Australian Government Ignoring Problems With Proposed Filters 292
halll7 writes with an update to the proposed Australian national firewall we discussed recently. According to the BBC, "The official watchdog, the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA), has been conducting laboratory tests of six filtering products, and the government plans a live trial soon. ... After its recent trials, ACMA reported significant improvements on earlier studies. The network degradation on one product was less than 2%, although two products were in excess of 75%." Now, Ars Technica reports that "an Australian newspaper has uncovered documents showing that the government minister responsible for the program has ignored performance and accuracy problems with the filters, then tried to suppress criticism of the plan by private citizens." The EFA has a great deal to say in opposition of these plans.
Re:What is going on? (Score:5, Insightful)
They're not actually ignoring the problems... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why... (Score:2, Insightful)
Network degradation the primary concern? (Score:5, Insightful)
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector. - Plato
Child Porn Out of Control (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead of censoring the whole internet (which must be for some other agenda using Child Porn as an excuse to push censoring) why not focus more resources on finding and arresting the people who create child porn.
I don't mean the people who view it. Because honestly I have had child porn come up on the internet while searching for other things. I immediately close the site, but if you look at the logs I accessed the site. Also in some newsgroups there are tons of child porn pictures. If you say download all messages, even though you open a child porn and are like no and close it right away, it still says you downloaded it. Or even browsing, sometimes a message will have one title but in the end it shows someone young that maybe is 18 but maybe is not you just don't know. So anyway I close that message but I still accessed it. Should I be arrested? Probably not because I am not interested in child porn at all and I certainly don't want to go out and do anything with a child (as far as the difference between 17 and 364 days and 18 that is tougher call if you were looking at women in a bar, but if I knew they were 17 and 364 days I would wait the one day not to worry about some FBI raid
What would be better would be if there is a way for me to report these things to the government authorities easily. In the end I'm sure a lot of people come across Child Porn searching for completely unrelated things, or even searching for adult porn. It seems a waste to not have a way to report these things for investigation. The problem with that is if they just look at every ip in the logs that accessed the site and go arrest everyone, they will arrest a lot of people who came to the website by mistake or who downloaded a newsgroup message by mistake. But if there was a way to report it and they closed down the makers that would be great. At some point there would be so little child porn that people would stop coming across it by accident (mostly). Because the makers of it would take steps to make it harder to find. And the good thing is that people actively looking for it would have a harder time as well....
Also from the way this guy seems so child porn phobic you would thing he was looking at child porn and because he feels guilty he decided he should help filter the internet so he doesn't have the temptation anymore. Usually the most vocal opponents against something actually do it. I remember quite a few Republicans who were very anti Clinton for his affair who ended up having affairs of their own.....And I don't even need to mention the various ministers in the church. Maybe someone needs to investigate this government minster. He sounds awfully anti-child porn, as if he is overly familiar with the problem.
The rapid spread of another dangerous ideology ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What is going on? (Score:2, Insightful)
He shouldn't be marked "troll" or "flamebait". He's voiced EXACTLY what I was thinking. I just read an article about how the U.S.-FCC wants to gradually phasing-out free television and replacing it with subscription-only whitespace devices. Meanwhile Australia is trying to dumb-down the internet (via filtering) so it's harmless fluff even a 5-year-old could read.
Government is supposed to be "of, by, and for the People" and instead they seem to be working for Google, Microsoft, et cetera.
Of, by, and for the Corporations.
Re:They're not actually ignoring the problems... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bloody hell. This guy makes Richard Alston look competent.
Re:Child Porn Out of Control (Score:3, Insightful)
Child porn is not illegal, unless it involves actual children. If child porn involved adults who look like children, or computer-generated images (ala the vixens in DOA Volleyball), then child porn is perfectly legal in the USA.
I don't know how it is in Australia, but it should be the same. The crime is the victimization of children, NOT the faked photograph.
Re:Child Porn Out of Control (Score:3, Insightful)
Child porn may just be the cover story. It's possible that some of these people are really looking to stop child porn. It's also possible that they are being paid to consult with a vendor who has a solution in search of a problem. It's also possible that they hate all porn and want to use child porn to get a foot in the door.
Re:Child Porn Out of Control (Score:5, Insightful)
>>>I'm sure a lot of people come across Child Porn searching for completely unrelated things, or even searching for adult porn. It seems a waste to not have a way to report these things
>>>
They do? I've never seen any child pornography. Never. I've seen lots of Nudist websites displaying Mom, dad, and child naked at the beach, but that is NOT porn. The human body was created by God, and what Gods creates is not sinful. A naked human is not porn.
If you want to see child porn (read: sex), you have to go into dark corners of the internet. It is well hidden. You can't just stumble upon it "by accident".
Re:What is going on? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, analog television is already being phased out and replaced with equally free digital television. They're squabbling over what to do with the leftover frequency space.
Re:The rapid spread of another dangerous ideology (Score:3, Insightful)
That's because we've never been at peace, we've always been in THE WAR ON TERROR!!!!!111111oneoneoneone!
If anyone thinks this is about child porn... (Score:5, Insightful)
If anyone thinks this is about child porn, they are simply fooling themselves. This is about control. The governments of the world want the serfs to know who their masters are and what their place in society is. The easiest way to do that---as China has found out---is to limit the information coming into the country to that which is approved by the government.
This is nothing new: Australia is simply following an ages-old script. The difference between then and now is that you think you have control because you live in a democracy. Let me assure you that democracy and liberty are two entirely different things, and often are at odds. Please see Hoppe's Democracy: The God that Failed [amazon.com] and Hayek's The Road to Serfdom [amazon.com] for more detail.
The best reaction you can have to this is to encourage yourself and others (especially your own children) to differentiate respect for others' rights from respect for artificial "law", and to show the latter none while deferring to it only enough to keep from attracting too much attention. Defy all rules that have nothing to do with protecting the rights of others, and you are a free man; obey them, and you are a slave.
Because it's a sham (Score:4, Insightful)
They ignore anything that may set them back because those within these western governments pushing this garbage really don't give a fuck about child porn, protecting the people, or anything. It is all politics; window dressing for censorship and control, a conduit to get an agenda they've wanted for a very long time rammmed through whatever sort of consitutional or other protetctions (including mass opinion) the people supposedly have against these sorts of abuses.
Another interestingly disgusting point when to comes to child porn (and other sexual behaviors that are not criminal but just as denounced by these guys) is that there have been many occasions where politicians, community leaders, priests, leaders of socially conservative movements, etc who are vocal and fervent denoucers and crusaders against such things are caught with this material or, worse, even involved in producing and distributing it.. the nebraska Franklin scandal that the Reagan/Bush whitehouse was caught up in comes to mind....
As a political issue child porn is like terrorism - it's an awful thing, but is also one of those political trump cards - and these slick bastards know it and use it as such.
Whats the solution ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Serious question. What IS the solution ??
I'm torn on this. The filtering plan is bullshit obviously and I'm also sure that someone
will post the funny "Please god.. won't someone think of the children!?" but heres the rub...
They're my children. MY kids. Not someone theoretical child somewhere that needs saving.
And after 15 years on the net, I know exactly how bad and sadistic some of the content is
out there.
My kids are of the age where they're becoming independent. I've educated them. I've
implemented my own rules of engagement when it comes to my kids accessing the internet at home.
But I can't guide them 100% of the time. They know whats ok, and whats not, but
they're still kids.
I'm lucky in that I was in Uni when the Internet went mainstream in early 90s. I could make
decisions for myself, but for kids these days, the Internet has always been ON.
Its time we stopped bagging the HOW and started thinking about the WHY.
WHY is the (insert your government here) trying to censor the internet ?
The main reason is simple - people are worried about their kids and the ease
with which they can end up in touch with seriously maladjusted, sick and sadistic
motherf**ers online.
Most parents learn that while the world can be wonderful - it can also be a nasty,
mind numbingly horrendous place at times. The internet is representation of that.
All things wonderful, all things horrible, all at the same time. You can't critisize
parents for wanting to come between their kids and the nastier elements.
This is Slashdot - one of the biggest collection of people with the talent and ideas
to find a solution to this problem in the world. SO WHAT IS IT ???
2 internets ? registered and unregistered ? make it an over 18 network ?
How do we use a technical solution to enforce a line in the sand that noone can agree
on anyway ? If the geeks can't find a solution to this dilemma, then ultimately the
politicians will - and we won't like the bonus pack I'm sure.
So, to pose the question: Dont put your head in the sand. The predators are there.
They're real. They exist. Given this, how do we protect OUR kids online ?
Re:Child Porn Out of Control (Score:3, Insightful)
1. He's gonna pay a vendor a fortune to implement the filtering. And that is the motivation.
2. Child porn is phase 1, music and movies are phase 2...you can see where that is going....warez and microsoft windows phase 3......
Here is why (Score:3, Insightful)
It's called 'social democracy'.
People are taught/led to either explode or collapse with emotion at the sight or thought of suffering. Instil regret, a bad conscience and the 'humane reflex' from the age of three onwards.
Therefore, they relatively speaking become blind to all other things. Who cares about clause 4.7.4a of the tax laws? If it could help a single child, then burn every tax law!
The individual therefore only has relevance to society if the individual either 1) suffers or 2) is oblivious to suffering. People who neither suffer nor are oblivious to it are not interesting. The only relevant unit of measurement is the group, which is relevant for the purpose of detecting the number of sufferes or the number of oblivious-to-sufferers in it so that either can be "corrected".
Here a human element kicks in, namely that it is far more appropriate to introduce a new protective law than remove an old one. Introducing a law helps protect sufferers or correct oblivious-to-sufferers, it will get you political momentum, and the theme of the discussion will be "how much good can I do?". The doers of good are saints, and everyone wants to be a saint. It is easy to identify at least a number of cases, at least up to several dozen in a 40-million-people country, where the law would have helped. And a SINGLE SUFFERER is as we know too much.
Removing a law is much tougher - because you are dealing with unknowns rather than knowns. You can't know for sure how many will START TO suffer as a result of removing a law. If a filter is in place to protect against accessing child porn, you can't know how much you contribute to child porn by removing it. Therefore, the quest to protect against suffering will virtually always result in the implementation of new laws and regulations, rather than removing old ones. Removing a law will never make you a saint.
This may seem like a joke, but is actually true, and the mechanism of suffering works this way. As 'the group' which is shepherded should not have access to child porn, that means YOU YOURSELF should not have access to child porn.
Re:What is going on? (Score:1, Insightful)
I don't know what the problem is. Maybe bin Ladin won and has successfully destroyed the Western culture he hates so much.
I've always rolled my eyes at those people who claim they're tired of the government and it's time to pack up and move. The theory was supposed to be that if we don't like our government, the constitution provides a way to overthrow it peacefully every election year. Either that has stopped working or these countries have become populated with Hitler's descendants (sorry Godwin).
Now I find myself reading over the immigration laws of certain Scandinavian countries and wondering how hard it is to learn Swedish.
Re:Whats the solution ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Is this the same Internet I know? (Score:4, Insightful)
So what if it excites a pedophile? Was the child harmed by the photograph taking? Does he or she even knows that someone wanked to that picture?
As long as no one is harmed by the taking of the picture, no censorship should be done, doing otherwise is punishing thoughtcrimes.
Re:What is going on? (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason why governments expand in power and revenue throughout their lifetimes is simple, although not many people can bring themselves to accept it:
Government attracts the kind of person who wants to control others through force -- tell them how to behave, how to spend their money, what to value and what not to value -- not the kind of person who just wants to mind their own business and live in peace.
It is only natural for the people in this business -- the business of controlling others through force -- to gradually expand their power and revenue over time, making it more lucrative for those in the business. Put it this way: if government was limited to simply protecting against coercion, rather than in the business of employing coercion, then what's in that for the people who make their fortunes in the business of controlling others?
To be sure, this isn't about "anglo-saxon" governments at all. No government in history, democracy or otherwise, has ever significantly, permanently, and willingly reduced its power or revenue. Sit down and reflect on that for a minute.
Re:What is going on? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well there is at least ONE positive thing to come out of Australia: Abby Winters dot-com ----- Of course if the Aussies "turn on" their filter Miss Winters will probably no longer be available. :-(
Re:Child Porn Out of Control (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What is going on? (Score:3, Insightful)
(1) >>>My answer to all of these things is: no.
Then don't watch it. That's your right, but you do NOT have a right to take-away from those of us who happen to enjoy shows like Heroes, CSI, Lost, Twenty-Four, or Supernatural. You are just one, whereas there are ~90% of americans who enjoy television and don't want to lose it. That's not just a majority; or a mere supermajority. It's a constitutional majority (over three-fourths).
(2) >>>Most of those 30 million people are watching the SD version.
You're probably correct about that, but come February 18 *everybody* will be watching HDTV. It might be downgraded to fit their old analog sets, but the source signal will still be HD with a bandwidth of approximately 15 Mbit/s. HDTV is here. It's too late to turn-back the clock.
>>>Please come up with some better arguments than this crap
Okay. When WSDs happen and I can't watch my favorite WPHL-17 or WBAL-11 because your whitespace-enabled Ipod is interfering with these channels, I'm going to take a hammer and smash it to pieces. That's a VERY effective argument. Television was there first; we viewers have the "first claim" to that space... a claim that goes all the way back to the 1930s. It's a shame that internet users arrived ~80 years too late, but that's just too fucking bad. It doesn't give you the right to take OUR airwaves away from us.
Next I suppose you'll want to take my house and build a new "internet cafe" building using eminent domain. Well, they tried that in York PA... tried to take a family farm via eminent domain "for the benefit of the public". Fortunately the PA supreme court declared it to be "theft" and returned the farm to the family, along with a fine levied on the York government for abuse of power.
You can NOT steal other people's claims, just because you BELIEVE you have a better use for the land (or the spectrum).
Re:What is going on? (Score:1, Insightful)
That may be a part of the issue. However I think it's just a question of immaturity.
Australia is still a very young country, it has never had to deal with oppression or tyranny in any way, and we are unable to even identify it let alone stop it.
I think a few years of purgings and an inquisition or two will set us on the right track, harsh as that may seem.
Re:So the govt. is actually AGAINST net filtering? (Score:3, Insightful)
Nope, it's simple.
The government doesn't care about illegal material in the slightest. They just want more power over what people can see and experience. This gives them more power, and they're using "illegal filtering" as the way to get it past people who might otherwise be critical.
They're certainly not against filtering illegal stuff - they simply don't care about it.
Re:What is going on? (Score:2, Insightful)
Hopefully someone that does it for the good of the people, not their own wallet.
Who knows, perhaps putting them on average wage will make them work harder to improve that...
Re:Whats the solution ? (Score:2, Insightful)
If you raise your children with good morals, principles, and instill some pretty basic common sense, then there is no need to censor the internet, because the kids will have the smarts to avoid any dodgy material anyway. Sure they might check everything out once or twice out of curiousity, but that is a part of the process. Once they've satisfied that curiousity, then the appeal is gone and they'll just avoid it completely because they want to.
On the other hand, if you create a barrier, and tell the kids they're not allowed to access this content, what do you think is the first thing they are going to try and do?
The solution is not a technical one. Let them learn to think for themselves. That is how they truly become independant. If you try to prescribe a set of rules to control their actions, then they'll never truly grow up, because they'll always depend on someone else to think for them.
Having these types of first hand learn-the-hard-way experiences is actually a part of the joy of growing up, and if you think back, I'm sure you'll agree that some of your most significant memories in life were those where you had to learn the hard way. And you also might find that you wouldn't have these experiences exchanged for anything, as these have made you who you are today.
There's an old saying that the best way to learn something is the hard way. Who are we to take that away from anyone?
Re:What is going on? (Score:3, Insightful)
Also the belief that more voting can change an enormously corrupt system that relies on voting for its legitimacy.