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Canadian NDP Leader Praises P2P Communities 169

Posted by Soulskill
from the need-something-to-do-between-hockey-games dept.
newtley writes "The New Democrats' Jack Layton has become the first leader of a major Canadian political party to acknowledge the importance of the Internet during a federal election. He's using YouTube to carry his message specifically to the online community, launching it on P2Pnet. 'We don't want to see hidden fees and gouging and service slow-downs all in the interests of promoting the objectives of certain large corporations,' Layton says." Other party members have also spoken out against increased internet regulation. We've been following the Canadian net neutrality debate for quite some time.
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Canadian NDP Leader Praises P2P Communities

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  • Wrong Tag (Score:4, Funny)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Sunday October 12, 2008 @10:49AM (#25345417) Homepage Journal

    Need to include ' its a trap'..

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by canuck57 (662392)

      It is a trap and not a joke. The NDP have never left less government debt in their terms of office. Provinces like Saskatchewan have 11 billion dollars in debt. While that many not sound like much, they have less than 1 million people to support it. They love credit spending like no other.

      Most experienced Canadians know NDP as socialists. Nationalization is a key plug of theirs.

      Laytoon would say anything to get elected be he mean it or not. World readers need to know it is routine that Canadian cand

      • by pipatron (966506)

        That's about $10000 per person, much less than the U.S.

        Traditionally, democrats/left-ish governments spend less while taking in more, thus reducing the debts, while right-wing capitalist governments tend to spend more. (what they don't spend on health care they spend on prisons and "national security")

        • Re:Wrong Tag (Score:5, Informative)

          by Erioll (229536) on Sunday October 12, 2008 @11:50AM (#25345711)

          Except of course for the Alberta Progressive Conservative party, which reduced taxes, eliminated the deficit AND the provincial debt (it is now completely gone).

          What the USA calls "right-wing" may not act like it at all, but in Canada generally fiscal conservatism means such, because we have an actual example of such that happened, not just theory like down south.

          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by PIBM (588930)

            They might have gotten rid of the monetary debt, but by how much did they damage their environment ? What would have happened to the debt if they would not have had Harper get rid of kyoto ?

            Exploiting their petroleum sand like this, with almost no regulations, got them tons of money. Any other responsible governement should not have allowed that to go through.

          • Re:Wrong Tag (Score:4, Informative)

            by IgnoramusMaximus (692000) on Sunday October 12, 2008 @12:26PM (#25345877)

            Oh yea, the Alberta Conservatives were, in their great, millions of years spanning foresight, entirely responsible for putting all that oil in all that sand in Alberta and then for driving global oil prices through the roof only so that they can rake in billions in royalties ... no?

            But then again this is, and has always been, on par for the so-called "Conservatives" world-wide: take with great fanfare all credit for things you had absolutely nothing to do with, while at the same time trying to project blame for everything you've fucked up onto others.

            • by gmack (197796)

              Try BC then. The BC Liberal party (made up entirely of former social credit conservatives) inherited a province from the NDP that was doing poorly economically yet managed to both put the economy back on track and balance the budget.

          • by Sibko (1036168)

            Except of course for the Alberta Progressive Conservative party, which reduced taxes, eliminated the deficit AND the provincial debt (it is now completely gone).

            I know a few people who live in Alberta, from what they tell me, this wasn't some Conservative 'just as planned...' scheme. [How could the have predicted the jump in oil prices?] This was pure blind luck. Alberta was spending too much money a while back, and needed some major cutbacks to be made so that the province wasn't digging itself into a hole. As the years went on after these cutbacks, the increasing price in oil kick started the Albertan economy into high-gear.

          • Re:Wrong Tag (Score:4, Informative)

            by canuck57 (662392) on Sunday October 12, 2008 @09:47PM (#25349937)

            Except of course for the Alberta Progressive Conservative party, which reduced taxes, eliminated the deficit AND the provincial debt (it is now completely gone).

            All Alberta did was elect two successive by the people representatives as our leaders. Yes, I live in Alberta. Neither Klein nor successor Stelmach are professional politicians, both came from the working class from their successful stints in real careers. That is, they are not in-the-pocket of vested interests behind the scenes. When Klein got in, he spent the first 6 months on a hack and burn of government waste and excess. Civil service people still scream at this government overhaul event as the provincial debt was increasing.

            Alberta voters tend to be smarter and avoided the liberal left promise of stars, spending and statist government at our, taxpayers expense. People here know when a candidate promises something they intuitively think, how is it going to be paid for?

            While some say it is oil, they are over stating the facts. Klein did this before oil was lucrative and only $20/barrel and the industry was barely hanging on. And in lucrative times, the government piggy banked the increased revenue money which reduces taxes in a sound sustainable way.

            It does not take long to turn around a out of control government, just a decent, honest, practical politician with lots of power that isn't doing the job for self ego. Even on Klein's last days, he would sit down with normal people and say hello.

            What the USA calls "right-wing" may not act like it at all, but in Canada generally fiscal conservatism means such, because we have an actual example of such that happened, not just theory like down south.

            We will see in the next few weeks. Canada's currency took a wild dip as the government is ailing out the banks too. Fiat currency management is on both sides of the border, they are not overlooking the Bank of Canada's propensity to create fiat money.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          $11 Billion divided among 1 Million people is more like $11,000 per person.

          The example he is using is for the debt created in one province by a provincial political party. The equivalent of the debt of a state in the U.S. - is it really common in the U.S. to see state debt at $11,000/person?

          The left of center governments in Canada typically create huge debt while the right of center governments create smaller debt. The previous left of center federal government (known as the "Liberals") ran up a huge d

          • Growing up, my examples of "right wing" financial dealing involved Brian Mulroney as Prime Minister and Grant Devine as Premier of Saskatchewan.

            Both of them left their respective governments deep in debt. It was the Liberals who came in and stopped the debt from ballooning out of control in Canada. And it is the current minority Conservative government that has started running deficits again.

            Provincially, Devine left Saskatchewan in a ridiculous pile of debt. The "left wing" NDP party came in and straigh

            • Growing up, my examples of "right wing" financial dealing involved Brian Mulroney as Prime Minister and Grant Devine as Premier of Saskatchewan. Both of them left their respective governments deep in debt. It was the Liberals who came in and stopped the debt from ballooning out of control in Canada.

              You should have looked to provinces further West where the story was the opposite - left wing governments running up huge debt and right wing governments getting it under control. For example BC where the gros

      • look pal, youre the only continent that is stuck with that mccarthian scarecrowing shit about left.

        entire europe is on social democracy, and it already got past north america in terms of economy and life standard, - hell, in every aspect of life.

        get this shit into your head -> in life EVERYthing needs BALANCE. without balance, everything flops. economy is not exempt from this basic rule.

        'socialism boooooooooo' 'nationalization booooooooo' 'government intervention booooooooooo'

        please, its 2008
        • by canuck57 (662392)

          look pal, youre the only continent that is stuck with that mccarthian scarecrowing shit about left.

          Ah, managed to get a NDiaPer to wake up.

          entire europe is on social democracy, and it already got past north america in terms of economy and life standard, - hell, in every aspect of life.

          Then you should move there. When I lived/worked in Europe the pay for the locals, well, wasn't good. And taxes, whew....great cultural place to visit but no want to live there unless I was filthy rich.

          get this shit into your head -> in life EVERYthing needs BALANCE. without balance, everything flops. economy is not exempt from this basic rule.

          Yes, everything needs a balance. It is also why the NDP are out of balance. They have great talk, lovely ideas, promise the moon. And it works great until the credit card comes past due. The balance for an NDP is credit runs out.

          'socialism boooooooooo' 'nationalization booooooooo' 'government intervention booooooooooo'

          I agree, all are bad in the above.

      • The NDP have never left less government debt in their terms of office.

        Of course, Gary Doer [wikipedia.org] in Manitoba has had a balanced budget every year for the last decade, as well as creating a rainy-day fund of hundreds of millions, but don't let that stop you from making black and white statements.

        Laytoon[sic] would say anything to get elected [whether] he mean[t] it or not. World readers need to know it is routine that Canadian candidates lie often.

        AFAICT, that's par for the course in Canada, the US, and the UK, and I suspect pretty much every other democracy. The Liberals did fairly well during the election a few years ago in part due to Sheila Copps promising to do away with the GST, and we all know how well that turned out. The Co

  • Brain? (Score:2, Funny)

    by WillKemp (1338605)

    Strewth! A politician with a brain? Somebody vote for him, please!

    • by x1n933k (966581)
      Unfortunately nobody will.

      I have to admit I am no political guru but when you look at a party who actually has plans, advocates them well, has a leader who communicates fluently and can debate smartly I wonder why these guys haven't had better numbers. I suppose it is because Jack Layton doesn't attack the other parties in the media like the other leaders so the majority of voters seems to overlook them. He is simply not in the press shouting about a past scandal or taxes.

      Honestly out of the three 'maj

      • OMG - get your tv fixed! It's filtering out all those NDP ads attacking other parties! It must have also filtered out the televised debates where the NDP leader was attacking the Conservative leader!

        The funny thing is that watching the debates the only leader who looked like a real competitor to Mr. Harper was Mr. Duceppe, who was passionate and obviously intelligent. It's too bad his party is based on breaking up Canada into two independent countries.

      • by ceoyoyo (59147)

        I don't know... remembering past elections, the NDP seems to actually be taking this one seriously. I don't actually remember a federal election in which the NDP sounded so good since Ed Broadbent.

        It's particularly impressive when you consider that the Conservatives are basically running on a platform of "hey, we're evil, but the Liberals are incompetent, so who ya gonna vote for?"

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by bryxal (933863)
      Actually... As much as I agree with his tech views. Most of his plans are completely idealistic and borderline delusional. The leader is also a scummy politician. After a while you will see that he is an opportunist that only cares about what the media will give out and not the actual issues and doesn't take the time to try to explain a in depth analysis and how to actually solve it. Instead he spews populist jib jab on most topics. The only reason he is getting this right is because of Charlie Angus one of
      • by schon (31600)

        Most of his plans are completely idealistic and borderline delusional.

        I don't know about that - although I haven't read anything in-depth, the cursory readings seem OK. Can you provide some examples?

        The leader is also a scummy politician.

        On this, I wholeheartedly agree with you. While well-spoken, he's a sociopath who refuses to accept responsibility for his own actions, and tries to take credit for the work of others (besides being prone to hyperbole.)

        Examples: The last election was triggered when the NDP (led by Layton) voted non-confidence against a Liberal finance bill. The election happened over the holid

        • by abigor (540274)

          We don't have a great choice of leaders at all in this election:

          Harper: uncharismatic, suspiciously socially conservative

          Elizabeth May: an American(!) and devout Christian

          Dion: seems weak, plus the Liberals are corrupt and need a time-out

          Layton: commented that Punjabi should be made Canada's third official language - enough said

          • by Rary (566291)

            Dion: seems weak, plus the Liberals are corrupt and need a time-out

            This is the problem I have with Canadians. The Chretien Liberals were definitely corrupt, and definitely needed a time-out. So what did we, the Canadian people, do to punish them for their corruption? We inflicted Stephen Harper on ourselves -- not to mention such gems as Stockwell Day, Jason Kenney, and Maxime Bernier (at least he's out of the picture now).

            Today's Liberal party is mostly devoid of the people who were involved in the Sponsorship scandal. Sure, Dion seems a little weak, but have you seen Ste

        • On this, I wholeheartedly agree with you. While well-spoken, he's a sociopath who refuses to accept responsibility for his own actions, and tries to take credit for the work of others (besides being prone to hyperbole.)

          Sociopath? Maybe... he does kind of make my skin crawl when I watch him speak... there's definitely something off about about him.

        • by Brickwall (985910)
          Oh, please. Don't you see Layton's TV ads where he claims he will hire 1,000 doctors? Forget that health care is a provincial matter; just remember it takes 7 years to train a doctor, so building new spaces at universities (Layton's "plan") won't have any effect until 2015. The Tories have a much more practical plan. They will make it easier for foreign professionals to have their credentials recognized. That will increase the number of new doctors almost immediately, and it doesn't cost as much.

          Layton i

          • by schon (31600)

            Oh, please

            Please what? Sorry, I'm not sure what you're saying here. You seem to think I disagree with you somehow.

            Don't you see Layton's TV ads where he claims he will hire 1,000 doctors?

            No, all I've seen are his attack ads against Harper. But yes, that does seem pretty far-fetched.

            The Tories have a much more practical plan. They will make it easier for foreign professionals to have their credentials recognized.

            What does the Tory plan have to do with NDP? (Besides the fact that they've been in power for two years, and haven't actually implemented anything.)

            Layton is not a good person

            Yeah, that's why I used the term sociopath to describe him.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by Kinetix303 (471831)

            Again with the co-op smear. The way a housing co-op works is high income residents pay much higher rent so that low income residents don't have to pay as much. That way, it doesn't have to be subsidized by government at all. Either you don't understand how a housing co-op works or don't care. This smear was discredited more than a decade ago. When raised now it just illustrates the ignorance of the person who is repeating it.

      • by urbanriot (924981)
        I agree that he's a 'scummy politician.' He's considerably pandering to what Joe Every-man wants, without considering or acknowledging the economic side effects or tax requirements. He might come off as honest to some, but I see a man taking advantage of every situation, and saying what people want to hear.
  • New Democrats? (Score:3, Informative)

    by DirtySouthAfrican (984664) on Sunday October 12, 2008 @10:52AM (#25345423) Homepage
    New Democratic Party, isn't it? We're not American, or did I not get the memo?
    • by creepynut (933825) *

      Haven't you ever seen a TV ad with Jack Layton?
      He generally finishes up his little talks with "Vote for Change, Vote for the New Democrats"

  • Jack Layton (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nightfire-unique (253895) on Sunday October 12, 2008 @11:00AM (#25345461)

    I've been a Liberal party supporter my entire life. It ended the day the walked out on the omnibus crime bill vote to prevent the government from falling.

    I always like Jack Layton but I didn't spend much time reviewing his party, their voting record, or his speeches. After I decided to avoid the Liberals last year (or earlier this year.. can't remember) I started doing some real research. And I have to say, he is the first politician (at that level) I've actually admired. He speaks with a level of candor and immense credibility that is so rare.

    He seems to genuinely care about his fellow man, and want to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.

    In short, he's precisely the opposite of this neocon wannabe we currently have running the country. Jack, if you happen to be reading this (and it wouldn't surprise me) you've got my vote. :)

    • I too am a long-time liberal (but just because we have a liberal MP and MPPs) and love Jack Layton.

      I don't like the NDP (sorry, too socialist for me) but he is an honest, hard-working man. I never liked him before because during the debates in the last elections he was constantly going on "Oh vote NDP we're different we're better!" etc. While watching the french debates (I was planning on watching Joe Biden beat up Palin) though he changed for the better; although he's no Duceppe in terms of slamming everyo

    • by mpetch (692893)

      He seems to genuinely care about his fellow man, and want to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.

      I guess "fellow man" is anyone in Canada who lives outside of Alberta.

      • Re: (Score:1, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Alberta is the new Toronto. Deal with it.
    • Yes you have to admire a man who lives in govenment supported low income housing while he and his wife have a combined income of over $100,000 dollars a year.
      • Re:Jack Layton (Score:4, Informative)

        by Kinetix303 (471831) on Sunday October 12, 2008 @12:37PM (#25345951) Homepage

        Bollocks. He lived in a mixed income co-operative housing unit that uses the higher rent charged to high-income earners to subsidize the costs of the lower-income units. It was not government subsidized housing. In fact, the housing unit would have failed financially if there were no higher income earners living there. You clearly have no understanding of how mixed incoming cooperative housing actually works, or you're just trying to toss an already much-discredited 15 year old smear with no basis in reality.

        • Is that not how politics works in this day and age. After all is that not what he himself is doing with regard to the Conservitive and Liberal parties and their leaders?
          • No, it isn't, and even if it was, that's not justification.

            • You mean to tell me that Mr. Laton is not picking items out of the other two leaders pasts and using them out of context and applying inuendo in order to discredit them. I sugest that you watch a few of the NDP ads and liten ot his retoric.
    • by brady8 (956551)

      He is a very sincere and genuine leader who I would really love to lead our country.

      It's too bad though that his party's platform is so far out in left field that it scares me. Some good ideas in there, such as their technology platform in general. But their protectionist policies would pretty much destroy our economy, including lending support (using my tax dollars) to unsustainable and uneconomical jobs for Canadian autoworkers, ending the North American Free Trade Agreement, and generally throwing money

    • by gmack (197796)

      He seems to genuinely care about his fellow man, and wants to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.

      Jack is nothing more than a walking soundbite. I lost any respect I had for him last election when he made a big show of handing a coin to a pan handler. As someone who has actually worked with street people I can tell you that the absolute worst thing you can do for them is give them money.

      And if he really was about solving conflicts he would not be so eager to accuse his opponents of "hidden agenda

    • by HungSoLow (809760)
      The problem with Layton is his stance on the welfare state: I'm all for free health care, higher taxes for the rich, social safety nets - but his policies punish people who work and earn their achievements. He would limit education scholarships and make them taxable and simultaneously dump more money into disabilities and unemployment welfare. I think people should have a safety net if they become incapacitated but it needs to be genuine. I know quite a few people on disability, and they deserve nothing the
    • by smartin (942)

      For those of you with short memories, the last time that the NDP had any real power (at least in Ontario) was with Bob Ray and they ran the province into the ground.

      Don't be fooled by a party full of idiots that happen to have the correct viewpoint on one issue. The last thing that Canada needs is the NDP in charge.

      • by Goalie_Ca (584234)
        They killed BC as well. In fact, they were so disliked they only got 2 seats in the following provincial election. The BC liberals totally dominated the legislature.
    • by schon (31600)

      I started doing some real research. And I have to say, he is the first politician (at that level) I've actually admired.

      Then either your research is poor, or you're easily swayed by emotion rather than logic.

      He speaks with a level of candor and immense credibility that is so rare.

      Credibility?!?! OK, you really haven't done any research. He's prone to hyperbole ("Harper wants to quit his job as PM") and can't accept responsibility for his own actions. ("It's not my fault - the Liberals *made* me do it!")

      want to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.

      Oh, come on. All he's ever done is fan the flames!

    • Generally speaking any party that has words 'democratic' or 'national' or 'communist' or 'socialist' is puke to me, I was born in the former Soviet Ukraine.

      Specifically it looks extremely ridiculous to me that a person who has never had a real job except of being a career politician (from a family of career politicians no less) talks about the underprivileged and the poor of the society. Layton is against a 2tiered health care system yet he used private health care himself.

      Layton is a snake who speaks what

  • Does video professor have a P2P course? ;-)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Why are the people in the P2Pnet logo waving handguns around? I have nothing against proper use of handguns, but what is that in the logo?
  • How Ironic (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by dskoll (99328)
    Use of modern P2P technology by an old-style socialist party whose policies have been discredited since the 1970's.
  • Regulation (Score:2, Informative)

    by Narishma (822073)
    But isn't increased Internet regulation necessary to prevent big companies to do whatever they want at the expense of regular users?
  • by ip_freely_2000 (577249) on Sunday October 12, 2008 @01:06PM (#25346103)

    They're just to left-wing wacky on too many issues to be in power. I like them as a solid opposition though, they keep things relatively honest.

    I've been voting Conservative since I started making good money.....but their copyright stance is just stupid and American. I may vote Green this time.

    • by MarkRose (820682)
      I voted Green in advanced polling. It makes so much sense to me to move the tax burden from what's good in society to what's bad in society: reduce income and corporate taxes and tax pollution instead. This not only increases the reward for productive effort while discouraging negative activity, it also encourage the economy to become more efficient and thus more competitive.
      • Then why not vote Liberal and actually have a chance to that policy being implemented?
        • by MarkRose (820682)
          Because I'm voting for all the other policies the Green Party has, not just one. I don't agree with them all, but I think, on the whole, they have the best ideas.
  • by randito (159822)

    The NDP is pretty tech savvy usually. They have two other platform points that are interesting, although populist:

    1. Ban bank fees for using competing banks ATMs. Canadian banks are much larger than their american counterparts, and are more profitable. The mortgage crisis here has been avoided due to more goverment regulation, and the banks are expected to continue to profit at the expense of poorer people who are hit with elevated service charges. Bank fees on ATMs stiffle competition by encouraging peopl
    • by Brickwall (985910)
      Um, Canadian banks are larger than the American ones? Don't tell the people at Citi, or JPMorgan Chase, or Bank of America, or any of the other three US banks that are larger than Royal, Canada's biggest bank. Citi had revenues of $131 billion in 2006, while Royal had revenues of $24 billion. That's less than 20% of Citi's take.

      And the reason we're not having a mortgage crisis is most people still get their mortgages from the banks, who expect to be repaid. In the US, the creation of CDO's spurred the gr

      • by Tuoqui (1091447)

        Yeah but how much of that $131 billion that Citi has is part of the bad mortgage scheme that happened? Could it be that they're overstating their revenues using fancy pants accounting?

  • Layton's platform would kill so many jobs ...

    Raising corporate taxes from 22% up to 30% as we get sucked into the US made financial crisis would make us so uncompetitive. He promises to do this to raise money for his child benefit plan. But we won't need his child care plan, we'll be stuck at home all day with the kids without jobs.

    Layton was doing well in the polls (for the NDP) ... right up to the day the official NDP platform was released and Canadians let out a collective WTFOMGRUN !!!

    Layton has to sup

  • The thing I'm finding with Layton's NDP is they're saying a lot of things that make sense, things that would benefit society at large, but they are the ONLY ones making such promises. This begs the question of how are they going to make it all happen ? The answer is: they aren't.

    I don't think anyone is remotely concerned about the NDP winning the federal election. The NDP excels as being the 3rd wheel in minority governments, as they proved back in the Trudeau years. For that reason, it is highly unlike

  • Maybe not ready for primetime but would be nice to see him as leader of the opposition in a minority government. I just can't respect Dion for abstaining from so many votes in the last parliament, basically giving the Tories an effective Majority. Harper backed him in a corner many times, just daring him to bring down the government and trigger an election. What did he do? He stuck his head in the sand instead of doing the right thing and taking Harper on like a man. Shameful and not worthy of running o
  • Full disclosure, I was heavily leaning toward voting NDP anyway, but this has won me over. While there's a little bit of me that considers that this may just be pandering, I think Jack Layton would make a great leader, I agree with just about all of their policies, and I think that they tap into what most Canadians want from their government.

    If you saw the debate a while back, it was pretty much Harper attacking and everyone else attacking back, but Layton seemed to have the most concrete plans and platfor

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