Digital Camera Powered By a Fuel Cell 117
An anonymous reader notes a development from the world of photography that could spread to notebooks and cell phones. Canon has filed for a patent on a fuel cell-powered DSLR. The fuel cell would power not only the camera body but also all accessories attached to it, doing away with the need to power flashes (for example) with AA or other batteries. The patent covers other electronic devices generally, but is clearly directed toward DSLR cameras, given the diagrams and examples used. "Canon continues to push its fuel cell development by devising a method for powering not only the internal DSLR body electronics, but also external components such as lenses and hotshoe flashes."
Powering the hot shoe? (Score:2, Funny)
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Water and air management[8] (in PEMFCs). In this type of fuel cell, the membrane must be hydrated, requiring water to be evaporated at precisely the same rate that it is produced. If water is evaporated too quickly, the membrane dries, resistance across it increases, and eventually it will crack, creating a gas "short circuit" where hydrogen and oxygen combine directly, generating heat that will damage the fuel cell. If the water is evaporated too slowly, the electrodes will flood, preventing the reactants from reaching the catalyst and stopping the reaction. Methods to manage water in cells are being developed like electroosmotic pumps focusing on flow control. Just as in a combustion engine, a steady ratio between the reactant and oxygen is necessary to keep the fuel cell operating efficiently.
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Hey now, you looked before you said that and that's cheating.
Re:Powering the hot shoe? (Score:4, Interesting)
But it seems to me from a quick read of the patent that this is exactly what this is.
It is more than an assertion that "although fuel cells can be used to power things, a camera is not a thing, hence this crap is patentable !"
It seems that some other manufacturer saw that a camera might supply power to or control and monitor the power within various strap-ons, like flash, power drive.
Canon seems to have added the idea that the camera body might also supply the fuel and monitor fuel cells within these strap-ons.
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lol... feul cell powered strap ons for your camera body... shit, im not keeping up on my fetish porn.
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Canon may not even be developing it (yet), they may just be trying to lock out the other dSLR manufacturers.
It sounds like an obvious idea, like software patents - slap together some well-known ideas (fuel cell, body-powered accessories, camera) and voila! "unique" idea. Let's patent it.
IANAPL - will every existing gizmo joined to a fuel cell yield a valid patent?
As a professional photographer... (Score:1)
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That's nothing! (Score:1, Funny)
I have a digital camera powered by a steam engine. And it is portable too (depending on rail locations)!
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Presumably Google will be coming out with one which just needs a road. IIRC the USAF even has some powered by avgas
oh boy (Score:1, Interesting)
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The trick is bio-disel! Think about it. You go on vacation and you get your device refueled when you get refueled at you favorite restaurant, even most high class restaurants have deep fryers.
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Ew! You bastard.
I live in a place popular with Fat American Tourists*. It's too easy to see them all with dripping cameras from squeezing a reload from the burger in their other hand... Much shuddering.
*Hell yes, I know you're not all like that. The loud ignorant slurpy-toting crowd is definitely just an unfortunately visible subset.
Re:oh boy (Score:5, Informative)
...As for fuel cells, you better have special ordered a new one if you run out cuz you can't recharge it like a lithium one or run to a gas station to get more like AAs.
From everything i've seen about fuel cells, when they get low you just refill them with alcohol or whatever fuel they use, which only takes a few seconds. You don't have to "special order a new one" when it runs low... Where did you even get that information? Did you honestly think this was a non-replenishable technology?
-Taylor
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There's already a few places planning to sell (or maybe selling by now. or gone out of business. I haven't heard anything about it for awhile.) sealed, single-use disposable fuel cells as on-the-go chargers for cell phones, mp3 players, PDAs, etc.
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The cells you are thinking of are borohydrate/borohydride with alkaline electrolyte and are (were?) manufactured by a company called medis.
You used to be able to get them at treostore.net but they don't seem to have them in stock there any longer.
They were pretty much a curiostiy - a VERY expensive ($20/use) disposable battery.
Re:oh boy (Score:5, Informative)
No.
"Fuel cell" refers to the module in which a membrane allows the following reaction to occur:
2H2 + 02 = 2H20
Or some variant if the reagent H2 source is a hydrocarbon.
A fuel cell will always have a reservoir of fuel, as will any engine or energy output mechanism. Thus a fuel cell can have a refillable "fuel tank" in which the user just ads the H2 source fuel, be it alcohol or some other liquid hydrocarbon.
Re:oh boy (Score:5, Informative)
The whole idea behind a fuel cell is the factory fills it up and then you use it until it's empty and swap it out and the factory refils it.
That's just wrong, sorry. The whole idea behind a fuel cell is that it's like a battery only you fill it with fuel instead of recharging it, and they last much longer in between fillings than a a battery does between charges. Fuel cells are generally intended to be quickly refilled by the user. There are variations on the concept but that's the most common scenario. Quick refilling is one of the two main advantages of fuel cells, yet you seem to have missed that...
-Taylor
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As I understand it, these run off alcohol. Denatured, or 200 proof? The denatured stuff often contains all sorts of crap besides methanol which might poison the catalyst.
And are we all going to have to be 21 years old then to possess the bottle of alcohol to refill the cell, or worse, drive with an alcohol fuel cell, breaking various laws.
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Low temperature cells of the type that would be used in this camera usually run on METHanol, not ETHanol.
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Actually...
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6559 [newscientist.com]
And they plan on running them on diesel fuel.
Something For "Make" Magazine (Score:2)
Couple a model aircraft engine to the generator out of one of those hand-crank radios.
I don't think you'd be allowed to use it on a plane, though, and it might be a little hard to get through airport security.
Re:Oh, come on.. (Score:4, Funny)
Ethanol fuel cells (Score:5, Funny)
Ethanol based fuel cells would seem to be perfect for this equipment, based on some professional photographers I've met in the past.
"One for you," pours vodka into the camera. "And one for me," while pouring some vodka into self. Rinse, repeat.
Re:Ethanol fuel cells (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Ethanol fuel cells (Score:4, Funny)
So that's why Canon cameras accept image stabilizer lenses [wikipedia.org].
...includes a plastic straw to empty the fuel tank (Score:2)
The alcohol becomes useless at about 30 proof. By a staggering coincidence this is just about right for drinking.
I'm going out to buy shares in companies which produce "scotch" flavoring.
A patent for what? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:A patent for what? (Score:5, Informative)
Unless they have a new type of fuel cell, what gives them the ability to patent "using a fuel cell in a camera"
Nobody has said anything about their ability to patent a fuel cell powered camera. The summary incorrectly says "patent" when it is actually an application which has not yet been examined.
as a patent examiner, I'm not allowed to post my opinion of patentability, but I will say that most cases are heavily modified from their original application form as this one is in now.
and yet... (Score:3, Interesting)
"as a patent examiner, I'm not allowed to post my opinion of patentability, but I will say that most cases are heavily modified from their original application form as this one is in now."
and yet... one-click. I wonder, and fear, what the original application for that was if the resulting 'heavily modified application'-based patent is still what it is now.
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By the way, one click was appealed and rejected and is no longer a patent.
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Your thoughts on this one [freepatentsonline.com], then?
------
Claims:
It is claimed:
1. A display control apparatus for image forming apparatus that features: a first operation panel with which operators can select multiple functions of an image forming apparatus that has aforementioned multiple functions; a second operation panel that is configured so that it can be loaded and unloaded freely to/from the aforementioned image forming apparatus and with which operators can select aforementioned multiple functions; a detection
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Shhhh ... this is just a slightly modified approach to the Amazon Patent method:
Patent something that uses electricity by adding "from a fuel cell" instead of "via the internet".
But don't tell anyone. Via the internet. Powered by a fuel cell.
Re:A patent for what? (Score:5, Informative)
That's what I thought too, until I looked at the diagram in the article. Instead of generating all the power in the camera and sending electricity to the attached devices, they are pumping fuel from the tank in the camera to individual fuel cells in each device. That's what the patent covers, not just "insert powerplant x into device y, patent, license, profit".
Seems kinda loony and ass-backwards, but it's definitely a unique idea I suppose. I still don't know if it satisfies my definition of non-obvious. One assumes an engineer came up with this when faced with the problem about how to provide enough power for arbitrary configurations without wasting fuel generating power that doesn't get used.
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what gives them the ability to patent "using a fuel cell in a camera"
The exciting thing about these new fuel cells is the form factor- they are proposing fuel cells in the shape of a small cylinder, about 50 mm long by 14 mm diameter, with the positive and negative terminals on opposing ends. You can even use more than one in a device, by connecting them in series or parallel. Have no doubt that this innovative idea is worthy of a patent (at least from the current patent office).
Oh well then... (Score:5, Insightful)
"The patent covers other electronic devices generally, but is clearly directed toward DSLR cameras, given the diagrams and examples used."
Canon and Nikon et al are pillars of openness and are renowned for sharing their technology freely. This will in no way hinder the adoption of fuel cell technology in electronic devices at all.
*cough*
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[0123]Further, the description has been made of the electronic equipment according to the present invention by taking a digital single-lens reflex camera system as an example. However, the present invention can be applied not only to the digital single-lens reflex camera system, but also to a small electronic equipment, for example, a compact camera, a PDA, a mobile phone, or a notebook personal computer. [0124]In the case of a personal computer system, a fuel tank charged with hydrogen fuel is provided to a portable personal computer body, and there is also provided a power generation cell for driving the personal computer body. A printer, a recording medium driving device, and the like, which are representative peripheral devices to be connected to the personal computer body, having an independent power generation cell may be connected to and integrated with the personal computer body. [0125]In the case of a mobile phone system, a fuel tank charged with hydrogen fuel is provided to a mobile phone body and there is provided a power generation cell for driving the mobile phone body. A radio, a television receiver tuner, an audio player, and the like having an independent power generation cell may be connected to and integrated with the mobile phone body. [0126]While the present invention has been described with reference to exemplary embodiments, it is to be understood that the invention is not limited to the disclosed exemplary embodiments. The scope of the following claims is to be accorded the broadest interpretation so as to encompass all such modifications and equivalent structures and functions.
Patent is about the connectors (Score:4, Informative)
The fuel cell would power not only the camera body but also all accessories attached to it
looking at the picture I'm pretty sure that's not what the patent covers. Instead all accessory will include it's own fuel cell.
The patent is about distributing the H2 to the different attachments.
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The fuel cell would power not only the camera body but also all accessories attached to it
looking at the picture I'm pretty sure that's not what the patent covers. Instead all accessory will include it's own fuel cell.
The patent is about distributing the H2 to the different attachments.
quoting from the patent application to back that up:
... a connection device connected to the electronic equipment body, independent power generation cells each disposed to the electronic equipment body and to the connection device, and a fuel storage vessel disposed to the electronic equipment body, in which fuel from the fuel storage vessel is suppliable to each of the independent power generation cells.
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I really don't see the point in that. Lenses themselves generally don't take much power, and a potentially complicated seal for a lens doesn't make sense. I don't know if flashes take excessive power, but it seems that those too could be handled by an up-sized central fuel cell in the camera and just deliver power rather than gasses. Even better yet, maybe a fuel cell in the flash itself if power is really that much of a concern. Besides, one of the popular things to do is use an off-camera flash for in
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Now, if I attach the SB-600 flash I have with it, that's a different story -- that's powered by AAs, and suc
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LSD? (Score:2)
We should petition Nikon to create and start producing cameras with displays based on the LSD technology.
I have a feeling a move like that would revolutionize photography.
Or better yet - LSD based optics. Instant surrealist photos.
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So what I think they want to do, is to avoid having batteries for the printer, the flash, the camera it self and other devices, but having a centralized battery, like laptops and
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This is changing, most of the latest models now have a 'live view' mode where you can compose the picture on the LCD. Also, try a big image stabalized telephoto lens... the camera batteries don't last long.
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So why not put the fuel cell in the flash then, and, if a flash is attached, allow it to power the dSLR and possibly recharge the (rechargable) battery?
No flash? Simply use the rechargable battery or swap in standard AAs. Add a flash? It has a long-lasting fuel cell, and, oh yeah, your camera lasts long, too. Pull off the flash and the battery is already topped off and ready to go.
Seems obvious to me.
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Compare the D30 [img-dpreview.com] to the D40 [img-dpreview.com] - same line of canon, 1 generation apart.
Also, some of the new models have a 'live view' that shows the image on the LCD just like a point n shoot.
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The power consumption of a high-end DSLR with external flashes and other acessories can be quite high.
As with fuel cell powered laptops ... (Score:5, Insightful)
As with fuel cell powered laptops, I have to wonder how exactly I would get this through airport security.
Big tubes of toothpaste and sticks of deodorant get confiscated, but they're going to let me waltz through toting a canister of (m)ethanol?
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Big tubes of toothpaste and sticks of deodorant get confiscated, but they're going to let me waltz through toting a canister of (m)ethanol?
It would probably be controlled by the same idiotic 4-1-1 policy that forces women to drink their own breast milk and other travelers to through out their water. As long as your fuel cell is 4 ounces or less, security will (likely) happily let you pass... Just don't you dare carry 5 ounces or there will be hell to pay.
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just like butane lighters =(
You can buy butane lighters inside of airports? I don't smoke, so I've never looked for them. But considering at least some airports won't even sell nail clippers (IAH in particular), I figured they wouldn't sell lighters either.
And considering that most airports are smoke-free anyways, what is the rationale for selling lighters? I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this, really.
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Big tubes of toothpaste and sticks of deodorant get confiscated, but they're going to let me waltz through toting a canister of (m)ethanol?
Damn! There goes my invention of the laptop fuel cell powered by C4.
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Your batteries contain much nastier chemicals than the methanol in the fuel cell.
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Er... yes, but I'm not pouring them into the camera, or pumping them around the camera in little tubes to power other peripherals, etc.
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Likely you will have to do just as currently with butane lighters: purchase an approved container (big gasket sealed foam padded screw-together heavy plastic job) and put it in there, and put it in your checked luggage.
This is not a patent (Score:5, Informative)
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You're telling me my application for a portable music device powered by a combination of 2 AAA, 1 AA, and 1 N battery is going to get rejected because it's obvious?!? Who the hell would have thought of that?
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Why should this be pateneable at all? (Score:2)
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Hey, thanks for the idea! Looks like nobody's got that one yet.
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Someone upthread said (after reading the application) that it's not about having a fuel cell in the camera or even having a fuel cell in the camera power the attachments. It's about having a fuel tank and fuel lines in the camera body which distributes the fuel to separate fuel cells in the camera and the attachments. I'd say that's fairly novel, if one doesn't compare it to air tools and a compressor.
Bottling Up Fuel Cell Innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
If Canon just put a fuelcell camera on the market, that action would actually advance fuelcell technology across our industrial society. Just patenting it does nothing but stop everyone else from taking that step.
But can it power my flying car? (Score:1)
Not until I see a fuel cell working I'll believe it.
Yes, but can you use it underwater? (Score:1)
And have they solved that annoying water dripping effect from condensation on the lenses?
Some of us don't carry de-fogging equipment around with us.
Big Wow (Score:2)
give Canon an earful (Score:2)
Imagine where batteries and consumer electronics were if any combination of lithium-ion/lead-acid/alkaline/... battery and camera/camcorder/radio/television/ipod/... were patented.
Even attempting to patent something like this is an outrage.
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Patenting a system having a fuel distribution system from the camera to the attachments so that you don't need a separate fuel storage tank in each device is an outrage? Seems pretty ingenious to me.
From the application:
[0013]According to the present invention, there is provided an electronic equipment system including an electronic equipment body, a connection device connected to the electronic equipment body, independent power generation cells each disposed to the electronic equipment body and to the connection device, and a fuel storage vessel disposed to the electronic equipment body, in which fuel from the fuel storage vessel is suppliable to each of the independent power generation cells.
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It's certainly a technical challenge, considering there's still lots of refinement going on in delivery to hydrogen cars at the refilling stations. This is stuff that's jostled around in a bag, then quickly assembled. It's great if they can pull it off in a reliable way, but that sounds like a pretty big "if".
Hydrogen? (Score:4, Insightful)
I am a fuel-cell researcher and when I RTFA'd I gasped—it seems they want to run this on hydrogen. They must be kidding. Normal H2 fuel cells run at about 80 C and require a hell of good cooling. Portable electronics is the domain of passive direct-methanol FCs.
Good luck selling people a can of explosive pressurised gas they have to hold close to their body, and a machine that has to heat up to 80 Celsius before it starts delivering power.
Anyway, I fail to see the inventive step in the camera. Fuel cells are not new. This type in particular does not seem new. The only new thing is that they stuffed it into a camera. Doesn't that qualify for trivial? Or can I file a patent for FC-powered drills and mixers?
You are forgetting Sony lithium battery incidents (Score:4, Funny)
Hydrogen bombs are the Next Logical Step in blowing up the customer.
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You'd think their chemists could convince them that all they needed was to go down the column of alkali metals-- or heck, slip some high explosive in there for a bigger bang, but I guess their minds were still on the Hindenburg.
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RTF patent application. They want to centralize fuel storage and distribute it to the attachements to each generate their own power in their own fuel cells.
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It would appear to make more sense to use some kind of electrical connection. Robust electrical connectors are rather easier than robust connectors for liquid or gas. Even a short circuit is less dangerous than a fuel leak.
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I'm thinking they're looking at ways to make the connections smaller and lighter, since some camera attachments take quite a bit of power. When you're dealing with a flammable fuel, a short circuit in the wrong part of the device isn't very safe, either. In the case of hydrogen, you're probably talking about a slightly flammable small leak that will dissipate into the air. If there's a spark that gets to the fuel storage, where the hydrogen is in a larger amount, then that sounds pretty bad. Either one does
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People will quite happily do this with butane.
Look At the Claims (Score:2, Informative)
Here are a list of the claims from the patent application. They are clearly trying to patent fuel supply control to multiple fuel cells.
1. An electronic equipment system comprising:an electronic equipment body;a connection device connected to the electronic equipment body;independent power generation cells each disposed to the electronic equipment body and to the connection device; anda fuel storage vessel disposed to the electronic equipment body,wherein fuel from the fuel storage vessel is suppliable to
From the patent application... (Score:2)
Good luck getting *that* past the TSA and onto an airplane.
Not what they applied for. (Score:2)
They didn't apply for a patent using a fuel cell in a DSLR. What they applied for a patent on was a method of powering a device from a bunch of fuel cells in sequence, so that a large current draw is spread among the cells and each cell has time to recover to full voltage even under load.
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"No more AA batteries..." (Score:3, Insightful)
Pretty gushy article: "Essentially, Canon wants its fuel cell to power everything you attach to your camera. Thatâ(TM)s right. No more AA batteries to stuff into your camera bag."
Yep, no more AA batteries, you'll just need to stuff little bottles of something like lighter fluid or butane or alcohol into your camera bag. And in order for those little bottles to be safe and not freak out TSA, they'll have to be fairly well-designed little gadgets.
And they'll need to clip neatly and securely into the camera. I betcha Canon and Nikon and Olympus will all have different and incompatible fuel canisters... and probably Canon will have different fuel canisters for different camera models. And if you don't buy a bunch and you do run out, the local camera store in the strange city will stock the fuel canisters for current models but not for your three-year-old model... and you'll need to shell out $129.95 for the adapter kit that lets you refill them from a propane cylinder, which, of course, you'll have to stuff into your gadget bag, too.
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I think you will pour fuel into the cell, not replace the cell itself.
You Begin To Grasp The Business Model (Score:2)
> I betcha Canon and Nikon and Olympus will all have different and incompatible fuel
> canisters... and probably Canon will have different fuel canisters for different camera
> models.
Hey, it worked for printers.
Missed the target (Score:2)
As someone who owns 2 DSLRs I think this isn't the right market. DSLRs are ridiculously power effecient. You can get 1000 shots maybe w/o charging a battery. I don't know how that turns to pro studio use but for me on vacation that's around 3-4 days. I can certainly stomach charging the battery at night or every 3 days.
The market is the prosumer camera that uses the LCD for framing and focus. That eats a lot of battery, but then does someone's mom taking pictures at a birthday party need a hydrogen fue
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A hydrogen fuel cell battery is probably really unsuitable for many applications because hydrogen is difficult to handle. If you want a fuel cell for a mass market appliance then one fueled by butane makes rathe
Lens power (Score:2)
...a method for powering not only the internal DSLR body electronics, but also external components such as lenses...
Do there even exist SLR lenses today which are not powered by the camera?
Please tell me this isn't innovative because they're actually suggesting something as incredibly stupid as piping hydrogen to another set of electrodes inside the other devices.
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Those which are powered by the human operating the camera
yro? (Score:1)
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Quick! (Score:2)
File a patent on using a fuel cell for every electric device you can think of.