Microsoft Knew About Xbox 360 Damaging Discs 583
Kelly writes "An unsealed document in a Washington lawsuit filed last week at Seattle, Microsoft was well aware that the Xbox 360 was prone to damaging game discs even before the console was introduced in November 2005. Microsoft had three solutions for solving the issue, but all three solutions were rejected due to technical concerns or on the basis of cost. Microsoft settled on a cost-free fourth solution: a warning was added to Xbox 360 manual, which essentially placed the blame on users instead of the hardware." The scratching-disks problem was mentioned a few years back, too. I wonder whether more people would prefer a slight discount on the price of a console to the ability to reorient it while a disk was playing inside.
Microsoft lying??? I don't believe it (sarcasm) (Score:3, Informative)
Clearly it's not just users than move consoles, I have had 3 discs scratched by my 360, and it was never moved (it's kept vertical). There are many faults with the 360, and Microsoft do what they can to lie and/or distract consumers.. Lately the trend seems to be dissing whatever the competition is doing, rather than spending efforts on their own problems....
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:5, Informative)
My understanding of the issue is that many consoles have had scratched discs even if the system was treated in an acceptable manner. Apparently, the system is not as well suited to a vertical configuration as Microsoft would have you believe.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems#Scratched_discs [wikipedia.org]:
Re:Check Engine (Score:3, Informative)
I have a little light on my dashboard that is labeled "Check Engine". Ostensibly it is supposed to turn on when an excess of O2 is detected in the car's emissions. However, it also seems to turn on just about every 20K miles or so. It costs $400 to turn off.
Is this "feature" by design? Or is it a bug?
The check engine light will also come on if the gas cap is not completely tightened. You need to tighten it until it starts clicking. I found this out the hard way, and fortunately a mechanic told me about it the first time I had it checked out.
Damn annoying (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wii got it right (Score:5, Informative)
The discs only get scratched if you re-orient the console WHILE the disc is being USED. This is a stupid idea to do with ANY disc-based system.
Uh, no. The previous generation of Apple Macbooks had this issue with their slot-loading DVD/CD drives. And Apple did the right thing about that - they fixed it. Discs, most esp. game discs, are feckin' expensive, and there's no excuse for Microsoft's (lack of) response.
Re:Wii got it right (Score:5, Informative)
As I mentioned in another post [slashdot.org], this is incorrect. It would appear that the 360 does scratches discs in properly stabilized systems that are used in a vertical orientation. It seems likely that the system's own vibrations, plus issues with subwoofers and other vibrational sources contribute to the discs being unseated enough to cause scratching.
In effect, this is a serious design flaw. Microsoft should have either given up on vertical orientation altogether, or engineered the system to withstand the tolerances of vertically orienting an optical disc.
Re:Wii got it right (Score:2, Informative)
I have a Halo 2 disc that would completely disagree with you. That drive door left a nice circular grove in that disc rendering it unplayable. Orientation has always been vertical. That and the RROD adventure, twice, led me to the slot loading pannini maker PS3. Now if someone could just write a decent Media Center hack for it like the old XBOX...
I thought the lawsuit was about something else? (Score:4, Informative)
The thing is, the act of tilting your game console while it is playing is a bad idea regardless of manufacturer. I don't think that this unsealed document is the smoking gun people are looking for.
I thought that this disc-scratching lawsuit was about games getting scratched even through normal, everyday use. I remember my 360 put so many scratches in my copy of Crackdown that it rendered it unusable. And I never tilted (or accidentally bumped) the system while it was turned on. Occasionally I'd be playing a game and you'd hear a grinding sound.
Re:This is NOT Microsoft's fault (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wii got it right (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong. I can say from first-hand knowledge this is not true. I treated my 360 like a freaking museum piece - good ventilation, never moved or tilted the system while in-use, and always kept the discs in their cases and only touched the edges of the disc.
In spite of that, I still noticed radial scratches being etched in the disc. Every so often while playing the game, you'd hear a slight grinding sound occasionally followed by a disc-read error from the console. Convincing people that I wasn't somehow mishandling the system or the discs was a losing battle.
I think that this was a problem with 1st gen 360's and Microsoft has still not acknowledged the problem.
Unfortunately, this unsealed document is not the revelation people are claiming it to be. You are correct that most people know that you'll scratch a disc if you tilt the console during gameplay, and Microsoft's official line has always been that you shouldn't do it. This document only details the debate that Microsoft had internally about how proactive it should be in mitigating the problem.
Re:Check Engine (Score:1, Informative)
And you lose your geek points. It's OBD-II not OBDCII.
Re:Wii got it right (Score:3, Informative)
I just shook my head and muttered a question about Bill Gates' mother's sexual orientation, then bought a cheap used copy of the game at the local pawn...er...Gamestop.
Re:Check Engine (Score:2, Informative)
Your car is emitting O2? What make is it! We may have saved the planet!
Actually no.
His car is running lean and that's why there's too much O2 in exhaust, too much oxygen for amount of gasoline injected. So the engine isn't running as efficiently as it could and is probably producing too much NOx so it would fail the emissions test.
And if it's just a failed O2 (Lambda) sensor then it will be probably running rich, computer injects excessive amounts of fuel to the engine just because it thinks that we're running lean. And yet again, fail in emissions.
So no, planet isn't saved.
Real life experience (Score:5, Informative)
I borrowed a friend's xbox360 when they first came out and rented Project Gotham Racing. While playing the controller caused the console to move a bit (maybe 1/2 inch) and we heard a nasty noise and the game crashed. Upon removing the disc, we found it to be scratched beyond usefulness.
Since then I have dropped my ps2 from the case it sits in with no ill effects to the disk within. I have purchased a ps3 as well and have had no such problems with it. Needless to say, I did not purchase an xbox360 because of this, although i did have to buy the Project Gotham Game due to damage.
Combine this with the fact that EVERY one of my friends 360s die about once a year, how could MS be making money on this thing?
The first gen PS2 had the same problem (Score:3, Informative)
The first through fourth gen PS2 had the same problem. I would get radial scratches on the disc, one of which (GTA:VC) never even left the console until I was through playing it.
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:2, Informative)
Not all of the 360 packages came with wireless controllers. If I recall correctly, the original Core package came with a wired controller while the Premium package came with a wireless controller.
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:2, Informative)