YouTube Reposts Anti-Scientology Videos 435
Ian Lamont writes "YouTube has reposted anti-Scientology videos and reinstated suspended YouTube accounts after receiving thousands of apparently bogus DCMA take-down notices. Four thousand notices were sent to YouTube last Thursday and Friday by American Rights Counsel, LLC. After YouTube users responded with counter-notices, many of the videos were reposted. It turns out that the American Rights Counsel had no copyright claim on the videos, and the group may not even exist, although the text of the DCMA notices have been linked to a Wikipedia editor. While filing a false DMCA notice is a criminal offense, prosecution in these cases rarely comes about."
First? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:5, Insightful)
Great - another 600 bigoted posts about Scientology.
Scientology is a great, true faith. But you guys don't know anything about faith, do you.
I'm an atheist, and while I think the middle eastern religions are pretty horrid, Scientology is pure insanity. Xenu? DC10s? Thetans?
LOL, psyco.
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:0, Insightful)
Successful troll is successful.
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:5, Insightful)
I meant that they probably want to portray themselves as a "oppressed minority" or something like that...
Although I seriously doubt the ACLU would fall for it
Isn't it also illegal (Score:5, Insightful)
Not just to file fraudulant DMCA notices, but also to do so in the name of a Business that doesn't exist? I'd think someone, somewhere would want to take this opportunity to finally push back and sue for false allegations filed by a fradulant company in the name of an entity that was not part of the original notice. Might make a statement, (especially from YouTube) that we won't simply allow people to negligently file take down notices on material they don't even own the copyright to.
Re:Of course. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Of course. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Teach them a lesson (Score:3, Insightful)
While filing a false DMCA notice is a criminal offense, prosecution in these cases rarely comes about.
Sounds like this would be a good time to start. I can't think of a nicer group of people to sue.
You *know* that if one of us violated the DMCA we'd be jumped on in a heartbeat. The DMCA is a farce to begin with, but when they only enforce the provisions one-sidedly they are really exposing it for piece of crap, purchased fraud that it is.
Re:Should be worth pressing charges. (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. It might be economically worth their time for Google to set the precedent that bogus DMCA notices en masse will lead to a lawsuit, so that they can limit the number of staff they'll have to hire to handle requests.
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:2, Insightful)
Mission Accomplished (Score:5, Insightful)
They now have the names and addresses of the posters who responsed with DMCA counter-notices, and those individuals are now free to be "fair-gamed".
Re:It should be a civil matter, too (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it needs to be more than $250K.
Take the maximum fine for willful copyright infringement. Triple it (ala RICO). That should be the fine, per notice.
Re:This is why the prosecution monopoly is bad (Score:1, Insightful)
While filing a false DMCA notice is a criminal offense, prosecution in these cases rarely comes about."
Anyone should be able to bring evidence to a judge, and bring charges against someone in a felony or serious misdemeanor case. If someone shuts down your YouTube account via false DMCA notices, and a US Attorney won't take it, you should be able to hire your own prosecutor to press charges against the individual.
Do you really want big corporations to be able to initiate criminal prosecutions against individuals? As far I'm concerned they've got plenty of power at the moment. For example, do you want the RIAA and MPAA being able to initiate a criminal prosecution against alledged file sharers, security researches that expose how to circumvent DRM, etc?
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:3, Insightful)
heh. Except you don't actually have to give the Catholic church ANYTHING, and you can still belong. Insightful? I think not.
Re:What's with the scientology hatred? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're an old usenet geek, you have plenty of reason to hate them. If you're an old slashdot geek, you also have plenty of reason to hate them. If you're a YouTube user, you also have plenty of reason to hate them. I'd wager that large parts of /. fall into all three categories.
There's been no large, concentrated legal attack on internet freedom from the other religions, to my knowledge, so I feel Scientology is rightfully getting attacked. If you also take the threats of violence, the stalking by PIs, the systematic exploitation of their own members and everything else into account, then it's an even easier choice.
Also of note is that Scientology is just as hateful towards gays as the Big Three religions, so I'm not sure where you're going with that.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:2, Insightful)
Why are those things any more insane than...
* talking to angels (Mohammed was crazy)
* taking a lil' cruise to heaven and hell (yea, Mohammed was mucho loco)
* parthenogenesis by a human ("virgin" Mary, my ass)
* voices from a burning bush (Moses was another nutjob)
* genital mutilation (Moses was also one sick fuck)
It's hard to rank the degree of their insanity, but perhaps you could say Scientologist theology is sillier. Although maybe that's just because it is newer. Give them time.
Re:Of course. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Should be worth pressing charges. (Score:5, Insightful)
If they can establish that it actually was someone from the scientology church with authorization to send these notes, Google could refuse to take down any more videos without investigating the claims first. Their takedown notices, if they have merit, would still be honored, but the takedown would be delayed until they get a chance to look into the issue.
Re:Should be worth pressing charges. (Score:2, Insightful)
For all the reasons they'd have to do it, there's also a lot of people who'd like to embarrass that group by acting in their name.
No joke. Seems like no matter who did it, it makes Scientology look bad.
Outed? (Score:5, Insightful)
But now, anyone who filed a counter-response to the Take Down is "outed" on documents that Scientology can subpoena.
Re:First? (Score:2, Insightful)
Is there some kind of rule that if it's in a hyperlink, it's spelled 'DCMA', but if it's plain text, it's 'DMCA'? And good on YouTube for reposting the content.
It's the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, so I assume that anyone spelling the acronym as DCMA couldn't be bothered to do some basic proofreading. I mean, the nature of a thing doesn't change just because you place an A HREF tag around it ...
What's Scientology? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:5, Insightful)
Lol, who gives a crap about the faith? They can believe what they want, it's the bullying, censorship and child maltreatment that gets me.
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, because a zombie born by a virgin and fathered by sky-guy is sane.
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:3, Insightful)
Good heavens. If you're pointing at one case and declaring the organization to be murderers, I'm assuming you couldn't possibly be part of any church. Show me a church that has spilled no blood in its history, and I'll show you empty pews.
Re:Should be worth pressing charges. (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, companies are only required to comply with valid DMCA notices, for fairly obvious reasons. A company has every right to verify that a notice is valid before taking action. YouTube would have been entirely in its legal rights to ignore the requests it got. It is unfortunate that large internet companies have no interest in defending their users' right to free speech.
Growing Immunity (Score:3, Insightful)
Google should be developing a resistance to invalid censorship attempts like these meritless DMCA takedown notices. It should be much harder to trick Google into even temporary suspension. Soon enough, Google should learn that the burden of proof is on the censor, and leave content untouched until the attempting censor proves their case on facts and logic, not screeches and innuendo.
And Google's lesson should be the model for the rest who have to compete in the environment so influenced by Google in it.
FWIW, the DMCA should be amended to require takedown notices to first notify the accused infringer, and include the counternotice procedure and framework, before even notifying a 3rd party like Google (or any other independent publisher of other people's content). That reform would go a long way to making the DMCA less a club with which to intimidate without merit, and closer to some kind of protection of "progress in science and the useful arts" that is any copyright action's only legitimate basis.
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:1, Insightful)
Always gotta be the Catholic's fault, dammit if we aren't the punching bag whenever sciofags aren't, yet we give out cookies to protesters at our churches.
Despite people within the church taking money, which undoubtably has been done in the past and will probably be done in the future, there have been many faithful catholics who have died for the sakes of the needy; and have even stopped wars through peaceful alternatives. Scientology bullbaits, we're supposed to take the beating and live with it.
But Mr. Tool fan, before you bash us again, you should read about Lisa Mcphearson; all of their own followers that they have led to death, and or destitution; whereas the catholic church at least uses some of the money to house the homeless; the COS uses you to house "believers" in your house;.
Re:What's with the scientology hatred? (Score:4, Insightful)
At the moment, Christianity isn't run for profit (Roman Catholic church notwithstanding).
Citation needed.
Re:Religions and their Back-Stories (Score:2, Insightful)
Then where's the body? We know Jesus was executed because we have other sources such as Tacitus and Josephus. If the religious or political authorities in Jerusalem took it, they could have easily produced it and ended the Christian "cult" right there. If the early believers had taken it, would they have been willing to die for what they knew was a lie?
As for the golden tablets, only Joseph Smith claimed to have seen them. Only L. Ron Hubbard claimed to have knowledge of the events recorded in OT3. The Bible, which stands up textual criticism at least with its many corroborating MS, claims that hundreds saw Jesus alive after his execution and while no secular sources confirm this, at least none give evidence to deny it.
What's really sad (Score:5, Insightful)
What's really sad is that your wife's way of thinking is typical here in America.
It's not real unless you saw it on TV.
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:3, Insightful)
* Zombie Jesus (Resurrection)
* Cannibalism (Transubstantiation)
* Human / Deity Chimeras (Son of God)
Oh pulllllleeeze (Score:5, Insightful)
Totalitarian control is the only outcome of IP? And this got modded up to 5?
I've seen some pretty ridiculous shit from the anti-IP people; but that's one heck of a strawman you've got there. IP is a tool like any other. A totalitarian government will use it as a tool to enforce draconian discipline. A better government will use it to secure rights for creative people. Let's have some fun:
IP is nowhere near as deadly as road construction. That is why, as I keep pointing out, the so called "transportation infrastructure" has the ulitmate effect of creating a totalitarian society. It happens via the deadly mix of technological progress creating increased mobility for both the populace and the military, and resulting in the ever more draconian incursion of armed troops into daily life. That impacts society so because the ability to move troops is the control of our everday lives (as is the only logical outcome of road construction) and must lead to a totalitarian society as a whole.
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, stories about aliens flying planes across space to dump other aliens into our volcanoes... that's insane.
A story about an ark carrying two of every animal in existence with enough food and supplies to last them forty days and forty nights... Well, guess that's pretty insane, too.
Most religions have their crazy stories. I find it odd that, as an atheist, I'm less critical of scientologists' beliefs than people of other faiths that have crazy beliefs of their own.
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:4, Insightful)
Unfortunately the human mind is easily manipulated and by then you'll have been so effectively brainwashed that you will be more than happy to believe it.
Re:Should be worth pressing charges. (Score:5, Insightful)
Replace 'scientologists' with 'corporate oligarchs' and you'd be right. Scientology is rich and powerful, but it's nothing compared to the automobile industry, or the recording industry, or pharmaceutical industry, etc.
Re:E-meter videos? (Score:3, Insightful)
You'd think, then, that it'd be more effective in detecting the half-assed lies of the people promoting it...
It all depends on interpretation. The Roman Catholic Church tried something similar by keeping their holy texts locked in a (mostly) dead language. The flaw to this was that is was possible to learn the language. Scientology has managed to remove the flaw by replacing the language with a black box.
Wrigley Field Trick? (Score:3, Insightful)
How hard would it be to do what the Blues Brothers did, and supply a bogus address to the authorities? If you are swinging against CoS, you probably already know about the fair gaming thing, and may be using a front. It's funny that CoS used a front too. Then you've got two fronts going against eachother, and the authorities just toss the case into a cardboard box to be shredded at some date in the future. The only real victims would be the poor saps who criticise such an organization without realizing that they just tossed marinara on the don's nice white shirt.
Re:Racial Bigotry (Score:2, Insightful)
As opposed to...
This guy lives up in the sky and a long time ago he made all the people out of clay, cause he was lonely or something. He didn't like the people and killed them all by flooding the whole globe - all except for this one guy and his family who was supposed to save the animals by building a big boat. It gets worse.
Or...
This guy lives up in the sky and his son (who really isn't his son but really him but not really him) comes down to earth as the illegitimate son of an unmarried Jewish girl (who his real dad knocked up through an angel, so although he's a bastard its okay). So this kid grows up and saves the world by getting nailed to a cross (or a tree) but he didn't really die. Okay, he did die but he came back to life and then floated up into the sky to join his dad/self. And if you wish really hard someday you can go up there too, after you die.
Or...
[INSERT STUPID DEFINITION OF SOME OTHER RELIGION HERE]
No religion passes the belief test. Get over it.
Re:Teach them a lesson (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, it would be "prosecute", not sue, as this is a criminal offense, and requires a criminal prosecution.
All nitpicking aside though, I agree. It sounds like the crazy Scientologists are at it again, and SOMEONE needs to take those crazies down a few notches.
Anonymous to the rescue! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group) [wikipedia.org]
Re:This is why the prosecution monopoly is bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, because what the US needs is more power for people to hit each other over the head with lawsuits. It's one thing to be hit with fairly bullshit claims in civil court, in worst case you're out some cash. Now private prosecutors that can land your ass in jail with a criminal record? Even if the charges don't stick, unless they're so bogus you can countersue it's going to cost you a shitload of time and money to defend yourself. Besides prosecutors alone are fairly inept, the next step will of course be private cops since it's usually cases the police doesn't bother to investigate further and without evidence there's no case. Very soon you will have private "justice".
Re:Should be worth pressing charges. (Score:2, Insightful)
While it is certainly possible that this is the case, I think this may be over complicating matters. I imagine YouTube gets a very large number of DMCA notices on any given day. If anyone works for Google/YouTube, maybe they can answer, but if it was my system, I'd have a automated process that would automatically flag any complaints and their related media and have it temporarily disable the content until a human could review the claim(s), and either pull it permanently or re-enable it.
But that's just me. Maybe I'm giving companies more credit than they deserve. But that would protect them within the bounds of the law, and still make sure legal material was re-posted as soon as the complaint was invalidated.
Re:What's really sad (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What's with the scientology hatred? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, for one, Scientology has nothing to do with science. It's beliefs are straight out of L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction books. The beliefs of most established religions are much more plausible than Scientology, plus many of those established religions are able to adapt themselves to modern science. Believe it or not, most modern Christians (non-evangelicals) believe that the Big Bang happened and God caused it, and the 7 days thing is because God lives outside of our time. I, though, do not follow this belief, but it's a very valid one that is compatible with known science. Scientology doesn't do that. They deny science and lay out their own beliefs that supersede science, according to them.
Two, they love oppressing all they can. The DMCA takedowns of opposition videos is just one thing. They love to threaten and harass opposition because that's all they can do to protect themselves.
Third, it's a money-making cult. Scientologists brainwash people into believing their hogwash and then bleed them dry. I forget the actual figures but you're supposed to give a substantial amount of your income to the 'church', and this isn't like tithes to a Christian church that benefit the church as a whole and also the community around it. These just get sucked back into the pockets of the Scientology upper echelons. Also, in Scientology you're supposed to buy your way into enlightenment. The more money you give to them, the more access to the basis texts you have. And, as I said, they brainwash people into believing their hogwash. They take in those who are most impressionable and have low self-esteem who can easily be molded. It's sad, really, on how such an evil (I do think of Scientology as evil like any other cult, but not so much so with religions) organization will prey on people and take advantage of them.
Also, flame me if you will for not hating on other religions, as is often the style here, but they aren't all that bad. Sure they've mostly all done some bad stuff in the past, but the also have all done some good stuff too. And at least with them you're free to leave and not totally brainwashed.
Re:Should be worth pressing charges. (Score:3, Insightful)