Israel Moves Toward a National Biometric Database 476
An anonymous reader writes "Israeli's government has approved the creation of a biometric database which would contain fingerprints and facial photos of all Israeli citizens. If the bill becomes law — and it is at an early stage — the biometric information of each citizen would be embedded in their passport and national ID card. Israeli citizens would be required by law to submit to biometric testing upon request by government employees, soldiers, and policemen, so that their biometric info can be compared to the info embedded in their ID card / passport. The declared purpose of the bill is to combat forgery of passports and ID cards, and also to aid identification 'in cases of a mass disaster.' The bill was approved over objections from civil rights groups and the Israeli Bar. The article notes that no other democratic country has a comprehensive biometric database of all citizens."
Freedom! (Score:1, Interesting)
Sounds more insidious than some of the neighboring countries we decry as anti-freedom.
I wonder how many of my tax dollars are being used by their government to subjugate their people? I don't like this at all, not for any nation.
Good for them (Score:0, Interesting)
This will improve their security. And before all of you Ben Franklin quoters start yammering, the key word Ben Franklin used was "essential." Biometric databases don't infringe on essential liberties. If you doubt this, then look it up in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Re:Freedom! (Score:2, Interesting)
I wonder how many of my tax dollars are being used
Many. The Israeli security industry benefits enormously from Western spending ; they are respected and renowned as the people with the most experience of dealing with terrorism.
Someone with thicker tinfoil on their hat might suspect that this was a prototype project, pushed through by rich Israeli security industry lobbyists keen to prove their ability for the contracts for Western nations. Someone with double-layered tinfoil might even believe that they already have a contract and this is just the testing phase...
Re:MARK OF THE BEAST (Score:3, Interesting)
Almost (Score:3, Interesting)
In fact all Israeli identity cards till recently had to mention the ethnic/religious group. I shouldn't say "since the beginning" but at least it has been like that for a long time.
It is not possible to be "just an israeli".
I am an Israeli (Score:5, Interesting)
If you don't believe me, just read the news stories, and the bios [wikipedia.org] of the kidnapped [wikipedia.org] soldiers. The front lines are CEOs, lawyers, scientists, mathematicians, accountants and what not. The middle+ class are the people that go to war. The most leftist and liberal leaders were always the best generals - Rabin (Oslo) , Barak (pulled out of Lebanon), and in his last years, Ariel Sharon who pulled out of Gaza. And most importantly, there is not a single religious general, and Israel never had a religious leader.
I design complex real-time control systems (Mostly based on PIC/NEC/Toshiba ), and like any Israeli, for 28 days a year, I become a soldier. Despite what you may or may not understand about our society, chances are that there is plenty of holes in your understanding how this microscopic 5 million people country works.
But point is, nobody here trusts the government, the current government is extremely weak, and on the verge of being replaced. This thing will not pass. Most people here read 1984 =).
Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (Score:4, Interesting)
They are the ones who will suffer.
I'll be kind of gutted if you think I'm being anti-semitic, because I kinda pride myself on being 'right on' about shit in general. No- this is nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, and everything to do with it being a colony. Every colony that ever existed bullied the aborigines to a greater or lesser extent.
Not to get too pop-psychological, but there's also an element of 'the abused becoming the abuser' about Israel.
Re:It's just one worrying trend (Score:4, Interesting)
Since this database is used for collecting data on Israeli citizens it is useless against Palestinians, since they are not citizens of Israel, nor of any other country.
This is useful only against criminals, Israeli Arabs (who seldom serve in the army, and therfore didn't get their photo and finger-prints taken already), and as you mentioned, most useful against political resistance. Keeping the Israeli populace ignorant of the atrocities Israel performs takes huge amounts of propaganda, censureship and such tactics. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if this is designed to track political ("extreme-left", "bleeding hearts", "arab-lovers") dissidents as well as other threats.
Full disclosure - I am Israeli.
Oh fuck. I just shot myself in the foot, didn't I?
Re:Freedom! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (Score:2, Interesting)
Do you have to be an antisemite to disagree with the politics of Israel?
Unfortunately, that's what it comes down to: as the excuse is it's some "hate crime" to disagree with Zionism, as Zionism "is the state of Israel" (or whatever excuse to keep this 1000 year war alive).
So if you post something about how Zionists even treat fellow Jews - http://web.israelinsider.com/views/3998.htm [israelinsider.com] -- that's a crime against their identity and State, and = anti-semite to them.
Frankly, I don't care about the label, because it's crazier to justify wanton killing for killing sake.
Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (Score:3, Interesting)
I think the reason is because the people there went directly from being oppressed to doing the opressing. They should know better.
Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (Score:1, Interesting)
Free pass? Israel is quietly the most prolific violator of UN resolutions, violating more than all other Middle Eastern nations combined.
That is because the large number of Arab/Muslim nations at the UN vote down any criticism of any Middle Eastern nation aside from Israel.
You seem to not know that there are many kinds of UN resolutions. The resolutions that Israel violates are General Assembly resolutions (and other minor bodies). In international law, these resolutions are equivalent of library fines (ie meaningless). The large number of Arab/Muslim dictatorships would vote that the world was flat if there was some way they could blame Israel for it.
The resolutions that matter are Security Council resolutions. These are the resolutions that can authorize the use of force (such as expelling Iraq from Kuwait).
There are many other UN resolutions which the US vetoed on Israel's behalf.
Vetoes only apply at the Security Council. You are also ignoring the many Security Council resolutions vetoed by the Russians & Chinese on behalf of their Arab/Muslim client states.
Oh, and Iraq didn't get to do what it pleased. It tried trading oil in Euros and that got it a set of trumped up WMD accusations and an invasion.
The UN Security Council passed a resolution authorizing the use of force (see above), which means not only the tacit approval of USA, UK, France, Russia & China, but a majority of the Security Council (which has 10 other rotating members).
Iran doesn't seem to be free of criticism either.
As a sovereign nation, Iran signed the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and agreed to its terms. Iran didn't have to do that. Having signed, Iran has deliberately, repeatedly violated the NPT. Why would a country do that? There is only one reason: to build a nuclear bomb. Violating the NPT can have very serious consequences (see Security Council resolutions, above).
You might respond that Israel has a number of nuclear bombs. However, Israel (and many other nations) never signed the NPT and is not bound by it.
Don't get me started on human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran. The entire country is a shithole on so many levels.
Criticism of Israel != antisemitism. I am a Muslim. I am a vehement critic of Israel's politics. I am also friends with many Jewish people, who I find to be very warm, friendly and pleasant people.
While it is possible to criticize the policies of Israel without being antisemitic (and you might be one of these people), the vast majority of the critics of Israel criticize Israel because they hate jews.
Here's an example. A black man is driving 10 mph over the speed limit, gets pulled over by a cop, and is given a ticket. Is this a racist act? The driver was speeding - doesn't sound racist to me. However, day after day, this cop only pulls over black drivers to give them speeding tickets. The cop ignores white drivers who travel 50 or 100 mph over the speed limit.
Any reasonable person would say the cop is not actually concerned about speeding or traffic safety, and is only using that as an excuse to cover up his hatred of black people.
Much like many critics of Israel. Some people criticize Israel for its policies towards the Palestinians. But if these critics are genuinely concerned about human rights and the plight of the Palestinians, you would expect the critics would also criticize countries like Lebanon or Kuwait, who treat Palestinians far far worse, not to mention far worse abuses around the world. And yet (almost all) the critics of Israel are silent.
In fact, many of my Jewish friends' biggest problem with Israel is that they carry out their politics in the name of Judaism.
So, how do you feel about those who carry out politics in the name of Islam? How do you feel about those who carry out violence in the name of Islam?
Re:I am an Israeli (Score:1, Interesting)
how can you explain giving a twelfth of your life away to an organisation obsessed with harassing, repressing, dividing, locking in, shutting out, abusing and killing people for the sole reason that they lived in your country before your parents/grand-parents arrived and drove them off their land?
Bullshit. The prime reason is that in the late 1940s the Arabs refused the UN partition plan which would have created two states, one arab and one israeli, with international status for jerusalem (hey, that sounds familiar, I heard it recently), and declared war. That war has not yet ended.
Looking at the way the IDF operates, I see the sole purpose of its actions in the conquered territories as to make the inhabitants' lives as painful and difficult as possible.
You gotta be kidding. The IDF operates to protect the citizens of Israel from large numbers of arabs who wake up every morning and say how can I kill jews today?
When violent attacks by Palestinians are rare (like 1994-1999), the IDF are very relaxed and the West Bank/Gaza economy flourished. When attacks are common, things tighten up. It is entirely determined by the rate of violent attacks.
I recall recently when Hamas sent 6000 rockets randomly into Israel, Israel was criticized for a disproportionate response when it responded with a few airstrikes.
The proportionate response would have been to send 6000 rockets randomly into Gaza. But the IDF didn't do that, since that would cause the deaths of too many civilians.
Is the boogie-man of terrorism that intimidating?
Violent attacks by Arabs is not the bogeyman, they are all too real. That is what you call a fact.
Re:I am an Israeli (Score:1, Interesting)
The palestinians have accepted a two-state solution (Oslo Accords) and so have the arab nations (Arab Peace Initiative). What happened in the 40's is not that relevant, because we cannot change the past. We can choose to take steps towards peace today and in the future.
Somewhat correct. The Oslo accords have many milestones along the path to Palestinian statehood, such as the ending of violent attacks on Israeli civilians. This hasn't happened.
According to Israel, it's acceptable to murder citizens that are in the vicinity of Hezbollah or Hamas members, when the rockets the IDF uses have limited accuracy.
Civilian casualties are an unavoidable part of armed conflict. However, the IDF often stands down when too many civilian casualties would occur. On the other hand, the goal of Hamas is to cause as many civilian casualties as possible. See the difference?
I think that pretty much every town in Israel will have (reserve) soldiers living there, so the attacks are on military targets (who 'hide' among civilians, to use the israeli jargon).
Israeli soldiers do not hide among civilians. They are uniformed, clearly identifiable and subject to command & control by the government. Compare & contrast with Hamas.
Incidentally, a reserve soldier who isn't on active duty is legally a civilian under international law.
Look up the number of palestinian civilians that are killed every year vs the number of israeli civilians and then get back to me on 'proportionality.'
I don't have to, that study has already been done [eretzyisroel.org].
Palestinians are far, far more likely to kill women, noncombatants and people older than 45.
That's proportionality for you. The IDF tries very hard to avoid killing civilians, but sometimes they occur. Hamas tries very hard to kill civilians.