims to the dehumanizing oppression of Dhimmitude (fighting Islamic Jihad is mentioned in their constitution, as well as the motto of their Army).

It's easy for you to pontificate, sitting in a country surrounded by well-wishing allies. Not so for us, being the only democracy surrounded by Islamic theocracies and totalitarian dictatorships who mean to wipe us out (and have already tried to do so once: http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/ [genocidebangladesh.org]).

Re:Official Secrets Act != Terrorism Charge

[macshit]

A few years ago I took a tourist photo of the Pentagon in D.C. from just outside the metro stop, which is pretty far away from the building. A security officer came and asked me to delete the photo from my camera.

Keep in mind that "a security offer asked" and "it is the law" are very, very, different things.

Sometimes they're simply full of shit and trying to intimidate you into doing something they have no legal power to enforce.

Re:Well

[Kjellander]

For the record [ijcm.org.in], hoods + shackles are a hell of a lot more preferable to tuberculosis, malnutrition, and unsafe water.

I would snap up a chance to do time at Gitmo vs. just about any jail/prison outside of the 1st world.

And I would snap up a chance to do time in any Western European prison instead of being tortured at Gitmo or anal raped in a mainland US prison. You guys aren't treating your prisoners right.

Re:Official Secrets Act != Terrorism Charge

[Registered Coward v2]

; there are signs specifying two things: It is a US Govermnent property site... Photogrophy is prohibited

Sure, if you go on the base property. But I think by "public" land the GP meant more along the lines of the public road that goes by the base. There may not be a gate preventing access to the base property, but it's no longer public land.

Doesn't matter if you are not on base property; you can still be prosecuted for photographing restricted installations.