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eBay Australia Delays PayPal Change Indefinitely 56

Posted by Soulskill
from the angry-watchdogs dept.
Daehenoc points out news that eBay Australia has postponed their ban on all forms of payment other than PayPal. The ban had already been delayed once, but eBay Australia has now decided to simply wait for the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to determine whether or not the move is acceptable. We discussed the beginnings of this story back in April.
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eBay Australia Delays PayPal Change Indefinitely

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  • by Merls the Sneaky (1031058) on Saturday June 28, 2008 @02:09AM (#23978421)

    Bid $10 000

    Buy it now $50 000

  • Why? (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by Dan541 (1032000)

    Is this something to do with Google.

  • The ACCC is under pressure due to their inability to do anything about fuel price fixing and a cardboard box cartel. They will probably use ebay + paypal as a risk free and high profile excuse to justify their existance. Expect legal action and Palpal execs suddenly realising that laws were drawn up after previous failures especially to put people like them in an actual jail if they fail to comply.
    • by Aereus (1042228) on Saturday June 28, 2008 @02:27AM (#23978493)
      Cardboard box cartel? I've now heard it all... Crazy Aussies ;)
    • by timmarhy (659436) on Saturday June 28, 2008 @02:42AM (#23978549)
      err the cardboard box cartel thing resulted in a WIN for the ACCC and the biggest ever corperate fine handed out in australian history. pick another example. fuel prices are high due to factors well outside of the ACCC's ability to regulate - servo operators already operate on a razor thin margin of a few cents per litre, the real driving force is increased international demand and overseas oil cartels. so again, please try a different example.

      ACCC action has nothing to do with ebay stopping the trial, it's more likely the very public backlash they are feeling.

      • by dbIII (701233) on Saturday June 28, 2008 @03:40AM (#23978743)
        The detail with the cartel is the ACCC can take no personal action against the perpetrator but they would like to so it as not seen as being a complete success. Rules are being changed so that they can do so in the future.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by fabs64 (657132)
          One of the perpetrators is currently facing criminal charges for lying to the investigation.

          But I take your point, pricks should have been sent to jail for the crime not for the technicality they committed while in the process.
      • by aussie_a (778472)

        How is it every single petrol station, no matter which company they claim to be, all have identical prices? And all of their prices rise and fall at the exact same days?

        How can anyone hear these facts and still reject the fact that there is price fixing going on.

        • by MrNaz (730548)

          Because all petrol stations get their petrol from about 3 or 4 different sources in Australia, all of which come through the exact same supply channels, all controlled by Big Oil. The price fixing happens at a far higher level than at the petrol station. Some smaller petrol stations that try to buck the trend (buying petrol on cheap days and selling it lower priced on high days) find themselves quickly unable to buy petrol from Big Oil.

          • by aussie_a (778472)

            Interesting. I wonder if that's illegal (forcing distributors of my product to sell it for a particular price)?

            Also I just realise I replied to timmarhy so I wasted my breath.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by quenda (644621)

          How is it every single petrol station, no matter which company they claim to be, all have identical prices?

          Where is that? Maybe they copy each other.
          Here in WA its certainly not true. That is prevented by the fuelwatch scheme:

          http://www.fuelwatch.wa.gov.au/ [wa.gov.au]

          • by aussie_a (778472)

            Sydney. Not only are the prices identical, but they go up every Wednesday and then go back down on Monday. Glad to see some government has stepped in to do something about it. If only mine would :(

            • by tlhIngan (30335)

              Sydney. Not only are the prices identical, but they go up every Wednesday and then go back down on Monday. Glad to see some government has stepped in to do something about it. If only mine would :(

              Well, in a highly-competitive market, price changes from one merchant follow another. Take an example from Vancouver BC - the drivers here are literally stupid enough to drive across Metro Vancouver (GVRD) to save a penny per litre. As a result, a station may decide to lower their price a bit, and if they do it en

  • by AmiMoJo (196126) <mojo@@@world3...net> on Saturday June 28, 2008 @03:05AM (#23978637) Homepage

    Although officially eBay does not allow Google Checkout, you can simply put that you "accept credit cards" with some credit card logos on your auction and then send people an invoice when they win.

    Unfortunately a lot of people assume that everyone on eBay takes PayPal and are shocked to discover that you don't, but PayPal is such a terrible system for both buyers and sellers I don't use it any more.

    In the UK PayPal make it impossible to deal with them. Any dispute always comes down to who can get a "police report" (crime incident report) which is impossible to obtain because the transaction is covered by civil law. In the event you can lie you way into getting one from the police, you automatically win - and if they refuse you automatically loose. If you are a buyer you can't ask your credit card company for help either because they only cover the transaction you make with PayPal, not the transaction made with the seller.

    Worst of all is the customer "service" which is split into two groups. The first group are useless time wasters whose job is to make you go away. If you email them you always get a standard copy-paste response, which is usually not even related to your question. Basically it seems like they deliberately avoid the question. If you call them they know nothing, can't do anything and can't help. The second group will never ever talk to you, but is responsible for making all decisions and controls everything. These are the people you need to deal with, but they are impossible to reach.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 28, 2008 @03:41AM (#23978747)

      Unfortunately a lot of people assume that everyone on eBay takes PayPal and are shocked to discover that you don't, but PayPal is such a terrible system for both buyers and sellers I don't use it any more.

      eBay in Australia actually requires that you offer Paypal in your listings. The ACCC action only stopped eBay from disallowing almost all other methods of payments.

      And Google Checkout doesn't operate in Australia yet.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 28, 2008 @04:08AM (#23978845)

      I believe that Ebay's customer service is carefully crafted to 'Not provide' service. A couple of monkeys will send you pre-drafted sickly polite emails in response to your complaints, but noone will ever do anything.

      Ebay have only one goal in mind - the more transactions the bigger their profits. They do not give a damn if the transaction is legal or not.

      I think the ACCC needs to press for more regulations requiring firms like Ebay to clean up their act. Until that happens, Ebay is 'crim heaven'

    • by MoonBuggy (611105)

      You're no longer allowed to 'not accept PayPal' on eBay UK - it's required for almost all sales.

      Google checkout is an interesting one - it's specifically marked as not acceptable on the eBay help pages, but through a rather protracted conversation with customer services I managed to find out that sellers are allowed to use it but that it must be offered alongside PayPal and outside of eBay's checkout.

      Incidentally, it is normally possible to get something of an answer from them if you're persistent and direc

    • by Bert64 (520050) <bert AT slashdot DOT firenzee DOT com> on Saturday June 28, 2008 @09:05AM (#23980079) Homepage

      Yes, i have had many bad experiences with paypal and corrupt sellers taking advantage of the flaws in their system to rip off purchasers, take a look at:
      http://www.ev4.org/wordpress/category/fastmemorymanscam/ [ev4.org]

      Then there's their "subscription" service, where a company can automatically bill you on a recurring system, there seems to be absolutely no way to see which subscriptions are active or how to cancel them. A corrupt seller can lie to you about cancelling the subscription and you have no idea if they lied or not until paypal charges you, and when you dispute it they simply ignore you.

      ebay also cancel your listing if you try to recover the cost of paypal charges in your listing, because the idea of an extra 5% or so to cover costs would encourage buyers to pay by other means.

  • Might it be... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by EdIII (1114411) * on Saturday June 28, 2008 @04:02AM (#23978823)

    That PayPal sucks?

    I'm not trolling here either. The serious problems that PayPal has are widely known. From buyers to merchants, everybody has a horror story that has prevented them from doing business in confidence. There is even a well known anti-PayPal website out there.

    A few months back when eBay started making those changes I canceled my account and told them reason why I was canceling the account. Apparently, I was not the only one. eBay used to be a place where the "common" man could go to sell his used items. Sure, it turned out to be a nifty place for people to setup shop as professional sellers, but it did not start out that way.

    Since eBay made it mandatory that you accept PayPal, regardless of what type of seller you were, it forced people to make a decision. I think there has been QUITE A LOT of those decisions made and possibly eBay is taking notice of it's user base diminishing quite rapidly, from casual sellers to professional merchants.

    Heck, I have not even visited eBay's website since that last announcement. I used to check it for prices and good deals, and now I just use Google Shopping instead.

    • by Mista2 (1093071)
      Last time I had a Paypal Account, I got spammed so bad I had to change my address. No way am I going to list anything and require a paypal transaction. Luckily Trademe here in NZ has no such requirement.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by backbyter (896397)

      I also canceled my eBay and PayPal accounts in April, trying to show some solidarity with eBay users in Australia.

      I made it very clear that I was closing both accounts due to the policy that eBay Inc was pursuing. (Whether anyone read the comments is another story.)

      Over the past 10 years, I put roughly $40k through eBay, with about $20k of that through PayPal with a linked bank account. As a buyer only, I've never had a problem with either eBay or PayPal.

      Frankly, the only thing I'll miss eBay for is buyin

    • I cancelled my account that I'd had for nearly 10 years (yikes!) and made sure they knew exactly why I closed it. A long time ago I got burned by PayPal and there's no way I'm ever using it again.


      I'll keep an eye on Oztion and see if that takes off well enough to be useful. Looks promising so far.

  • Only problem I had with Paypal it took forever to transfer money from my bank account... well 2 whole weeks.
  • I find this intresting because I have never had any problem with them.

    • Re:Paypal = bad? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by MoonBuggy (611105) on Saturday June 28, 2008 @08:09AM (#23979811) Journal

      The first thing I would say is that whether they're good or whether they're bad, it is absolutely unacceptable for one company with almost 100% of the market (eBay) to force you to use a specific service.

      In my opinion PayPal's dispute resolution process is dubious at best and the customer service is nothing short of abysmal. A more concrete reason to dislike being forced to use them, however, is simply that they are considerably more expensive than other equivalent services.

      • by g0rAngA (1131007)
        I wrote to them a while back about the mandatory paypal offering, and basically told them the following:
        1. That i don't appreciate having anything forced on me
        2. That it is totally unacceptable for them to mandate any particular form of payment
        3. That it is still very important that they continue to offer paypal as an option, but at the discretion of buyer/seller
  • I have major problems with paypal.
    I've never been scammed but I've heard they frequently favour the buyer over the seller (I'm a seller)

    My real issue is the god damned *expletive* fees.
    For an ONLINE system which costs them absoloutely stuff all to run (when you factor in the quantity of auctions on the system) the prices are ridiculously high.
    They could take .01% of all auctions and still make a killing, they don't though, not even close.

    I really wish I purchased ebay shares long long ago.

    • Re:GOOD! (Score:5, Informative)

      by ejecta (1167015) on Saturday June 28, 2008 @09:19AM (#23980159)

      I know what you mean, as a seller it's really wonderful to be charged a listing fee, a gallery picture fee, a final value fee, a 2.4% paypal fee and then another $2 to get your money out of paypal.

      Not to mention you have to also use registered post otherwise you'll automatically lose any dispute and paypal will sweep your account for price+postage regardless of the validity of the buyers dispute - A favourite of dodgy buyers here is to claim it the item was not received, if you have an express post tracking id showing it delivered paypal will still find in favour of the buyer as they only accept registered post tracking.

      Result: You lose your item and the auction value + postage fees, even though you can prove it was delivered!

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Bert64 (520050)

      Well, they favour the buyer over legitimate sellers...
      But there are plenty of ways that an unscrupulous seller can use the system to his advantage.

      Did you realise you can register your paypal account in one country, while selling goods in another? When a buyer wants to return something, they have to pay the cost of international shipping plus tracking service to wherever your paypal account is registered, regardless of where you are located or where the items were shipped from.

      Assuming you live in the UK, g

    • I suppose Visa/MC/Amex should all lower their rates from the traditional 1.7%-3.5% down to 0.1% as well then. A lot of the reason behind the fee's is that it's a way to mitigate their losses on chargebacks and fraud.

      I'm not saying I support PayPal's particular practises, I choose to avoid them if at all possible, but their fee's are on par with everyone else.
  • by ejecta (1167015) on Saturday June 28, 2008 @09:14AM (#23980133)

    I don't really think they are that worried about the ACCC - when the ACCC released there draft ruling all they did was delay the changes a little, they were still going to be put in place in blatent defiance of the ACCC draft ruling and before the actual ruling was due to be released.

    What I don't think they bargained for was the media coverage on the front page of the Sydney Morning Herald, The Age and Telegragh which framed the issue as if eBay were scamming their own customers - the stories were quite blunt and less than flattering of eBay Australia.

    I think they cared a lot more about all the negative press and the SMH was throwing down the gauntlet pressuring the ACCC to become engaged prior to release of the final ruling - that's something no company wants. Angry media representatives do more damage that your average government pen pusher.

  • EBay are only attempting this because they are a monopoly and are vigorously trying to monetize that point.

    I think it is high time there was a competing auction service in Australia (although unfortunatley the nature of action sites gravitate to one).
    In New Zealand there is a site called TradeMe.co.nz and it was first and saw off eBay. The Service is much better, and there are many features which eBay (in Australia) don't bother with (better pictures) anti snipe delays etc etc.
    Unfortunately it will take a m

  • eBay has been spamming Australian customers with PR drivel like this one they sent me: "eBay challenges yesterday's Australian Competition and Consumer Commission's (ACCC) draft notice and is disappointed that the ACCC's current view delays the opportunity to provide consumers a more secure way to shop on eBay.com.au with confidence"

    With confidence? I had a dispute where the seller did a runner. I thought PayPal protected me, but it turns out once the seller has taken the loot and run, tough luck. To try

  • ...the ACCC can allow them to only accept PayPal, but PayPal is not allowed to collect any fees on the transactions. If eBay is doing this for "consumer safety", I'm sure they won't mind freely offering their payment service.

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