Internet Pirates In France To Lose Broadband 388
slyjackhammer writes "France is purporting to take a hard line on copyrighted media (movies and music). According to timesonline.co.uk, a new measure approved yesterday by the French Cabinet would kill the Internet connection to those caught downloading illegally. 'There is no reason that the internet should be a lawless zone," President Sarkozy told his Cabinet yesterday as it endorsed the "three-strikes-and-you're-out" scheme that from next January will hit illegal downloaders where it hurts. Under a cross-industry agreement, internet service providers (ISPs) must cut off access for up to a year for third-time offenders.' Google and video site Dailymotion have refused to sign up as consenting participants, and the state data protection agency, consumer and civil liberties groups and the European Parliament are all kicking against the goad as well. France may be pioneer in this kind of legislation, but they sure have their work cut out for them."
what about my wife and children? (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't that like in the Middle Ages?
Re:Democracy (Score:5, Insightful)
at least they don't extort you (Score:2, Insightful)
they just want their law to be respected, not your money.
Re:what about my wife and children? (Score:5, Insightful)
three warnings? (Score:4, Insightful)
At risk of being modded down with a baseball bat, this sounds fair.
Three warnings should be more than enough. If you are unaware of the infringing use when you get your first warning, you should try to find out who's doing it. If you don't bother, then well that's your own fault.
It's a whole lot better then being sued for thousands of dollars, at least you get a chance to find out what's happening, or if you are the downloader, to stop with no consequences.
Yeah, okay (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, you know the reason someone like Google won't sign up to be willing participants is because it's signing away their common carrier status. That will have HUGE legal repercussions in the United States. They will be suddenly responsible for even the most minor violation and susceptible to law suit. No company in their right mind would do that. It's not going to be out of the kindness of their hearts. If they could help nail people who are violating copyright without carrying any legal responsibility at all, I'm sure they would.
I'm not seeing a problem with this. You don't have a right to "share" material that is copyrighted by someone other than you if they didn't give you consent. You may not like this, you can come up with all the (possibly valid) reasons things should not be that way. It's not for YOU to decide. The only real problem is how something like this is enforced. I'm willing to bet it will be done with a false positive rate that won't go over well with the French people, who from this side of the pond seem the kind of people who don't put up with their government doing stupid things (I seriously commend them for their idea of how to go on strike).
Re:I guess.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Well if you RTFA you'll see that they are trying to get it right:
Seems like a fair deal to me. Instead of pro-actively punishing everybody on the assumption that they're going to steal, only actually punish the ones that do.
The points about coffee shop wireless etc are all valid - presumably either the law won't apply to communal wireless (gaping loophole) or cafes/airports/etc will simply bite the IPv4 bullet and buy more addresses so they can associate a C&D notice with an actual (cc verified) customer.
Anyway. I think Sarkozy is talking sense here. Do law enforcement the old fashioned way - by finding and punishing the people actually breaking the law.
Re:Yeah, okay (Score:2, Insightful)
this law is pretty even handed. 3 strikes and you lose internet access for UP TO a year, so you know it's going to be less. this is much better than being sued and having the RIAA france eating up court time filing john doe suits.
Re:Democracy; and the easy solution (Score:5, Insightful)
do it once and be fired for breaching the IT usage policy that you signed while joining the company.
beside, it's not as if a governemental agency is blocking uniterally your internet access.
I suppose that in that case, your company is considered as an ISP.
Re:three warnings? (Score:5, Insightful)
agreed 100%, and I am fully expecting the whole of slashdot to agree with you, as (from what i read here), the vast majority of people using p2p are doing it to download creative commons and open source programs and linux distributions. All that traffic to the piratebay is just people sharing their holiday photos etc.
I think it's pretty fair, if I get caught speeding i get fined instantly, I don't get given 2 warnings first.
And anyone who expects mass public campaigns against this needs to get out and speak to ordinary people. Most voters care about taxes, education, health and the economy, not whether or not their kids can keep maxxing out their bit-torrent speeds.
three strikes politician out (Score:5, Insightful)
The punishment doesn't fit the "crime". To the "knowledge worker" Europe wants to base it's future on, losing broadband is the digital equivalent of house arrest. Without access to radio, television, books and newspapers.
I like the three strike approach though. Should be applied to politicians. Sell out your voters to special interest groups three times and your out. Would really cleans out the European Commission and the European Council.
Re:three warnings? (Score:5, Insightful)
If by "strike" you mean "being found guilty of some crime by a jury of your peers" then sure. But I don't think that's what the media companies have in mind.. considering that there are no laws which criminalize downloading of copyright restricted works - not even in France.
Re:three warnings? (Score:5, Insightful)
If by "strike" you mean "being found guilty of some crime by a jury of your peers" then sure. But I don't think that's what the media companies have in mind..
wrong summary (Score:5, Insightful)
Dumb Internet Pirates In France To Lose Broadband
Internet Pirates In France With The Slightest Bit of Technical Acumen To Carry On As Usual
there, fixed that for you
Reality to media industry: Accept the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
Dear media outlets: Please accept the fact that you are fighting a war that you cannot win. Even with custom-tailored laws at your will the internet won't change and piracy won't go away at large. It is also still doubtful that it is piracy what is causing your alledged losses and not a general loss of quality in and appreciation of music. For the latter part it's even you who is to blame: Music is nowadays everywhere - with your permission. Bad versions of your "hits" are sold as overly annoying cell phone ringtones - with your permission and appraisal.
Some parts of the media business already have learned that both giving away for free and piracy is actually increasing business, not hurting it. Eric Flint, a sci-fi writer has pointed this out: http://baens-universe.com/articles/salvos8 [baens-universe.com] and http://baens-universe.com/articles/The_Economics_of_Writing [baens-universe.com] Instead of treating your customers like shit, making a witch-hunt and introducing bull shit like DRM which only scares away your loyal customers towards piracy - pirated versions don't have silly limitations - you should finally realize that you need to do what every business in trouble need to do: Adapt. Or die. Whatever.
Sincerely
Reality
Re:Democracy; and the easy solution (Score:2, Insightful)
Not hard... Make sure to plant the downloading software on machines that are not linked to you. (Coworker you don't like, a badly secured server, etc, etc..) Many places don't do MAC-address checks and connect any laptop to the network and they will access the whole network. A few Gumstix Linux machines [gumstix.com] that download Britney Spears continually to /dev/null, well hidden around the office under the raised floor.
It's easy, really...
Not that I would do such a thing, but you just have to think a bit out of the box.
Re:what about my wife and children? (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, in that time period, you'd be considered an actor for copying a play, or a musician for copying a song.
Losing Internet is akin to Losing Electricity (Score:4, Insightful)
Such punishment may have made sense 10 years ago when the internet was a novelty / toy to most people. But today, many people rely on the internet for basic everyday needs, such as communication, employment, paying bills, filing taxes, etc.
Ron
Re:Democracy; and the easy solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Hit them were it hurts !! (Score:1, Insightful)
i don't think the ruling elite .. are really thinking this through to the end ..
without access to content and a high-speed INTERNET connection i will have very little use for any but the most basic of portables .. EeePc or the equivalent with WiFi .. although i will probable wait a will for a nice VIA nano or similarly equipped device 12-13 inch .. which will still give me INTERNET access .. all be it with slightly great degree of effort on my part .. and maybe the price of a coffee ..
and it will be the last $500-600 i spend on tech or internet access that the general economy will ever get from me .. and you think $150-$200 a barrel oil is going to hit the western tech based .. oil Dependant economies hard .. just add that in to the mix on an even moderate level and let's see how long they lasts ..
i pay just a little over a $1000 a year including TAX for my 6-10MB cable connection .. been doing that for about 10 years now .. and spend about $1000-2500 a year on computer hardware .. not including the 5 to 10 systems a year that i build for Friends and acquaintances .. that will all end .. i will quit .. go ahead and cut me off and see who suffers more .. me or the general economy .. for my part i will give up on computers and tech .. and go outside and get some fresh air .. and catch up on my reading etc.
yea go ahead hit me were it hurts !!
it would probably be the best thing that could happen .. the end of my unhealthy information and stimulus ADDICTION !!!
bring it on baby ..
Re:wrong summary (Score:2, Insightful)
Hmm, even with technological acumen...
"Bonjour, Mr Tom Pirate! Since we're your ISP, we noticed you were smart enough to download TOR/insert your alternative, then over the next three days, 37 gigabytes of we-don't-know-what were downloaded. We still called the cops, though. TOR = pedophile or terrorist, you know?"
If they *want* to find out - no software will save you.
Re:Democracy (Score:5, Insightful)
What are you suggesting is at stake? I have downloaded music illegally on occasion, though I've actually bought a few albums because I like what I hear. For example I downloaded the Guitar Hero III soundtrack and have bought albums from 5 of the artists on there, 4 of whom I'd never heard of before. I do own the game though so maybe that's a bit of a grey area. I have received music from a few people illegally and similarly I just bought a Dream Theater album as a result of that. So I can see the point of people who want to encourage file sharing and say that it doesn't always damage the industry, though I also accept that it is currently illegal. Some people will always be jerks and just want to get everything for free. I met someone recently who went on about SoulSeek and how it's great you can get everything for free etc, I was pretty disgusted because I think that anyone who likes a band should give something back to the artist rather than use the excuse that the artist should do it just for the love of music, though it is a fair point because a lot of bands don't get paid much if anything and really do play just for the love of music (I used to be in a band, it was good fun, though if I were to do it as my main occupation then I would definitely want paid - hiring a decent recording studio for a day costs about as much as I make in 2 weeks.. and hiring a practice room for an hour costs about as much as I make per hour). Using the "music should be free" reasoning, a coder should always work for free (open source is good, but how do you pay the bills?), doctors should always work for free (I know doctors and nurses that pay to go out to other countries to help out, but again how do they pay for their training or bills if they don't have a job?). People that act like everything should be free that are just freeloaders who pretend to be acting for the greater good, but really are just making the whole situation worse and giving the RIAA et al an excuse to push for bullshit control laws like this. I don't have a problem with this as long as it's just monitoring actual illegal music downloading, but how are they even going to know if someone is downloading music if for example they are using an encrypted network?
Re:Reality to media industry: Accept the truth (Score:2, Insightful)
Like most people at /. I don't think there is any way to enforce a law like this, perhaps except maybe for a whitelist where the only Google hit for warez and the like would be the Wikipedia-entry. But if they really could do it, then after all these years of endless debates about whether filesharing hurts the entertainment industry or not, one country would perhaps finally be able to provide statistically useable data. Then we could see if the sales would really skyrocket, especially for movies, as unlike for music, there are no noteworthy free alternatives to mass appealing Hollywood blockbusters (yet).
Re:Democracy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:three warnings? (Score:2, Insightful)
you have to actually introduce laws to make downloading a crime
Re:what about my wife and children? (Score:4, Insightful)
You lose your driving licence after repeated speeding; that's your car grounded for three years, a resource used by the whole household.
You get a fine for parking illegally; that's money that otherwise could've redecorated the kitchen, a resource used by the whole family.
You get communal service for being drunk and disorderly; that's your evenings tied up for the next six months, time you could have otherwise spent helping your children with homework.
Punishing you inevitably affects your family, it can't be helped. That's something you're supposed to take into consideration before you commit the crime.
Re:three warnings? (Score:3, Insightful)
Try getting caught speeding over and over, and sooner or later your license will be suspended. It may take a few more than 3 tries depending on how serious your speeding offense is. Doing 100 MPH in a 25 MPH zone three times would probably do it.
Can't your wife drive? (Score:1, Insightful)
How about your teen kid?
Re:Democracy (Score:3, Insightful)
It should be noted that no government in history has ever significantly and permanently reduced its power or revenue through the process of democracy. There is simply no historical example of a peaceful dis-empowering of a democratic government, let alone centralized power in general.
I suggest we think long and hard about this, because it spells out the eventual outcome of all democracies, and indeed, all governments: economic collapse, or war.
Was the process of democracy intended to result in a never-ending expansion of government, year after year concentrating power into the hands of the elite few? I don't believe it was, but the cold hard facts are very alarming.
Re:Democracy (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's an idea... get your ethics straight. Situational ethics and moral relativism are the height of craven hypocrisy. Don't like Microsoft as a company? Then walk away. Why not spend the time you spend helping people to rip them off sending them, instead, to an open source or competing product? As people here are so fond of pointing out, there are plenty of ways to edit a
Re:what about my wife and children? (Score:3, Insightful)
Your wife and license-bearing kids can still use the car. You can sell the car. You can loan it to friends. You can even convince local teens to drive you to the mall in exchange for providing them a way to get there at the same time. You can still physically drive it in emergencies.
Re:Democracy (Score:1, Insightful)
That doesn't make sense. If you lose that 5% of your customers that use 95% of the bandwidth, then your profits will soar.
Re:Losing Internet is akin to Losing Electricity (Score:2, Insightful)
So the punishment should act as a pretty good deterrent then shouldn't it? Its not everyone's right to download copyrighted materials because they [can't afford it]/[don't think its worth it]/[want to strike a blow against the captialist scum]*.
The outrage over this is tired and predictable. People know that the copyright holders don't want them to download the [music]/[video]/[movie]* without some recompense. That the legal system is finally trying to catch up shouldn't be a surprise. Just be thankful that you've got away with it for so long.
[*] delete as appropriate
The courts do that after PROOF is tendered. (Score:4, Insightful)
Try getting caught speeding over and over, and sooner or later your license will be suspended. It may take a few more than 3 tries depending on how serious your speeding offense is. Doing 100 MPH in a 25 MPH zone three times would probably do it.
this is done BY CORPORATIONS ON MERE ACCUSATION.
disgusting, ALL OF YOU.
Re:what about my wife and children? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you use a knife to murder someone, it will be confiscated for evidence. That's even if it was your wife's favourite kitchen knife.
I'm not saying I agree with the law, but why do people have to go so over the top in their discussion of it (and why do people think nonsense like this is insightful)?
the confiscation of that knife does not bar you from buying another, unlike this initiative.
this is not over the top.
a time to confront irrational legal measures (Score:1, Insightful)
IMHO the history of law in France is marked by irrational political maneuvers followed by revolution or riots. France is a nation of great technology and I hope all tech-minded individuals stand up for free (ab)use of information and question the leaders responsible for the measure.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise (IFPI, MPAA, RIAA lobbies), to put shackles upon sleeping men." --Voltaire
Re:Democracy (Score:3, Insightful)
Democracy does not protect against the worst result. That's what constitutions and checks on the power of government are for. Democracy, in an unchecked form, is little different from mob rule.
But botnets destroying the internet rage on? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm amazingly pissed off when I see stuff like this...
Not so much media companies buying laws but the fact that governments are able to address this somewhat questionable problem with such a "Final" solution and not stop the bullshit like botnets that are absolutely evil and destructive to all.