Hacker Uncovers Chinese Olympic Fraud 1275
SkeptOlympics writes "A new chapter in the ongoing controversy surrounding China's women's gymnastics team opened today, as search engine hacker stryde.hax found surviving copies of official registration documents issued by China's General Administration of Sport of China. The incriminating documents, expunged by censors from the official site and from Google's document cache, still appear in the document translation cache of Chinese search giant Baidu, here (1) and here (2), showing the age of one of China's gold medal winning gymnasts to be 14 instead of 16, the minimum age for competition presented on her government-issued passport. Now that official government documentation is available, how long will the IOC be able to keep a lid on this scandal?" I imagine the answer is "Forever."
My question is (Score:5, Interesting)
Losing credibility fast. (Score:5, Interesting)
The IOC is going to lose a LOT of credibility over this (as if they have much left to begin with) if they don't do something about it soon.
I wouldn't even mind if they didn't award the gold to the American women. Let them keep the silver, but it needs to be stripped from the Chinese. This is only proof of one of them being underage, but from what I've been reading, it's starting to seem pretty certain that at least 3 of them are underage.
And if China was willing to cheat this blatantly in this event, it makes you wonder what might have been going on behind closed doors with the rest of their athletes.
Don't be evil (Score:5, Interesting)
So much for don't be evil...
Re:A big deal will get made (Score:5, Interesting)
This gossip and tabloid type scandal is perfect for more distraction of the public. Even if nothing happens now, in China- The US news will be plastered.
What war in Iraq?
Dude, the war in Iraq isn't going anywhere.
Neither is the war in Georgia/Ossetia.
And the Olympics are over in a few days.
Everyone with a tv or radio knows that Condi Rice is skipping the closing ceremonies because of emergency NATO meetings about Russian & because Musharraf just resigned.
Part of the reasons the IOC chose China was to shine a spotlight on their censorious, opaque and human-rights-violating ways. The idea being that, if the Chinese government gets enough egg on their face, they might decide anything is better than being humiliated/embarrassed in front of the world. At most, that high wattage bulb is going to be shining for another week.
Don't just take screen shots... (Score:3, Interesting)
Download the spreadsheets. If someone has a copy of the one from Google's cache and can do a raw text search on it instead of just looking at the rendered version it might be possible to determine who removed Kexin's entry thanks to Microsoft's leaky file formats.
Re:Re-education (Score:5, Interesting)
Unlike "Do no Evil" Google.
http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2008/08/hack-olympics.html [blogspot.com]
1. Google's cached copy of the spreadsheet does not contain Hexin's age record, and Baidu's does. This does not necessarily imply that Google allowed its data to be rewritten by Chinese censors, but the possibility does present itself.
2. From the minute I pressed the publish button on this blog, the clock is ticking until Hexin's true age is wiped out of the Baidu cache forever. It is up to you, the folks reading this blog, to take your own screenshots and notarize them by publishing them. If you put a link in the comments section, I'll post it.
Hmm, that reminds me of something
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_hole [wikipedia.org]
In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages, to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and in the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building.(pp. 34-35 1984 by George Orwell)
Totalitarian societies will always have memory holes to destroy documents with politically inconvenient facts in them, and armies of minions writing replacement documents without those facts. But it's very, very sad to see Google seemingly cooperating in this process.
I took a screenshot of the age in the Baidu cache -
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2111/199411bw0.png [imageshack.us]
Re:Minimum Age (Score:5, Interesting)
It's to do with the safety of the competitors (underdeveloped bones etc.) as gymnastics takes much more of a toll on your body than swimming (being exceedingly hig. I would wager being younger, and lighter, also helps on things like the Asymmetric Bars.
If my recollection of Sanjay Gupta's comments on CNN is of any value, I believe the issue is the opposite, namely that underdeveloped bones confer a real advantage to the athlete (they're more "bendy" in addition to being "lighter").
forget the IOC (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Minimum Age (Score:5, Interesting)
1. In some areas of gymnastics being young gives you and advantage.
2. The training can be very harmful to young women.
3. It is the rules. You know just like it is a rule that you can not take certain drugs, use certain tennis rackets, and so on.
So these Olympics has really been a show case for China.
It shows that they will say one thing like agreeing to freedom of the press and then do something totally different.
And that they will cheat at the Government level even for something so trivial as winning a game.
Oh and that they think clean air is just not all that important.
Good show.
no context, can't read chinese (Score:2, Interesting)
however, the first two lines do translate to "Gymnasts reported to the National Registry"; the third '"No.", "name (in)", "Sex" and "Date of Birth", "native", "birth" and "registered", "Remarks"' and the last 'Note: The total registered 1050; which recognizes 753; first Note 297; exchange 13' according to google translate.
Re:My question is (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course even if the gymnasts are stripped of their medals, most people in China will never know of it.
Re:Nothing will happen (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not an issue of cheating but an issue of keeping children safe.
The minimum age for diving is even younger: 14. So it obviously has nothing to do with protecting children from the pressure of Olympic competition. Anyway, these kids start training when they're very young, often with the explicit intent of trying to get into the Olympics.
Re:A big deal will get made (Score:2, Interesting)
Speaking of sexuality, does this mean that the various networks who transmitted the gymnastic event are guilty of pandering to paedophiles ? I mean, they transmitted video of underage girls in tight clothes bending every way on public television.
Re:Re-education (Score:2, Interesting)
I believe it's called waterboarding in the Bush administration.
Why does everything have to lead back to the Bush Administration. Is your (and the GP's) hatred for Bush so great that there is no room left for true tyrants?
Bush is deserving of immense hatred. He is a true tyrant in his heart.
The fact that in two terms he didn't manage to completely dismantle American democracy speaks more to his general inability, and not to his true nature.
We complain because we still can. We say "Bush is like them (pointing at other tyrants), but we don't want to have government like them."
Would you be happier if we couldn't complain at all? Perhaps that's on the agenda, coming soon to an American reeducation camp near you. Is that what you want?
Re:My question is (Score:2, Interesting)
Is it a world-level scandal? Really? Because I, in the UK, had no idea, so I looked on the BBC website and there's no mention of it, even on the gymnastics page - so I searched for He Kexin and again the BBC site says nothing.
Given that we're a neutral country here, in that winning a bronze in gymnastics was big news for us, this suggests that it's not really a huge worldwide scandal, rather annoyance from the countries who could have won.
Maybe China are in the wrong, but it hasn't yet, as some here are suggesting, dragged the name of the IOC through the mud - and it certainly isn't as big a news story as those athletes who have positive drug tests.
Re:Nothing will happen (Score:3, Interesting)
LOL ... yer those pesky Chinese - sure is a good job that doesn't happen in England ... oh wait ... that's right, Bliar and his cronies made it illegal (in 2005 [wikipedia.org]) to protest outside Parliament (in Parliament Square [wikipedia.org]) without getting permission first!
Funniest thing is, they did it pretty much specifically to get rid of Brian Haw [wikipedia.org] who had been camped outside Parliament since 2001 campaigning against the Gulf War - but because he was already there, and the amendment to the act couldn't be applied to 'events' occuring before the amendment, they STILL couldn't shift him! Even when Blair and his Nu-Labour (Nu-Danger) henchmen try to clamp down on the population's freedoms they can't get it right!
Re:My question is (Score:2, Interesting)
is this seen as a scandal the world over, or just in America?
This is a world-level scandal. Look at the awards the illegal gymnasts have won, think of the other competitors who followed the rules and finished one place out of medal contention. China is making a mockery of was once a good thing. Does China even know how much of a fool they look to the rest of the world with their stance on human rights, privacy and now even this, cheating at the very olympic games that are supposed to be showing how superior they are? If anything, China is proving just how corrupt their whole system of government has become. People's Republic my arse. As if the people have a say anymore.
Um. Anymore? When was China ever run by the people? That is why it is called a Communist Oligarchy, it has never been run "by the people" that would require an actual Democratic Republic.
Re:Nothing will happen (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Nothing will happen (Score:4, Interesting)
There are possible issues regarding an advantage, but I was also under the impression that the rules were (at least partially) there to help protect children from crazy training and undue pressure.
Whatever the case, rules are rules, and the IOC should give out whatever punishment is due. I would assume that some specific action is dictated by their rules in cases where this particular rule has been shown to be broken?
The Value(s) of a Gold Medal (Score:2, Interesting)
The way I see it, it is possible that China is acting within an ethical framework - albeit one that most Western societies don't agree with. From their point of view, they're putting their best athlete forward - and doing so seems natural. The age restriction is something that is there to satisfy Western mores; that children should not be competing at that level. Actually, I think our objection there is rather poorly defined. Why don't we allow children to compete?
From that point of view, China is adhering to the idea that you break rules you find unreasonable. What makes their actions unethical is that they're not owning them - presumably out of desire for the gold. They could very easily say "Yes, the girl is 14, but she won - the rule is bad." The IOC could take away the gold at that point (would possibly have to), but that is all the more reason that China could give as to why the rest of the world is not as awesome as they are; that they have to take away gold medals from true winners and hide behind some sort of age discrimination.
What is the correct western action? I actually think it's to embrace the idea that not sending children to the Olympics is a value we find important, and a rule we will adopt for ourselves - in our regional or country Olympic Committees - and not attempt to enforce on other contestants. It speaks much louder to say, "We could put forth an underage contestant but we find that unpalatable. Therefore we will act in accordance with our beliefs and put in only older athletes." Of course, the consequence to both ethical actions is fewer gold medals.
That the argument becomes about whether or not China adhered to an arbitrary rule set for, you have to admit, somewhat obfuscated reasons is a travesty. What is really objectionable to the West is how they treat people; they raise their athletes in creches, training them from birth to be the best they can possibly be in the one thing - but never giving them a choice. Our fault here is that we allow ourselves to shift the argument to whether a rule was broken, obscuring the actual actions that matter by talking about the lie.
The worst part about that is it follows our general trend of failing to get at the root issues that are of true concern; people suffering under an authoritarian regime is of real concern. That regime lying is, well, almost to be expected. Yet, of these two issues, the lie is the thing we will argue endlessly about - and throw our hands up at the actual suffering. The deepest part of the cut, though, is that we do this so that we can sate our own egos; we refuse to take a high moral stance because we're too concerned ourselves with getting gold medals to do so. The medals, and arguments over them, become a proxy for the real conflicts in values. But it's a meaningless proxy, and not one worth our time or emotional energy - nevermind the loss of character we incur when we ignore actual wrongdoing for the sake of winning a contest.
Re:Re-education (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe it's called waterboarding in the Bush administration.
Why does everything have to lead back to the Bush Administration. Is your (and the GP's) hatred for Bush so great that there is no room left for true tyrants?
Bush is deserving of immense hatred. He is a true tyrant in his heart.
Given the topic at hand (China), it shows your ignorance as to what a tyrant truly is.
The fact that in two terms he didn't manage to completely dismantle American democracy speaks more to his general inability, and not to his true nature.
Sounds like you are making shit up as you go along. You have no idea what Bush's true nature is. Only Bush himself knows that. Let me try the argument against you. The fact that you are not raping little boys only shows your impotence, not your true nature. My argument is just as valid as yours.
I have not met GW Bush, but being from Houston, I have been at events that his parents attended. My parents have a friend who is bound to a wheel chair and because of this, she has to get seats that are wheelchair accessible. In some venues, these are great seats. Often, we find ourselves sitting close to George HW Bush. HW, as you remember was also president and people like you made similar attacks against him. What I've seen from George HW and Barbara Bush is that they are kind, caring people. I remember at the Houston Rodeo, every time George got up from his seat, he would place his hand on our friend's shoulder, ask how she was doing or some other gesture showing concern. There were no cameras around or press to report his "kindness". He was not running for office or had any other reason to fake concern. He was genuine. I've known people have met our current president under similar circumstances and they have told me that he acted the same. I've known people who work in a restaurant that Bush has eaten at. Often times, he will sneak off to the kitchen to "shoot-the-breeze" with the guys working back there. Things like this show me that when people bash someone relentlessly, they often don't know WTF they are talking about. I place you in that group.
We complain because we still can. We say "Bush is like them (pointing at other tyrants), but we don't want to have government like them."
Would you be happier if we couldn't complain at all? Perhaps that's on the agenda, coming soon to an American reeducation camp near you. Is that what you want?
The fact that we can still complain proves that you are full of shit. When I see you or anyone else hauled off to "reeducation camps" I'll fight with you. But that's not happening, nor will it. Read the following sentence and repeat it until it as necessary: "THERE ARE NO REEDUCATION CAMPS". Your bringing it up shows me that you need to stop reading InforWars.com and put the bong down. You have left reality.
Re:Nothing will happen (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally though I'm ambivalent about the age restriction. Yes, it's a valid concern, But young gymnasts are still going to push themselves (and be pushed by others) beyond what's probably safe or healthy even at lower levels of competition or just in preparation for when they will be old enough to compete. Perhaps if all gymnastic competition at all levels were restricted it would minimize the issue. The two girls I know with these problems never competed at those highest levels yet still have the health issues they have.
Re:But Seriously (Score:3, Interesting)
I think to anyone who watched the events, China's gold is definitely tainted.
Re:Re-education (Score:2, Interesting)
The mods must be Republican today.
However, the view that the current President of the United States is a war criminal is not unique [www.welt.de] to myself. [wikipedia.org]
I don't really deserve the troll mod. I'm not here trying to piss people off. If you're asking why Bush is hated, you simply have not considered the enormity of his crimes, and the grievous injury he has done to whatever national soul we have. The country is so sharply divided that in some sense these Olympic games are a godsend--for a brief while, we have heroes that we can stand up and cheer for, and be proud of, and for a time we can forget our differences.
In a short while it will be over, and the war will still be ongoing, the government will still be spying on its citizens, and possibly-innocent will still be rotting in Guantanamo Bay. The next leader of the country will inherit a mantle of shame and distrust, and a failing economy. This is the world that George Bush has shepherded into being. May God have mercy on his soul---no one on Earth seems likely to dispense justice upon him.
Re:The Value(s) of a Gold Medal (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The Value(s) of a Gold Medal (Score:2, Interesting)
What do Chinese courts have to do with this? (Score:5, Interesting)
This isn't about law. This is about the Olympics. At the Olympics, the IOC has the final word on who gets a gold medal, and who doesn't. The 'laws' which are alleged to have been violated are the rules of the IOC, not the rules of Chinese law. What could be done about it is to disqualify the Chinese gymnast, and take away any gold medals which were awarded to her. That would be pretty extreme, and as you say, I doubt that will be done, because China would, as you say, just deny any evidence that she is too young, and brush it off as a clerical error which has been 'corrected'.