PC Repair In Texas Now Requires a PI License 729
JohnnyNapalm writes "In some shocking news out of Texas, PC repair will now require a PI License. Surely this stands to have a substantial impact on small repair shops around the state if upheld. Never fear, however, as the first counter-suit has already been filed."
I'm at a loss for words... (Score:2, Interesting)
so like-- searching for spyware? (Score:4, Interesting)
especially spyware with names like
resume.doc.com
Re:I don't think the report is accurate (Score:5, Interesting)
I know this is /. and reading the article is bad form, but from the article:
Imagine that doing a "find . -name file.jpg" or similar might be considered an "investigation".
Re:But it's okay to shoot robbers in the back ther (Score:5, Interesting)
When you see a couple of strangers breaking the window on a neighbor's house and climbing in, that's a pretty well-founded belief.
Running when someone points a gun at you and tells you to freeze is also pretty damned stupid. If you believe the police officer who was an eyewitness, the folks in question ran at such a trajectory as to be closer to the neighbor with the gun when they were shot than they were when he told them to freeze -- which is exceptionally stupid, as it gives said party with the gun grounds to be legitimately afraid for their life, and thus the ability to shoot. If you're going to run away from the person with the gun who told you to freeze -- which is a bad idea to start with -- you want to run unambiguously away, not towards and then turn.
I don't fault the grand jury for deciding not to prosecute; I would have gone the same way.
So ridiculous (Score:2, Interesting)
From TFA:
"In order to obtain said license, technicians must receive a criminal justice degree or participate in a three-year apprenticeship. Those shops that refuse to participate will be forced to shut down. Violators of the new law can be hit with a $4,000 dollar fine and up to a year in jail, penalties that apply to customers who seek out their services."
How does that make any sense? I used to work in help desk, and I would be asked to "snoop" data when looking for viruses ALL THE TIME. Although the above poster, who argued that he can't be a cop because of the lack of credentials, it's completely different from that.
Sure, you should have a license, but make that some variant of the CISSP (probably associate). At least that would be beneficial to the person.
PI license seems like OVERKILL to the max on this issue. 3 years of apprenticeship? Criminal justice degree? Who in the computer industry would graduate with a criminal justice degree? Probably not too many...........
I guess this will be good for the people in the industry in Texas, as the supply of techs will become lower therefore the demand will raise...... higher incomes for those techs who can hack it.
Governments need much better knowledge about technology so they don't do stupid things like this, maybe have an official governmental position.....
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:5, Interesting)
In Ontario this is actually the the stance taken. They have set up a telehealth phoneline staffed by nurses and other qualified people so that people don't go down to the emergency room, or run to the doctor every time you have a rash or a cough. We've used their services quite a few times, and the answers they give are quite good. It's really nice to have a nice way to get quick qualified answers to health questions.
This law is to prevent me from perv catching (Score:2, Interesting)
First thing I do on any computer I work on in California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Idaho or New Mexico is do a search for Child Porn [arstechnica.com] with keywords and a hash check. Hash check works because some of the child porn has been out there since it was just NNTP and email and the particular images are very easy to find. If you can help build a better perv trap for me and others like me, please do I am not a programmer. Over 20 lowlifes turned into the police and feds including a local bank manager, a coffee shop owner and a HS physics teacher. I hope to turn in many more. Have any of y'all done this when you found child porn working in IT, or did you turn a blind eye?
Read the Law (Score:5, Interesting)
From what I can tell, the lawsuit is preemptive. No one has been charged. It was intended to be enforced against repair shops that do actual investigations that a PI would be doing if it wasn't on a computer (tracking usage, seeing what people were up to). However, the law was vague enough in some aspects that it could cover much more than was apparently intended, and the lawsuit is to determine what is and is not allowed under the law, and overturn any parts that are onerous enough to violate the state or US constitutions. The law did not say "all repair shops must have PI licenses." The people enforcing the law didn't say that either. However, if they are in the "security industry" or if they perform an "investigation" (and I couldn't find specific definitions of those) then they would need to be licensed.
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:3, Interesting)
Relevance? Perhaps EMS Techs should have Class C or emergency vehicle drivers licenses? Now of course, EMTs who are ambulance drivers... well, that is a different story.
You see, unless I am reading all the links wrong, technicians (in general) will not be required to get a PI license. Technicians who do disk forensics will be required to do so... totally different thing - as my example simplifies for those who didnt bother to read past the over-sensationalized articles linked to in the /. story.
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm guessing the Geek Squad will just need to have a PI on duty any time the kids are tinkering on other people's computers.
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:5, Interesting)
If this story is true, then whatever harebrained idiot thought this one up should have to do penance in the form of having to take the place of one of those undocumented maids for the next twenty years. That said, I don't see anything in that law that suggests that computer repair people have to be licensed PIs. The only people that are covered there are people who are doing forensic analysis on data not available to the general public. If you hire someone to do computer forensics (e.g. investigating the contents of a hard drive), that's a completely different service from merely replacing a defective power supply or even reinstalling Windows. Stretching that law to cover basic computer repairs is a fairly blatant perversion of the law as written and almost certainly won't hold up in court unless I'm either grossly misreading it or the story linked from this one is linking to the wrong law.
In any case, assuming the story is legit, let's take this same logic one step further. A maid finds child porn while cleaning some guy's den. We should, therefore, obviously require that every illegal, undocumented maid working in the state of Texas have a PI license. Similarly, every maintenance crew working for a company, every IT employee, every office assistant who might potentially use his/her boss's computer, every school computer lab administrator, every plumber (child porn could be hidden under the sink, you know), every electrician (going to rewire somebody's entertainment center), and every employee at every hard drive refurbishing center.
In short, this same logic would apply equally to large swaths of our population for precisely the same reason, and I predict this law will be struck down swiftly for precisely that reason. It unfairly singles out one small group for regulation out of a much larger group of people for whom the same conditions apply.
Further, as someone said a couple of posts up, the difference between laws requiring a PI license for this and laws requiring a PI license for someone doing an investigation, a medical license for a doctor, etc. is that in all of the cases where such laws have been considered constitutional in the past, the reason for the license was for the protection of the person hiring out for the work to ensure that the person doesn't get shafted, while in this case, the laws are predominantly for the protection of the state and are in direct contradiction to the needs, desires, and best interests of the person hiring out for the work.
As for planting evidence, there's really no more protection against that just because somebody has a PI license. There are plenty of crooked licensed private investigators, lawyers, doctors, etc. At best, there is the additional disincentive of losing your license if caught, but it's not like a computer repair tech can't get a job doing computer repair in a corporate IT department, which presumably would not entail such licensing requirements, or else there are likely to be a lot of high-tech companies (e.g. Apple, Dell, etc.) telling Texas to go f*ck themselves and moving their operations to another state.
More importantly, computer companies that contract out mail-in repairs are likely to eschew Texas from now on. Why? Too much extra expense. Instead of hiring a minimum-wage person and training them in a week, they'll have to hire someone with an expensive license and/or spend months training them at tremendous expense. I know a couple of businesses that are likely to dry up overnight.
Sounds like yet another stupid law written by stupid people for stupid reasons that won't actually fix what it was intended to fix. Since that describes about 98% of all laws passed in my lifetime, could somebody explain why this is news? :-)
Venus on the Half-Shell (Score:5, Interesting)
Or to put it another way, see the metaphor used by Princess Leia to Grand Moff Tarkin.
I think the trend to move responsibility into the hands of licensors has rational limits. I believe it is the purpose of satire to determine what those limits are.
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:3, Interesting)
"I'm mandated to tell you to get stuffed. Meet my friend, Louisville Slugger."
Effective privacy legislation is what you really need. Up here (Quebec) private investigators aren't allowed to snoop into people's private lives. No following your spouse around to dig up dirt, no making friends with someone at the DMV (ok, the Société de l'assurance automobile du Québec - the SAAQ) - the last employee caught giving out personal info is sitting in jail. About all that PIs *can* do nowadays is loss prevention, skip tracing, and the like.
True story - a guy who I won't name* was sitting in a car parked on the street across from his place, watching his significant other getting it on with his brother. Cops came by, asked him what we was doing, and told him he didn't have the right to spy on other people ("But it's my place!" "Doesn't matter."), and if he didn't get moving. they'd have to arrest him.
* (except to say that the only time I saw him, my impression was he's a fat, stupid, loser doper whose last name is Bromonte - I say stupid, because crooks should know better than to try to threaten someone who's honest and has no reason to hesitate before calling the cops)
So what about company laptops? (Score:1, Interesting)
Anyone that sends their computer to be fixed by someone else shouldn't expect any more privacy than a homeowner who hires someone to fix something around the house and than complains that they should not of noticed the DVDs or magazines laying around the house with naked children on them. This guy doesn't sound like he is using anything to break the encryption and reading the website he linked gives no indication he would have technology that advanced unless he worked for the company mentioned. If you have child porn in plain sight ( i.e. unencrypted ) you should have no right to complain when the techs turn you in.
Read your company policies about what they can do to your computer to find things you hide on it. You might be surprised.
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:2, Interesting)
there's no right to work in any field at all.
Last time I checked, this is America, snowgirl, I have a damn right to work in whatever field I want to. That said, as a computer tech, why the hell should I have to get a license in another field just to practice my chosen profession (that I have spent years in, I might add) just because idiot judge 'might' through evidence out.
That is utter BS. If someone happens upon a crime, and calls the cops is the judge going to through that evidence out because it was not first discovered by the police? Hell, no. First of all, look at what kind of precedent that would set. Second, its just stupid. Apply the same rule to the tech working on a system when he discovers illegal porn. Normal rules in most shops would be to immediately stop working on the system and call the cops. The police would then confiscate the system for their trained and licensed forensic techs to examine. There is no way that the porn discovered could be considered 'fruit of the poisoned tree' due to an illegal search and seizure because the moment that you give full rights to the tech to work on your system, then anything out in the open (i.e. not encrypted) is fair game. Its just like having weed in your trunk when you take your car to the garage to be worked on. That shop would have the right to call the police and that evidence seized and you would be subject to arrest.
Seeing crap like that makes me glad I don't live in Texas... ... and you KNOW who comes from Texas....
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:3, Interesting)
....No, because computers are much more likely to be involved in crimes....
So why single out people who REPAIR computers? What about people who administer servers containing terabytes of data? Is it not also likely that among all the data might be buried some evidence of crimes? Why not require such a license for everybody who touches a computer not their own? How is someone who reinstalls Windows will replace us a video card different from other computer professionals?
I think that the law enforcement angle and the collection of evidence is a smokescreen for someone trying to beat out competition and make themselves an extra buck. It would be interesting to find out who the sponsors of this law are, how much and by whom they were paid.
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:3, Interesting)
....when did it become ok in America to FORCE an entire profession to become an arm of the government.....
When they passed income tax and payroll withholding laws, every employer became an arm of the IRS. Doctors have long been required by law to report all sorts of things to the government. Anyone who knowingly fails to report a fugitive criminal, is breaking the law and thereby can be himself go to jail. These sorts of laws have been on the books for along time and nobody complained about it.
liberalism (Score:5, Interesting)
The liberal mindset is that you are not allowed to choose
That's not a liberal mindset. The original liberalism, Classical Liberalism [wikipedia.org] which stems from The Age Of Enlightenment [wikipedia.org] and The Age of Reason [wikipedia.org], was all about liberty and small government. Among the USA's Founding Fathers who were Liberals were Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and Thomas Paine. The father of Capitalism Adam Smith was a Liberal. As used today "liberal" and "liberalism" has been twisted to mean something a lot different than it did.
Then again other words have had the same thing done to them, like "hack" and "hacker". Whereas a hack used to mean something creative and a hacker was someone who hacked, and writers were hacks too, today they are used for crimes and criminals. As used with computers a hacker follows the Hacker ethic [wikipedia.org].
Falcon
life and limb (Score:3, Interesting)
I think it makes sense for skills to be licensed in areas where life and limb are potentially at risk.
So you want to license parents then?
Falcon
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:2, Interesting)
I mean, look at post-WWII East Germany ... they eventually had half the population spying on the other half.
Maybe the goal these days is to have each half spy the other half?
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, Doctor-patient privilege would prevent a doctor from telling the cops that one of his patients used drugs. The only point where he could release that information to others would be if the patient gave express permission or if the information was necessary to save the patient's life. (And even then, the confidentiality clause would extend to other medical personnel informed of the drug abuse.)
Knowing use of unlicensed personnel = crime (Score:3, Interesting)
The law [state.tx.us] provides for fines of knowing use of someone who is not licensed.
But the law also is focused on those who call themselves "Security Services personnel" -- guards, those who do investigations (PI's).
I'm not sure how people are getting this applies to computer repairs....the security personnel must also be licensed to carry a gun....
This doesn't seem to be the run-of-the-mill computer repair situation. Maybe if you are investigating 'fraud' in a company...but, beyond that --
Someone want to 'enlighten' me how this applies to normal (i.e. not looking for forensic evidence of illegal activities) computer repair ops?
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, this is great for geeks. When my neighbor asks me to swap-out the hard-drive in his PC, I can say, "Sorry, that's illegal. But I will stand over your shoulder and walk you through it." That way, some people will learn (with help) how to do these things for themselves, and others will stop asking. The second type of person will contribute to great dumpster-diving days ahead. That is a win-win.
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:3, Interesting)
Firstly your example is more proof to point to that companies that run without an It department or a regular IT consultant are dumb. They ran how long with out of date software? Also who was the one that made the bonehead decision to use software that not only locks you in but locks you to the upgrade treadmill or you die? Why dont they have real accounting software that allows data migration?
Simple, the people that made those decisions had no IT experience or knowledge. now they are in a nasty pickle with only an expensive way out.
You as a good consultant need to find used copies of Quicken that fit between then and now and migrate to each version. your customer needs to quit being cheap and pony up for new software every year.
Windows based IT is expensive, why dont these small companies get it through their skull? If they want to ride the windows train they need to pay up every 12 months for upgrades to all software and hardware.
I say this still supporting a 10Base2 network at a local machine shop. The owner, instead of buying a new CNC controller for his machines and new software, bought a new Porsche instead.
Now he pays $229.00 an hour for my services as I'm the only game in town that will touch 10Base2 networking and older DOS/WFW3.11 systems.
Re:Slaughterhouse Cases (Score:3, Interesting)
And how many doctors, licensed doctors, screw up every day? A license does not guarantee competency, and lack of a license does not guarantee lack of competency.
Since you mentioned doctors, I can tell you a few stories. First, at one point I worked in a medical clinic (as a computer tech). My boss was a med school graduate who was trying to get his license. I walked in on him studying and jokingly asked what he was so worried about since the test was easy. His response, "OK, smart ass, what's the answer to this question?" from his study book. After I got 4 correct in a row I was kicked out his office. He eventually did pass, but not on that try.
I've filed a complaint against one doctor that "treated" me with the state medical board, but that was dismissed for "lack of evidence". Basically it was my word against his and the medical board sides with doctors in all but the most extreme cases. A nurse I knew told me that doctor had lost his license in another state and had come here and gotten re-licensed. A not uncommon practice I hear.
In a more recent story, I did something careless and both broke and dislocated my elbow. The emergency room doctor who "treated" me first overdosed me on general anesthesia. I don't know everything that happened, but I did learn defibrillators hurt, a lot! Then he failed to properly pop my arm back in place, so it had to be popped back in again (by a more competent doctor). Even with a local, it still was extremely painful, even worse that the defibrillator.
In a less recent story, I was in the emergency waiting room with a friend and overheard part of conversation. The guy had been to "multiple specialists" (referring to doctors) who had no idea why he was sick and getting sicker. I pulled the doctor aside and told him to call the police, and what to test for. The police did later talk to me, so I got confirmation I was right. He was suffering from heavy metal poisoning. Whether it was a crime or accidental exposure I never learned. Some of the materials I worked with a couple years earlier required a safety course, and the symptoms of heavy metal poisoning were part of the course.
I can go on with even more stories, but I think I made my point. A license is no guarantee of competency.