IBM Granted "Paper-or-Plastic?" Patent 517
theodp writes "On Tuesday, IBM was granted US Patent No. 7,407,089 for storing a preference for paper or plastic grocery bags on customer cards and displaying a picture of said preference after a card is scanned. The invention, Big Blue explains, eliminates the 'unnecessary inconvenience for both the customer and the cashier' that results when 'Paper or Plastic?' must be asked. The patent claims also cover affixing a cute sticker of a paper or plastic bag to a customer card to indicate packaging preferences. So does this pass the 'significant technical content' test, IBM'ers?"
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Funny)
Would you like to kill a tree or a turtle?
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Funny)
Would you like to kill a tree or a turtle?
If I can chop down a tree so it lands on a turtle can I have both?
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Funny)
I'd rather just have turtle soup in a paper cup.
With chives.
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:4, Informative)
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
In Seattle Washington, our City Counsel just voted a 20 cent per bag (paper or plastic) tax. Indeed, the city also outlawed the sale of water in plastic single-use bottles in or on all city owned property. I believe that more and more municipalities are headed this direction.
But it's still an asinine patent that is a perfect example of one of the many problems with our patent system.
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Interesting)
In Australia we have bags that are bought in stores as well as plastic bags, giving people the choice on whether or not they're environmentally conscious.
However I saw a news report about research (the research's validity I know nothing about, so it could be complete hogwash) showing that the bags that are sold and used in preference to the plastic bags aren't biodegradable or recyclable (although they are reusable of course). In comparison there are biodegradable plastic bags which will degrade within 6 months of being buried in a dump.
I think the biodegradable plastic bags sound like the better choice and much more preferable then a 20 cent tax per bag (although it might end up costing more then 20 cents per bag, at least its actually doing something rather then just punishing people). Although I don't know if supermarkets (in either Australia or America) use the bio-degradable ones, or if they use the traditional plastic bags.
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
the really amazing thing here is that those bags seem to know where they are, so they don't decompose when they're not buried in a dump!
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know if that's actually illegal here or not, but after moving to Rotterdam (from Groningen btw), and being unable to find a place to dump glass, and other kinds of waste at a walking distance from my house, I tried searching on the city web pages for the closest point. Couldn't find any. They list only major locations far, far, far away.
I called them at this phone number. The lady said:
Get your car, and take them to...
Long story short: after telling them I did not have a car, and needed a place at a 15min walking distance, I was told I there was no such a place in the city center, and that I should simply dump my glass in the regular trash.
There are a lot of people living in the center of Rotterdam, but no underground trash disposing.
It may be illegal to throw these things in the trash, but even in the center of major cities in the NL, there is often no infrastructure to separate the trash, and the city gov. itself will tell you to trash everything together.
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the biodegradable plastic bags sound like the better choice and much more preferable then a 20 cent tax per bag (although it might end up costing more then 20 cents per bag, at least its actually doing something rather then just punishing people)
Your recommendation appears based on the notion that not using plastic bags is punishing someone. I don't see how alternative approaches can ever be considered punishment, given that convenience of any type involves a trade-off, and the negative connotations of the term are more appropriate for bumperstickers and negative campaign ads than for reasoned discussion.
By offering plastic bags, the tradeoff is mostly the wasteful use of resources vs. the customer being able to carry home their purchases. With plastic rings for 6-packs of aluminum cans, the tradeoff includes an even more wasteful use of resources, threats to the marine environment, and the collective cost borne by the rest of society vs. marketing effectiveness (6-packs on sale!) on the part of the retailer, and easy-to-carry benefits on the part of the consumer.
My own opinion is that anything that encourages environmental responsibility and awareness of the true costs involved by all parties is A Good Thing. If that requires a minor incovenience or a similarly minor change of habit and routine on the part of everyone involved, so be it. If it involves a surcharge, then the surcharge will remind people that they have to take into account what the realities are when they make their purchasing decisions and force them responsible for their actions. At the moment, we don't see $20 Environmentally Destructive Surcharge sticker on computer motherboards, but if it comes to that, I'm sure we'd all benefit from it.
You can, of course, seek or encourage compromise solutions. However, the plastic bag problem is relatively simple to fix, so I don't see any need to pursue half-hearted or partially-effective schemes at the periphery when something more fundamental needs addressing. Namely, resources of all types have their limits, we're too wasteful as a society, we're only too happy to remain ignorant of the consequences, and everything has a cost that someone, somewhere pays.
The irony here is that instead of taking the opportunity to use the plastic bag issue as a symbolic Step in the Right Direction and moving on with what we've learned, we're busy arguing over whether consumers are being punished.
Won't someone please think of the consumers! ;-)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If you don't get regular plastic bags free with your shopping, you end up buying bigger, thicker plastic bags wrapped in another plastic bag to throw out your rubbish. Plus obviously you've gotta buy a bag to put your shopping in. How is that more environmentally friendly? You probably use up two or three times the amount of plastic.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That's true, but our family gets far more bags than we use. All our rubbish goes into plastic grocery sacks, yet we have a large plastic bag full of hundreds of smaller bags that we've accumulated over the years. I've given a few hundred to animal shelters who use them to pick up dog waste. I threw away several hundred when it got to the point where we had probably well over 1000 bags. We started using reusable bags over a year ago, and we still have hundreds of plastic bags in the stash; probably enoug
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
Plastic bags are NOT a problem. Stop buying into it and read up.
1) The degrade a lot faster then paper bags.
2) Bags made in the US are not from oil(You didn't make this point, but it always crops up)
3) A lot of people use plastic bags as garbage bags. Getting rid of plastic grocery bags means more people are buying 'regular' trash bags; which are far worse in every respect.
Charging a fee hurts the poor. Yes, 1 dollar can mean the difference between eating and not eating.
How about we do it another way? a 20 cent discount for every reusable bag a customer uses?
A large portion of people would switch very quickly. Of course we still have the garbage bag issue.
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Interesting)
As much as I hate Wal-Mart, I have to say that they have been using biodegradable bags for a very long time. Good thing, too, because those loonies will try to put every single item in its own bag if you're not careful.
Personally, I'd rather just see biodegradable "plastic" bags than anything else. My wife and I reuse all shopping bags as trash bags, and although paper is a nice idea and all, it is basically useless for that or any other bag purpose, because it's not waterproof.
Over here in Japan, they not only give you a million bags, but they are non-biodegradable. You can buy "eco-bags," but to be perfectly honest, I don't like them. They're synthetic canvas, so I imagine they're much worse for the environment, and they look like crap after about 6 months. Walking around with a filthy, scruffy canvas bag is not really... my style.
That said, it would probably be fine if everyone did it, but that's not going to happen unless they start charging for bags, and then we'd have to buy trash bags anyway.
Biodegradable shopping bags, please!
Not all plastic... (Score:4, Informative)
Not all plastic comes from oil. Most forms of biodegradable plastics actually comes from organic substances, normally plant.
That's what makes them biodegradable.
How about - ATM language pref (Score:2)
I become tired of having to tell my bank card that I speak English. Why not have a bit on the card so that we don't have to repeat entering this info.
Re: (Score:2)
Why not simply set up ATMs so they display all information in all available languages? That's how it's done here, we got 4 languages in our ATMs and there's plenty of room to display them all. It's not like they display a whole EULA to read for you before you do business with them...
Re:How about - ATM language pref (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
In the UK, Marks and Spencers started charging about 5p for a carrier bag. I changed my habits to re-using carrier bags almost instantly. They seem to have stopped that and just give out really posh carrier bags with proper handles and everything. This also works as they look too posh to just stuff with rubbish and throw out.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, the one way plastic bottle causes less problems if properly recycled than reuse bottles do, environmentally. Cleaning those bottles takes a whole lot more water and chemicals than making those plastic bottles does.
Of course, a rising oil price might change that...
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Interesting)
Carbon neutrality or disguised corporate greed? You choose.
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:4, Insightful)
-1 plastic bag not given for free
+1 plastic bag bought from store to use as trash
------------
0 Total gain in plastic quantity used in the household. Carbon Offset == 0.
I don't care about paying for the bags. I was noting that the "green" argument is crap. Let the supermarkets tell me that free bags make a 200,000USD dent in their budget every month and due to diminishing margin and increased food price they can't afford to do it anymore. That's fine. I run a business and I can understand. Just don't try to tell me it's going to save the planet.
I did my very small part with energy saving bulbs, tap water thingy supposed to save water, sorting my garbage between paper, plastic, glass and the rest and setting up global switch so I don't have dozen of electronic equipment sucking power while idling. And I dutifully pay my premium on "fair trade" products even though I don't believe it is a good solution nor that the money really goes where it should.
Even my washing machine was almost twice as expensive because of the 5 start energy rating and water saving feature. That investment paid for itself though.
Finally I don't think that asking people to "go green" is any solution. Government should coerce companies and people to do "the right thing" through taxes and incentives.
I am one of the few here to be happy about the current gas price, I understand the pain it is causing worldwide especially in under-developed nations but I sincerly hope it will double again and increase even more the incentive for govs and private companies to start looking at alternatives. A little jump in price and even BMW announces electric cars... double it and we might get the few millions investment we need to get decent solar panel mass produced at competitive rate. It might even become a requirement in future zoning law who knows...
You want to save the planet? Use a bike and vote for officials who will actually enforce environmental policies.
Cheers
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:4, Interesting)
A billion bags in a country the size of Ireland. The US has 75 times the population meaning it could save 75 billion bags a year.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
All in the name of environment.
The cost saved has never been passed to customers. Worse yet, stores have been taking in even more profits, selling at amazing high price all kinds of shopping bags.
The cost is totally transfered to customers. There are other side affects too, as a result. People used to put their garbage in those plastic bags, tied them up before throwing them in the common garbage bin. Now, they just dump the garbage directly in, bringing flies and other insects, and having very stinky neighborhood.
We used to use those as garbage bags as well, and as we are only two, we don't have much garbage. The smallish grocery store bags are just perfect for daily garbage. Now we have to buy those larger black bags, which we can't fill in one day. Since we don't like stinky overnight garbage in house, we throw away a half empty bag, which is a waste. So, for our family of two, this policy does not seem to do any good to environment. Unless we are willing to keep garbage overnight, of course.
The so-called experts on the panel who decided this policy (in closed door, as all other policies in China) admitted they didn't consider any of the social and cost issues before they passed it. As if this is new to any one.
Re: (Score:2)
In some parts of the UK there are quite strict controls on what you can throw away in the trash and what must be recycled. Some cities have a policy that vegetable/fruit waste must be separated from meat waste, and that plastics, metals, glass, paper and cardboard must be separated too. If you separate your waste in this way it becomes much easier to contain / store and stop flies and smells.
Hopefully this will become a UK wide policy, and fines will be introduced for those that don't recycle this way.
Re: (Score:2)
We haven't gotten to that stage yet in Melborune, but now all the supermarkets have these shitty uber thin, weak, small plastic bags we get.
We use them in our garbage bins - all of them. But these smaller ones barely fit as much, so we need to use a lot more. Plus, don't get me started on carrying them from the supermarket. So many times I've had my milk bottles fall out the bottom of these really weak plastics which just fall apart as you're walking from the supermarket home, hell, even to the car!
So blood
Re:This won't have an effect in Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
haha, Budweiser is Belgium beer.
It's also the number one beer sold in the world.
debit or credit (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:debit or credit (Score:5, Funny)
So you show the cashier a card to show them which card you prefer to show them?
Huh?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
um, a debit card can be used like a debit card, or like a credit card.
From a use standpoint, the money still comes out the same.
Re:debit or credit (Score:5, Funny)
How about we also solve the "debit or credit" problem I have to deal with each time I visit the mini-mart?
Let me guess: I'll have to put a "credit" sticker on my credit cards, and a "debit" one on my debit cards.
If only there was a way to store this bit of data electronically, and somehow attach it to the card itself...
Re: (Score:2)
Oh! Oh! Let's patent it! Who's with me, let's pool our money and patent it and we'll be rich!
What? Don't look at me like that, it wouldn't be the first obvious patent granted despite prior art from times immemorial. This patent granted to IBM has to be the best example for this, I'm fairly sure some grocery store had that very same idea ages ago, they just didn't patent it because it's such a stupidly obvious idea that nobody besides a patent troll would dare bother a patent office with it.
Re:debit or credit (Score:4, Interesting)
There's a difference? In the UK we just insert the card and type our PIN. Before that we handed over our card, signed the receipt and watched as the cashier didn't compare signatures. No-one seems to care between credit and debit because Visa do both and don't make too much differentiation.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
This is obviously confusing some people.
in the UK we have one card from debit(Maestro) , one for credit (M/c, visa etc)
Other countries (I've found it in Australia) appear to be able to access several accounts from one card
Re: (Score:2)
In the UK we have many debit cards - VISA (Delta), VISA (Debit), Maestro, Switch, Electron etc, and many credit cards (Visa, Mastercard).
I've never heard of having more than one account on a card - it sounds really nasty, especially if you lose the card.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
My visa debit card clearly says Visa debit on it and people still ask me if it's a debit or credit card. This normally only happens in places that charge 2.5% for using a credit card though.
Re: (Score:2)
A credit card grants credit, a debit card directly registers to your bank account. If you don't say the store will prefer to use the debit system because its more security for them.
You're the one paying for a credit card though, so you may as well use it.
Re:debit or credit (Score:5, Informative)
the reason the merchant prefers debit is because it is a fixed per payment charge for them, but credit card payments are a fraction of the amount charged.
Re:debit or credit (Score:5, Funny)
And you can work around IBM's patent by tattooing your preference for paper or plastic on your forehead!
No they'll still have you "A computational device indicating preference". You'll have to pay royalties or forfeit your head.
Re: (Score:2)
If you have a card that's only one thing (debit or credit), then they can tell. If you have a combination credit/debit card (like I do), then the machine asks the cashier to make a choice. Then again, outside of Finland my combination card works as a credit card, so no choice.
Inconvenient Identification (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
OTOH, a large portion of the population do go for affinity cards. They
Re: (Score:2)
If its such a stupid idea I guess you don't care about the idea being patented.
Re: (Score:2)
When loyalty cards first came in (which I consider a bad thing from society's view, but that's a separate discussion), I had fun signing up to as many as I could with joke names and seeing what would get approved. Mostly they didn't, but I did get a Tesco's card for Penelope Pitstop. I didn't manage to get Mr. Hugh G. Rection, but perhaps I'll have another go. It was fun for a while.
The answer. (Score:5, Funny)
Q: does this pass the 'significant technical content' test?
First the long answer: Nope.
Now the short answer: No.
meanwhile abroad... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:meanwhile abroad... (Score:5, Funny)
Man, I'd stock up on the -$1 bags!
Re: (Score:2)
$1 per bag? It is closer to $0.5 in the shops I buy my groceries in.
"In the US, you guys are patenting your dependency on foreign oil."
70% of plastic bags are made using a by product of natural gas. The remaining 30% are made from naphtha (a by product in the distillation process of petroleum). I don't think that plastic bags are the main concern in relations to foreign oil dependency. Environmental concerns on the other hand are probably important.
Or you could ban them for the happiness of your nation;-)
ht [bbc.co.uk]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not terribly fond of Obama and Obamamania myself but keeping your tires properly inflated is good for your gas mileage. A lot of folks can't be bothered to spend the couple of moments it takes to check their tire pressure once or even twice a month. They pay for that by slightly lower gas mileage.
And just to remain somewhat on topic:
Primary Examiner: Lee; Michael G.
Assistant Examiner: Savusdiphol; Paultep
^^^^ These two guys are complete and utter morons. I bet they don't check their tire pressure regularly either and I know they aren't ever going to produce anything to ri
Re:meanwhile abroad... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, but we can afford it now that Obama has reduced American oil consumption by enlightening us all to the fact that we should check the air pressure in the tires of our vehicles for maximum efficiency. Screw Chavez, we don't need his oil anymore! We have Obama and his tire pressure gauges! We are saved! :)
It may sound funny but the truth is he's absolutely right. The whole point wasn't about tire pressure that's pro oil Republicans making fun of "conserving" energy like only hyppies and lefties conserve energy. The truth is you can save 3% by keeping tires properly inflated and drilling in the arctic reserve will add 1% to our oil in 20 years. The fastest easiest way to add more oil to the market is to cut back on usage. Absolute fact. Even the oil companies admit they can't get the new oil to market in less than five to ten years. This is about diverting attention from the real issue and that's the oil companies are trying to gain control of all the oil rights on government land and they want to right to drill anywhere no matter how sensitive. It's manipulative and most of the US is falling for it. Might want to check your facts before you laugh. Since you're on Slashdot I'm guessing you know how to use Google. Do a search and see what the truth is not what the oil company stooges are feeding you.
So, let's do nothing then... (Score:4, Insightful)
Even the oil companies admit they can't get the new oil to market in less than five to ten years.
So, should we not pursue alternative energy also? It takes time to bring to market also. Heck, even educating and convincing consumers to change their habits takes time. We should not pursue your plan by that logic also. Conservation is a good thing, but it won't replace long term production, unless we just stop growing. We have to get our energy from somewhere.
And 5 years is too long? Pfft! What, are you six? Is that forever to you? Who cares if it takes 50 years...think of the grandchildren! But, seriously, have you heard of the futures market, it speculatively bid on things that are, like, in the future. Part of the reason why oil is so high is because the speculation is that there won't be enough oil in the future to meet demand, thanks for that gift, pal.
The fastest easiest way to add more oil to the market is to cut back on usage.
What? huh? Who cares how much oil you are "adding to the market" if you are not using it! That's like saying, "Hey, everybody! We could add more food to the market if we add just stop eating! Hooray!" Please do not mistake me, I am not against conservation. Clearly in my last analogy, there are some people (not everybody) who could go with less food. They would have more personal wealth and there would be more food available for others, but this will not keep feeding people indefinitely. The world's population today could not have lived on the food supply of ages past, even if everybody was on strict rations.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think I can answer with a car analogy . . . (Score:3, Interesting)
What? huh? Who cares how much oil you are "adding to the market" if you are not using it! That's like saying, "Hey, everybody! We could add more food to the market if we add just stop eating! Hooray!" Please do not mistake me, I am not against conservation. Clearly in my last analogy, there are some people (not everybody) who could go with less food. They would have more personal wealth and there would be more food available for others, but this will not keep feeding people indefinitely. The world's population today could not have lived on the food supply of ages past, even if everybody was on strict rations.
I think you're suggesting that if you save a gallon of gas or a loaf of bread a week, that next week you'll have to make it up by consuming an extra to make up your personal deficit. And that would be true if you'd saved the gallon of gas my not making a trip this week that you have to make up for the next. But if you can reduce your car's "appetite" for fuel, so that it simply requires less fuel to do the same work, then you don't have that personal fuel deficit to make up.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
3% of what? 3% of total US oil consuption? Or 3% of gasoline consumption from passanger cars?
It's easy to toss around statistics.
First, who's to say how accurate that study was. And second, what percentage of _crude_ oil use in the US (diesel, kerosene, gasolene, trucking, byproducts like plastic, etc, etc) is due to passanger cars?
And lastly, what are the chances of everyone in the US getting together and checking their tire pressure systematically?
After all is said and done, that 3% would probably be a
Re:meanwhile abroad... (Score:4, Interesting)
You're playing a little fast and loose with your percentages there. You may well be able to save 3% of your gasoline by keeping your tires properly inflated, and drilling the arctic may add 1% to the crude oil supply. However, gasoline and crude oil are two different beasts. You have to account for how much of a given barrel of crude oil winds up in your gas tank, and how much gets used (and/or wasted) elsewhere.
And what if (Score:2)
I don't have a customer card? Do I get neither?
Re: (Score:2)
Be lucky if you get food. More seriously, I suspect that in a time not too distant you will have to have a card (security, terrorism, ease of processing, yadda
Not a new idea [wikipedia.org], though.
CC.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd like a card that says;
"I do not have a customer 'loyalty' card. No, I do not want a customer 'loyalty' card."
Would save me hours of wasted time in the average year. Can I patent this idea?
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I'd like a card that says;
"I do not have a customer 'loyalty' card. No, I do not want a customer 'loyalty' card."
Would save me hours of wasted time in the average year. Can I patent this idea?
Can I have one that says: "No, I do not want a customer 'loyalty' card. I'd love a customer 'loyalty' blowjob though."?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What if the store had a loyalty card that they would be required to present if they wanted my custom?
preferences vary (Score:2)
I change my preference based on whether I need more plastic bags for small trash bins. Sometimes it is nice to have a paper bag which generally takes a regular shape in the trunk for efficient loading. For small loads plastic is great with the hooks in the lid of the trunk.
Generally we bring our own bags (but sometimes they're in the other car). It is nice that some places give a discount. Aldi's charges for bags you don't bring, Beuhler's gives a discount for each bag you bring. However, Marc's in NE
Actually Yes. (Score:2, Insightful)
While in reality it may seem too simple and even stupid for some, the fact that none of us thought of it before and had implemented it shows it as unique.
The process itself is simple: Affix a sticker (much like any other sticker), and next time the cashier needs to only scan it instead of asking.
Morally objectionable: I don't think so. Not commonly used. Although a bit dumb.
Legally Valid: Yes.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
My guess as to why somebody hasn't thought of this before? because I expect my cashier to be capable of asking a simple question and I don't see that it saves valuable time. IBM would be better off coming up with a more efficient way of reducing queues than this kind of crap.
Story after story here on /. we've di
This was actually granted??? (Score:2, Insightful)
I can't decide who I think less of, the person that thought to file this or the person that actually granted it...
So what is the invention??? (Score:5, Interesting)
Databases have been known for a few years now. Customer identification cards as well. So now you can patent specific pieces of information when tied to the identification?
Maybe I'm stupid but it seems to me that the system might be in need revision. Perhaps IBM was trying to make a point?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I never really hear what is wrong with plastic... (Score:5, Interesting)
For all the anti plastic bag talk, I've never really heard any reasons WHY they are so bad. The common one you get from people is either they get into the water and damager wild life, or they don't bio-degrade.
If its damage, then if you take care to dispose, how is it an issue?
If its bio-degrade, I dont get that either. They arent the largest things around. Is it a significant issue? Things barely degrade in landfills anyhow, they are anaerobic.
Maybe these days its oil based.. which maybe somehow slightly valid.. but its nothing compared to petrol. Also, anti-plastic has been around so long it cant be that. So maybe someone can inform me!
While there is probably a good answer(s) ill have shot back at me, I'm still going to be annoyed that its not well conveyed onto consumers WHY this is bad. I feel too much like I'm in 1984 if I just have to know things are bad because everyone says so. Feels like its some minor issue that gets so much press yet if everyone stopped using them it wouldn't help anything at all.. producing huge amounts of paper bags would be a nightmare and is everyone using reusable going to save us all? Most people seem to slack off once they feel they are "doing their bit" by not using plastic bags.. even if they don't know anything about the issues involved.
Re:I never really hear what is wrong with plastic. (Score:5, Insightful)
The common one you get from people is either they get into the water and damager wild life, or they don't bio-degrade.
correct.
If its damage, then if you take care to dispose, how is it an issue?
if they're not biodegradable, then how do you dispose of the millions of bags that are thrown in the trash every day? where do you put them?
If its bio-degrade, I dont get that either. They arent the largest things around. Is it a significant issue?
you under-estimate the number of plastic bags thrown away each day. They aren't only used in supermarkets for your groceries. Practically every store uses them (clothing, electronics, books, everything). There is also plastic packaging. Plastic bags ARE a HUGE problem.
Re: (Score:2)
Because they're more expensive. Plus they are only bio-degradable in relative terms (It can still take many years), and the materials they degrade into can also be harmful to the environment.
And that's assuming they are produced in an environmentally sound way. That doesn't have to be the case.
They're definatly not the best solution to the problem of plastic bags.
Re:I never really hear what is wrong with plastic. (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe stuff like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch [wikipedia.org]
Re:I never really hear what is wrong with plastic. (Score:4, Interesting)
If its damage, then if you take care to dispose, how is it an issue?
Because of their size & weight, plastic bags escape normal disposal options easily. Look around you. Most of the trash I see on the streets is plastic bags.
You probably use thousands of plastic bags every year. Are you so confident of your disposal methods that none of them entered a waterway?
if its bio-degrade, I dont get that either. They arent the largest things around. Is it a significant issue?
1) Paper bags recycle more readily than plastic.
2) You could just reuse a sturdy bag and that way, not contribute to landfill with the containers you use to take home your shopping at all.
Re:I never really hear what is wrong with plastic. (Score:2, Insightful)
Throw-away products, plastic or paper bags, disposable cameras, packaging materials, whatever, are wasteful, in principle. It costs energy to produce them and to dispose of them. If a long lasting alternative is available, it is almost always better. Lasting products can often be fixed if they are broken, and if you don't need them anymore, you can give them away or sell them.
how is it an issue? (Score:3, Insightful)
For every person who "takes care to dispose" there's six more who don't.
That's an issue.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I have several bags that I use for shopping, including: a messenger bag and a canvas tote (which I also use for carrying things generally) and three insulated bags specifically used for grocery shopping. I leave the grocery bags in the car so they are always ready. These bags are better beca
Get yourself a decent shopping bag.... (Score:2)
I have a voluminous canvas bag which I take with me when I go shopping. How hard is that?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The size of his bag(fnarr!) is irrelevant, since you wouldn't be able to carry three trolleyloads in any kind of bags - recycleable, reusable or oxygen free carbon fibre with brass knobs on.
If I go to the supermarket on foot, I take a rucksack. If I go by car I use stackable/nestable crates which I fill at the checkout and take straight from the trunk into the house. Perhaps this only works for a
Re: (Score:2)
The point with these "enviro" bags are that their robust and can be used for months or even years, compare that to how many disposable plastic bags you would use in that time period...
In my local supermarket they offer cloth bags for around £2 and will replace them for free, the bags are biodegradable and will mulch quite happily in compost. Sure if the bags they're offering as alternatives really aren't that green then you should still consider my first argument, their use of flimsy bags are subtle h
Paper or plastic? (Score:2)
Both. A sticker on a card is paper on plastic. Cool.
Not an invention (Score:3, Insightful)
I believe prior art exists for the invention of storing and retrieving user preferences.
Re: (Score:2)
I believe it's called the "Brain" and has prior art (in every mammal and most advanced animals) dating back many millions of years.
Hang on, are people missing the point? (Score:4, Interesting)
IBM have been patenting really really stupidly simple and obvious inventions for quite a while now. It seems that every month /. reports on an IBMer being granted a patent on something like stickers on credit cards, or on/off switches, or a great new way of peeling an orange.
Here's what I think: you've got IBM, a very wealthy company with a very strong brand and a good reputation, and a lot of clever people. Why not solicit crazy-but-patentable ideas from IBMers, drop the small (to IBM) amount of cash on patenting it, and then have a portfolio of crazy stuff. Then when you run into problems with other patents you can pull out a patent on putting a sticker on a bank card and say "Well, you let that through..."
I reckon they're gearing up to give the US patent system an almighty rattling.
Re: (Score:2)
And like most companies they are patenting as much as possible that they use within their Point of Sale systems (or wherever else). Primarily this is a defence mechanism because the patent system is so broken - if they don't patent it they risk someone else suing them later.
way to pick the low-hanging fruit IBM (Score:2)
Here's a scenario I often run into:
I'm checking out at the store, and put my reusable bag in front of my items or say, "hi I brought a bag with me today"
Often, the cashier will fail to break out of repetitive-task-robot mode and automatically start loading the plastic bag.
Other times, they'll put things in the bag so stupidly that they'll then proceed to load up items in a plastic bag that would have fit just fine in the cloth bag.
Or they'll put bagged items in a bag. I've had the following things put into
What about those for whom it depends... (Score:4, Interesting)
Can the IBM system store such a complex decision process?
Hardly an invention (Score:2)
When I started replying I was going to have the usual rant about this being a stupidly tiny "invention" or probably not even an invention at all as it's so simple. I was going to compare it to the invention of the steam engine or the television or some other complex device but it occured to me that I couldn't think of a single complex device that was a single invention.
I think every single complex device that we use is built up of several (perhaps hundreds or even thousands) of tiny increments each one of w
Why not? (Score:3, Insightful)
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!..... (Score:2)
Will somebody *PLEASE* publicly humiliate the shitwit patent examiners that approved this garbage?
Lately, I've been giving serious thought to starting a website just to put these asshats up for the public humiliation and shaming that they deserve!
The shitwits responsible:
Primary Examiner: Lee; Michael G.
Assistant Examiner: Savusdiphol; Paultep
Somebody, PLEASE, start giving these half-assed clerks the humilitation they so deserve!
Heh (Score:2)
Originally I thought that when they asked "paper or plastic" they wanted to know if I wanted to pay with paper notes or a plastic credit card. And then I was confused in Australia because their notes *are* made of plastic.
Life gets so much more interesting when English is not your native language :-)
Annoying communications (Score:2)
'unnecessary inconvenience for both the customer and the cashier'
Because the last thing we should be doing is communicating with each other.
Patents are the Soviet chandaliers of innovation (Score:3, Interesting)
All this money that is being spent pursuing retarded patents like this is classified as R&D spending. It is seen as successful R&D spending because it produces patents (a handy metric for innovation) and money. The question of quality, of whether it actually corresponds to real technological advance, seems to be irrelevant to most people in industry and high office.
The US, seeing itself as a high tech economy, is measuring inputs (R&D money) and gross outputs (patents and the money they produce) and patting itself on the back for the resulting 'growth' (innovation), despite the fact you are producing little or none.
Being completely unaware of the true state of your economy is a dangerous place to be.
Every Breath You Take (Score:2)
Now, however, I'm having second thoughts.
What supermarkets have paper bags? (Score:2)
In Sweden, you pick the type of bag yourself (Score:4, Interesting)
Here in Sweden, you pick the type of bag yourself and place it on the conveyor belt along with the groceries. (Assuming of course that you didn't bring your own bags or other suitable container with you.)
And then you pack yourself the groceries into the bags.
A plastic bag costs in the ballpark of 25c (US) and a paper bag about 50c (US).
Advantages of the IBM system (Score:3, Interesting)
Is that, by associating you with your bag selection, the store can actually better know in advance how many bags it needs to buy. If you did bring your bags, the store would know it, and could then send you stuff to thank you for your environmental savvy, and then based on data mining, show you some of the promotional items you might be interested.
We all laugh at the IBM Patent, but they are going to make a ton of money off of it.