Microsoft Knew About Xbox 360 Damaging Discs 583
Kelly writes "An unsealed document in a Washington lawsuit filed last week at Seattle, Microsoft was well aware that the Xbox 360 was prone to damaging game discs even before the console was introduced in November 2005. Microsoft had three solutions for solving the issue, but all three solutions were rejected due to technical concerns or on the basis of cost. Microsoft settled on a cost-free fourth solution: a warning was added to Xbox 360 manual, which essentially placed the blame on users instead of the hardware." The scratching-disks problem was mentioned a few years back, too. I wonder whether more people would prefer a slight discount on the price of a console to the ability to reorient it while a disk was playing inside.
Wii got it right (Score:5, Interesting)
Generally I'm not a fan of slot-loading CD drives, but I think Nintendo got it right in this case. The slot-loader is gentle on the disc, works in multiple orientations, and is easy for even kids to use without damaging the system. IMHO, the 360 would have done well to also design around a slot-loader, especially given their desire to place the system in a vertical configuration. The Wii is a very inexpensive system, so I don't see such a solution adding much cost.
(Then again, what do I know? Microsoft did try to cut corners wherever possible to create the system as cheap as possible.)
Of course, Sony managed to get a tray system working without scratching disks. And the system can be placed in a vertical configuration. (Does anyone actually do that?) I can only guess that Sony's solution was one of the "more expensive" ideas that Microsoft rejected.
Easy Fix (Score:2, Interesting)
Isn't this usually a concern (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh noes! (Score:1, Interesting)
How is this news? This has been a "problem" with all optical disc formats ever. Laptop drives, caddy-loading drives, and slot-loading drives are the only type where this cannot happen. I don't shake my Xbox when I use it, and I don't try to operate my Laserdisc player upside-down either.
inb4 Micro$oft is teh ebil empire!
Re:Wow, a complete business plan. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:2, Interesting)
Anyway, this is just a non-story, but as any MS story, it seems like it's our job to bash them at any price.
This is NOT Microsoft's fault (Score:1, Interesting)
There's lots of asshat things Microsoft has done, but this isn't one of them.
The motion says that Microsoft knew that when the Xbox 360 was reoriented with a disc playing inside, the disc could be damaged.
DUH! Don't do that! I wouldn't do that on my desktop PC, or my Playstation, or my laptop. And how often does that happen anyway? Why are people regularly rotating their XBoxes? I might do that, like, once when I set it up. And maybe when I transport it. Never while it is running!
A warning was also included in the product manual, telling customers to "remove discs before moving the console or tilting it between the horizontal and vertical positions."
This is a completely reasonable expectation. This is a case where a warning is appropriate.
Eventually, Microsoft did institute an Xbox 360 disc replacement program that sends out new discs to customers if their discs are damaged for any reason. The program only applies to Microsoft titles and costs $20 per disc.
Wow, AND they offered to replace discs. Obviously, they can only replace their own discs.
Holy crap -- Microsoft did everything absolutely right here and STILL got sued.
Re:Wow, a complete business plan. (Score:2, Interesting)
My Xbox damaged my copy of Halo 3, I just went back across the street to the Game Stop and got it replaced for on the coverage plan I got through the retailer. Not hard.
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:4, Interesting)
During a 5.0 in So. Cal, yeah, scratched game discs are usually a high priority. Right after fallen collectable plates and scared pets.
Why? Cause nothing is going to happen. A 5.0 will move stuff that's not nailed down, but safe odds that nothing load bearing is going to collapse.
So, frankly, this is MS dropping the ball. I'm not suggesting we're throwing around an xBox while playing it, but to expect a console to stay bolted down at all times is not a valid argument.
Re:Easy Fix (Score:5, Interesting)
There is an even easier fix... MS should just install foam pads. See here:
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEyyyZFZAuDOQEAioX.php [xbox-scene.com]
There is also do-it-yourself guides on xbox-scene, but it involves voiding the warranty by opening the box.
Suprised? (Score:5, Interesting)
Let me start off by saying I own a 360 and have scracted a disk doing exactly what you are warned not to do. If the copyright police weren't such bastards I probably would have had a playable backup so it wouldn't have been a big deal, but thanks to all the DRM it wasted one of my games. That was shortly before christmas, and that year no 360 games were purchased in my household due to the state of anger I was holding towards Microsoft.
The point to this post however is ...
In all the years of running Windows and dealing with the stupid little bugs that bring the system to its knees due to cutting corners in the development process, are we not stupid ourselves for being suprised by these facts now that they've come out? I'm upset with myself for thinking for even a second that the 360 would be any different than Windows. I guess the MS mice I have used made me think maybe their hardware was different. Obviously I was wrong.
Scratched a disc last night...shut the band down (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Easy Fix (Score:1, Interesting)
{didn't post first time}
I found the link to the do-it-yourself stuff...
http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/repair/Refurbishing-the-HL-Xbox-360-DVD-Drive.htm [llamma.com]
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:2, Interesting)
>>>So I should be able to just throw my xbox into a centrifuge
STRAWMAN ARGUMENT. If you bothered to read what I write, you would have seen this: "The flaw was not the user; the flaw was the engine overheating & the oil turning to sludge....... [Likewise Microsoft is] unfairly blaming users, but users have done nothing wrong. They have NOT moved their Xboxes, and yet discs are still getting scratched."
No you cannot throw your Xbox into a centrifuge.
Yes you should be able to set your Box on a stable table, and not pull scratched discs out of it.
Re:In reality, people move things (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:3, Interesting)
1) This occurs when simply moving the xbox, not flipping it.
I had two different disks get scratched from the movement caused by the vibrating fans. I didn't touch it at all. I now own a PS3 and have never had an issue.
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:2, Interesting)
Some people are incredibly allergic to peanuts. As a response to this, foods containing peanuts need to be labeled. Personally, I would rather the law say "Foods containing peanuts need to be labeled '...' " and that's it, rather than "Foods containing peanuts need to be labeled '...' with the exception of '...' which can be labeled as '...' if '...' is met, or '...' if '...' and '...' are met."
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:3, Interesting)
So what you're saying is a consumer class device should not be robust in any way, so it can't stand up to even the slightest jostling? Why not just make it out of ice?
Oh, your XBox melted? Why didn't you keep it in a walk in freezer with a constant temperature of -5 Celcius? It's not our fault if your compressor broke down either.
I'm not expecting a disc to stay in perfect condition if you're throwing around the thing, but slight shifts should not kill a disc. You can move PCs with CDs inside that are moving if you're careful. Walkmans or other portable CD players can do it. Why can't an Xbox handle even the slightest jolts?
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't move mine and my discs are scratched. Assassins Creed is unplayable, Others lock up more frequently on scratched discs. Basically the only time my 360 has moved is when it was sent in for service three separate times(meaning I'm on my 4th console). After all the documented problems with the 360 units, why are you still willing to give it the benefit of the doubt?
My ps3 discs are virtually flawless and it receives nearly as much use as the 360. Perhaps even more since I watch all my DVD's/videos on the ps3 due it upscaling better since I have an HDMI for it.
All that being said, I think 360's are better for gaming and the ps3 is better all around unit, but the recent 360 updates narrowed the gap.
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:4, Interesting)
>>>I don't move mine and my discs are scratched.
There you go. That's an engineering flaw not user mistake, and just as the U.S. CPA forced Toyota to replace engines (or get sued), they should force Microsoft to admit there's a problem and replace Xbox 360s with better drive units.
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:3, Interesting)
Every other instance of using an optical drive - PC, DVD player, etc. - picking it up and moving it doesn't destroy the disk. Most people have moved a PS2 while it was running or turned a computer to the side while it was running to plug something in. It's natural to assume the 360 would be the exact same way, but they managed to fuck up the engineering so spectacularly that it doesn't.