805289
story
Comments: 133 +- Your Rights Online: China Does U-Turn, Lifts Ban On Websites on Saturday August 02 2008, @01:49PM
Posted
by
kdawson
on Saturday August 02 2008, @01:49PM
from the by-some-definitions-of-complete dept.
from the by-some-definitions-of-complete dept.
background: url(//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/topiccensorship.gif); width:44px; height:55px;
censorship
krou sends in a Guardian (UK) article reporting that overnight talks with the International Olympic Committee have resulted in the Chinese government lifting a ban on websites such as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the BBC Chinese language service "in Beijing, Shanghai and possibly further afield." Websites with information on the Falun Gong, Chinese dissidents, the Tibetan government in exile, and the 1989 military crackdown on the Tiananmen Square protests are still inaccessible. (We've been discussing Chinese Olympic censorship right along.) Quoting: "A spokesman for Amnesty International said: 'It's good news that our site has been unblocked in Olympic venues and perhaps elsewhere in Beijing, but it is still a long way from the "complete media freedom" promised. It seems public outrage has succeeded where the IOC's "quiet diplomacy" had failed.' Chinese engineers quoted in an article in the Atlantic Monthly said they had been told to prepare to unblock access for a list of specific internet protocol addresses to used by foreign visitors. But Andrew Lih, a new media author in Beijing, said it seemed the authorities might have simply decided it was easier to lift blocks for everyone. 'It's possible [to block individual locations] but would be very complicated,' he said."
Related Stories
An exotic journey in downtown Newark is in your future.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.
U-Turn? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's no U-turn. At best, it's a hard left.
Re:U-Turn? (Score:5, Funny)
That's no U-turn. At best, it's a hard left.
So that's more like a L-turn then?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:U-Turn? (Score:4, Funny)
What do you mean?
We've always been at war with the Eurasians.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Thank you for admitting that China is a rightwing paradise, the kind everyone is heading for by letting corporate mafiosos control our countries.
And for admitting that freedom is "left" of that kind of fascism on the political spectrum.
Anonymous Cowards have their uses, even if they don't realize it.
Re: (Score:2)
So do Docs. But posting isn't one of them.
What better way? (Score:5, Insightful)
What better way to nail subversives ?
Let them convict themselves by allowing that whicvh is is deemed illegal in China ?
The Historical approach..
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
(2) Profit!
(2) Remember which of your own citizens accessed dissedent material,keep tabs on 'em.
(3) After the Olympics leaves China consult the list of new dissidents.
(4) Have them quietly made into unpersons.
Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Didn't they say they were going to spy on visitors' traffic too? Nothing about that here, maybe they're hoping we'll forget.
If I was going, I'd take tor [torproject.org] with me on my laptop. Also I'd buy a laptop first.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Why Tor? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Chinese firewall doesn't block encrypted traffic. A far superior solution is to simply VPN to somewhere. That's what I do when traveling if I am in any location that I don't completely trust (airport or hotel network for example). I SSH to a server I have at home and tunnel traffic through the connection. It is then as though I was surfing at my house.
Parent
Re:Why Tor? (Score:4, Informative)
I use XP. I've used a VPN connection (using it as my default gateway) from Shanghai to Houston. But browsing the web is much faster through a strait RDP session back to my desktop.
You would think screen refreshes would take more bandwidth then redirecting HTTP requests, but that doesn't seem to be the case in my experience.
Parent
You really think China can break AES? (Score:3, Informative)
That's what SSH (and most VPNs) use. It is the most tested cryptosystem in history. It has been signed off on by, well, everyone pretty much in the crypto field. After years of concerted effort, still no way to break it has been found.
Now if you want to life in AFDB land, go right ahead. However it seems extremely unlikely that anyone, much less the Chinese government, can break AES. As such, a VPN is a good solution.
Re: (Score:2)
it seems extremely unlikely that anyone, much less the Chinese government, can break AES.
Why the "much less"? I would put China in the top 5 of countries I would expect to have the ability and desire to have a good go at breaking an algorithm.
Re:You really think China can break AES? (Score:4, Insightful)
Because they are new to the cryptography game and don't have the computing resources of many other countries. It seems extremely unlikely that even the NSA can break AES (given that they've certified it for top secret data) and when it comes to crypto, they are the best in the business. They are to information espionage what the KGB was to physical espionage. If I'd bet on anyone being able to figure out how to break a cryptosystem without anyone else knowing, the NSA would be my bet.
Regardless, my primary point is I find it extremely unlikely AES has been broken. It is an open algorithm that underwent an exceedingly rigorous selection process. Because of that, it was scrutinized. Once it was selected and made the official AES standard, it then underwent even more. As I said, it's the most tested cryptosystem out there. Thus far, it has held up wonderfully. So basically for a break to happen, there'd have to be a new field of math developed that would allow for some new way of attacking it. That seems very unlikely to happen, and I find it unlikely the MSS have already done so.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, these days raw computing power is only one way of breaking crypto. In fact, I'd say that it would be the tool of last resort. Much more common is looking for mathematical flaws in the algorithms. And when it comes to raw talent in mathematics, I'd put China up there at the top of the heap with the NSA.
Remember that Chinese researchers are the ones that discovered collision weaknesses in MD
I confirm it! (Score:5, Funny)
More Accurately (Score:5, Informative)
China Does U-Turn, Lifts Ban On Certain Websites
Title is way too optimistic.
Re:More Accurately (Score:4, Informative)
China Does U-Turn, Lifts Ban On Certain Websites
Title is way too optimistic.
Totally agree. As an expat Beijing resident with press connections the story moves by the day. Bottom line is that while generally open at the moment (i.e. in the Olympic press center) there are still sites that are blocked including a China blog at a major US news outlet. The Chinese generally allow VPN but if you go to certain sites you will still be stopped. Free proxy servers are tissue paper and generally not useful. The authorities, from observation and experience, can and do target individual computers. The Chinese are getting cleverer and more subtle at "shaping" the internet landscape and where you can go. Overall bottom line is that whatever little concessions might be made to the press center users the control of internet access will get worse not better. People who give credit to the Chinese for the access they have allowed are living in lalaland. The Chinese are grudging every concession and reneging whenever they can.
Parent
Facts instead of speculation (Score:4, Informative)
I configured Tor to use a Chinese exit node [quantenblog.net]. Here are my results:
- Chinese Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]: accessible (used to be blocked)
- BBC Chinese (via bbcchinese.com) [bbcchinese.com]: blocked
- BBC Chinese (via direct URL) [bbc.co.uk]: accessible
- Article on Tibet in English Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]: accessible (used to be blocked)
- Human Rights in China [hrichina.org]: blocked
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Nyoro~n :(
...waits for negative moderation...
Public outrage trumps diplomacy? (Score:2, Insightful)
You mean people actually doing something had more effect than other people talking about doing something? Color me shocked.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
China's Olympic ambitions falter with protests
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080802/ap_on_re_as/china_battered_hopes [yahoo.com]
said Wu Jiaxiang, a former government researcher and now a blogger and businessman. "We care less about human rights than other countries and more about sovereignty. That's bound to create an awkward feeling among other countries."
They just don't get it, do they...
Re: (Score:2)
Don't you think for a second that the communist party made sure no one who didn't perfectly toe the party line would be interviewed???
Unless there is **TOTAL** freedom of speech, not a single statement by anyone in China can be trusted.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I can't imagine any worse torture than that. Your child was killed by a substandard building, put up by a corrupt government. And every month, you get a cash payment, a pension that reminds you of that fact. And it reminds you that instea
Makes little difference (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm looking forward to the Olympic Games in North Korea 2012. Apparently, Kim Jong Il is expected to beat 52 world records.
Re:Makes little difference (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
How to Lift a Ban For Commies (Score:3, Insightful)
2) Unban 3 of them
3) Claim the ban is lifted, as the other sites are only inaccessible
4) Fail!!!
Note: for those not familiar with the pun - For Dummies [wikipedia.org]
Tempest in a teapot (Score:5, Interesting)
Can everybody swallow the blue pill? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm surprised none of the stories about this mention how easy it is to VPN out of China and thus bypass any blocks they throw up.
The problem is that ordinary citizens in China doesn't know what happen on Tiananmen Square in 1989. Do you seriously expect the average Chinese citizen to be able to get VPN out og China, and risk his/her life/career on it because the sites are illegal.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'm surprised none of the stories about this mention how easy it is to VPN out of China and thus bypass any blocks they throw up.
The problem is that ordinary citizens in China doesn't know what happen on Tiananmen Square in 1989. Do you seriously expect the average Chinese citizen to be able to get VPN out og China, and risk his/her life/career on it because the sites are illegal.
The ordinary citizens in China (at least those over 20) know quite well what happened on Tiananmen in 1989,just talk to any Chinese cab driver.
Most Chinese don't think it has much relevance to today's business. While they agree the government in 1989 committed horrible crimes, hell it is two decades ago and both China and Chinese government has changed a lot [amazon.com]. Most of Chinese are happy with the current government [yahoo.com].
As for Tiananmen square most think it will resolve over time . Even a lot of 1989 demo
wish I have mod points (Score:2)
+1 on Informative
When I lived in China from 2003-06, I felt that every social issue there is so intrigue and inter-related that there's simply no solution than to wait out for population to shrink and grow economically prosperous on average. People I talked to about this issue generally have contradictory feelings -- on one hand they like the idea of "democracy" -- on the other they don't think it is the solution for China; they could point out failed examples like Mexico, India, Russia (under Yeltsin,) Phi
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Democracy is absolutely dependent on an educated populace. When people are illiterate and have no access to balanced information that shows both the good points and the bad points, it is totally illusory to think that Democracy may flourish.
Agree with this.
The Philippines have been bludgeoned for three centuries by the spanish into becoming a scatholic country
not quite agree with this. at most, just a small excuse. you already provided most of the reason for the Philippines in your first paragraph.
Re: (Score:2)
Probably not. Which makes it easier to tag and pay even closer attempt to those that *do* use VPN's
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sometimes the "little stories" are probably not newsworthy as they are common occurrence.
I admit I haven't heard about the "little things" you mentioned, but regarding the one year imprisonment without trial, I think it's called "re-education through labour", and it's a weird kind of "administrative sanction" which happens always, so it wouldn't be much news to the Chinese people.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature.
The Dude... (Score:2)
The Dude: Walter, the chinaman who peed on my rug, I can't go give him a bill, so what the fuck are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: What the fuck are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
Re: (Score:2)
iptables -A OUTPUT -s x.x.x.x/x -d x.x.x.x/x -j DROP
The above seems to work just fine, granted this is iptables but I would be very disappointed in CISCO if their switches/routers/firewalls couldn't support something as simple this. Makes me wonder if 'engineers' are just making up the difficulty level because they too are tired of this...
consistent inconsistencies (Score:2)
At least they are being consistent about being inconsistent.
IOC Negotiation Strategy 1a (Score:2)
Whenever it faces a country big enough, strong enough or mean enough to stand up to it, the brave men of the IOC have a standard negotiation strategy that can best be summed up as "I'll blow you now. You can pay me back later."
To absolutely nobody's surprise, the IOC is still waiting for its first oral experience that doesn't involve gargling with 3 gallons of Listerine afterward.
Sure, The Leopard Can Change it Spots (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is some temporary window dressing important? (Score:2)
And the public outrage won't be any more evident than it was before. It's only one billion or so PRC citizens being kept in the dark, not several hundred reporters.
Pressure Works (Score:2)
This small advance for freedom (for some privileged people) in a tiny sector of China (in Beijing) for a brief, extraordinary period (while the whole world is watching) is better than nothing. And it's the result of pressure on China's mafia government by people who expect freedom, and won't accept less. Not even in a tiny sector for a brief, extraordinary period.
This tiny victory might not last long at all. But it does prove that there's at least one way it can be done.
Now the harder part is finding the ot
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If you don't see the connection between the Olympics and politics, then I'd be surprised if you had ever paid attention to the Olympics at all.