i went on a cruise and having photos seems quite regular for regulating getting on and off the boat. i can understand China's point of view of trying to keep out bad people. though it raises moral concerns, don't forget that there's a big chance for terrorism--especially with the protests to china. i'm not saying that it's a good thing; i'm just playing the devil's advocate-- i don't want big brother either, unless it's in the hands that i voted for.

So... stop buying tickets?

Going on the premise that China is the worlds first mature fascist government, would these tickets be considered unreasonable if the Olympics were being sponsored by a corporation? What if ExxonMobil hosted the Olympics? Or Walmart? Or HSBC? Or General Electric? If any of these companies hosted a sporting event, would it be unreasonable for them, as a business, to track this data within the tickets? My thinking is that China is simply becoming more of a corporate entity than a nation (albeit, a corporation with a billion employees). It seems like these tickets reflect that concept. Agree? Disagree?

Look guys, certain things are inevitable.

I don't buy this.

They will eventually clone a human - somewhere in the world - regardless of laws.

Arguably this has already taken place. If you mean clone a human and implant the clone in a human womb, or else have some sort of artificial womb technology to bring the cloned embryo to term...that may take a while.

We will eventually have computer chips embedded under our skin - it will start with a way to track children, then a way to expedite purchases, then a way to hold critical medical info and so on.

Do this in the US and you will have a million zillion Christians up in arms. Literally. The "Left Behind" book series was a huge-ass bestseller in a country where most people don't read if they don't have to. This might happen elsewhere, like the PRC, Vladimir Putin's Russian Federation, Japan...in fact, my prediction is that it will happen first in Japan and it will be promoted as a youth trend. It will never happen in the US. It will probably not happen in Alberta, Canada. It will probably not happen in certain Central and South American countries. It will probably not happen in South Korea, which is almost as Christian-centric as the US is.

Nothing is inevitable except death and taxes. Period.

Where Visa was a sponsor and you could only use a Visa card to buy tickets.

If they wanted to, they could have very easily tracked card number, and thereby person buying, with ticket info.

Most of the visitors will already have an RFID passport on them.

What do you mean Bush should oppose what China is doing?

He is probably taking notes, like "Hmm, that is a good idea, that is a tad bit too far for now, that another good idea"

We already have RFID chips in our passports. The government is engaging in warrantless wiretaps, the National Security Letter [wikipedia.org] is a blatant violation of the first amendment, Gitmo, War on Drugs, etc...

You don't need to look further than Washington to see "nonsense-ical human rights violations"

If you think it is only cheap stuff at wal-mart you may want to start checking your labels again.

There are many high dollar products crappily made in China and sold at whatever your favorite retail outlet happens to be.

I don't find wal-mart to be particularly worse than the vast majority of stores in terms of amount of crappy Chinese goods. The others, for whatever reason, make people feel good for paying more for the same crap they could have gotten for 20% less (and a different brand stuck on said products coming off the same assembly line with the same materials).

To find non-crap you not only have to be lucky enough to have a store locally that sales such items but also know enough about whatever you are purchasing to know what is and isn't crap.

In the end people purchasing crappy products made in china at a high price contribute more than people purchasing cheaply made items at a cheap price. The profit margin there is HUGE even when you take into account the extra money spent on advertisement to get people to hate the less expensive place to purchase it.

And, to note, one can very much find some quality items made in China - I have some cookware and cutlery that is quite good (and yes, I have several good kitchen knives - a few Henckel "s" grades and a Shun - but it is really hard to beat a Chinese high carbon steel cleaver and the hammered carbon steel woks are great).

I do not see why you would have a problem with this. As someone who entered the United States from a different country, when I paid to attend college, all my information is tracked by the government (through my college). Other privacy issues involve my phone calls being freely tapped into. In fact, something that inconveniences me (not a privacy issue) is people not being able to transfer money into my bank account online which marks me as a non-resident alien.

As an alien in this country, I am subjected to intrusion of privacy by a multitude of institutions that I do business with - The only way to avoid that is to "go under" and become an illegal immigrant.

I perfectly understand the need for this. I am an immigrant to the USA and if the society here (which has been nice enough to tolerate me) feels safer by having my life glimpsed at, I am OK with it. I strongly dislike it, but atleast they let me stay here eh?

What my college does with my privacy and what the Olympics committee of China does with a tourist's is not all that different.

I would however be mighty pissed if I were a Chinese citizen and subjected to this treatment. I truly feel sorry for them.

I am just pointing out that aliens in a country having their privacy violated is not unusual and as an alien I am not particularly bothered by China doing it to tourists.

Note: This is NOT an "I have nothing to hide" issue. It's more of "Thanks for letting me be in your house, you can watch me and I will be on my best behaviour"

Cheers!

Yeah, 12:

1. Family Name
2. First Name
3. Date of Birth
4. Country of Citizenship
5. Sex (Male or Female)
6. Passport Number
7. Airline and Flight Number (if applicable)
8. Country Where You Live -- Lawful Permanent Residence
9. City Where You Boarded (if applicable)
10. City Where Visa was Issued (if applicable)
11. Date Issued (Day/Mo/Yr) (if applicable)
12. Address While in the United States

Seems identical to the info the other countries I've been to require.

Sounds like you're referring to the Secure Flight program, which 1) was never fully in effect; 2) has been suspended until at least 2010, and naturally is getting a lot of resistance from Canada and Mexico; and 3) requires that the airlines send TSA the Passenger Name Record information--much less info than what's on the I-94.

While I do think that Secure Flight is pointless and bad, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the info the US requires for people who are actually entering the country. In any case, you should learn more about the things you rant about.

It's not the first. It was done at the World Cup in Germany two years ago. Pictures weren't included, but personal information (name and passport number at least) was stored on chips in the tickets.

I for one am less concerned about the human rights of the visitors who have enough money to fly halfway around the world to visit the Olympics than I am about the other human rights abuses China undertakes with its own citizens.

Not necessarily as crappily made. I once visited a clothing factory in China, and the factory floor was divided into two. On one side were the low-skill girls using poor quality sewing machines churning out the cheap stuff. When they got to a certain standard they were promoted to the other side of the shop floor, got a pay rise, used better quality (western!) sewing machines and got stricter quality control. There are differences, even in stuff coming out of the same factory.

Out company provides technical support and raw materials to factories in China. Our biggest competitors provide slightly cheaper but much lower quality goods.

Our customers complain that their competitors (who are buying our competitors products) are making more money then them selling slightly cheaper but much lower quality goods, because that is what sells.

So, if people start buying better quality stuff, they will reward factories making better quality stuff. Buy the shit and you reward the shit makers.

Chinese factories don't like making low quality stuff, they really want to make better stuff. A shame that the cheap stuff sells much better.

And the Chinese are probably not actively rude to you during the entry process either, something we in the US *really* need to fix. If we're going to collect all this info from visitors, at least we should do it politely!

Amen, brother! I'm a US citizen (middle-aged White Anglo-Saxon Programmer) who occasionally travels abroad. Without exception, the US customs officials have been the rudest I've ever encountered.

<rant class="us_border_policies">I was in England at the height of the whole Mad Cow thing. When I returned to the US they distributed fliers on the plane warning us about Mad Cow, that it was a very serious thing and be sure to disclose if you've been to any place rural. The same fliers were posted all over the international terminal at O'Hare. So I fessed up to the customs guy (or is it the immigration guy? Whoever stamps your passport) that yes, I'd been hiking in rural England, I had crossed a few cow pastures, and probably trod in a cowpie or two. He just grunted(*) and waved me through. WTF?! What's the point of all the warnings if they're not going to do anything about it?</rant>

(*)And I mean that literally. He grunted. Not a single syllable of any intelligible language came out of this guy's mouth. And that brings us back to having the rudest officials in the world.

Sir (or Ma'am):

I travel quite extensively for business and pleasure to countries rich and poor, 'Eastern' and 'Western.'

I can assure you that being a foreigner visiting another country never gives you many rights, everyone keeps databases and your information is probably never really that secure.

I have applied for visas for various countries and have been shown my intelligence record for a few, including information about where I stayed in-country, who my contacts there were, and even in one case, the brand of cigarettes I smoked (quit years ago).

I do work as a journalist, so I stick out a bit more, but I can guarantee that the folks who travel all the time with big companies have equally thick files.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but only pointing out that these days, everyone plays spy games with foreign visitors.

Well I have been inside the birds nest for three events now and here are my experiences:

1st time - walked right through security. Got the magic wand treatment - they didnt take my lighter - kosher like Christmas

2nd time - Might as well have been going through a gestapo checkpoint. Literally took me five minutes of taking my entire wardrobe apart, checking my iphone, and harassing me to my obvious annoyance before I got through

3rd time - (Two nights ago) I beeped going through the metal detector - she gave me the magic wand (quite courteously) and waved me through (lighter still in my pocket)

The place is absolutely gorgeous, China will have it together and seems to be finding a middle ground to handle the huge influx they will be faced with.