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I wonder if... (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course they'd never go that route, I think. It sure would be fun to watch, though.
Re:I wonder if... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Perhaps this is part of the motivation behind Amazon's Kindle [amazon.com] device. If you're not sending something through the mail to an address in a specific state, but instead providing an electronic file to someone without any physical merchandise involved, wouldn't that mean state tax laws
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As a seller (on ebay and amazon), here is my argument against paying NY Sales Tax:
- I am not a resident of New York.
- Therefore I am not under the jurisdiction of that government (same as I am not under jurisdiction to France or Canada)
- Thus I am not an NY citizen; governments can not tax non-citizens.
So I owe the New York government absolutely nothing for my ebay/amazon sales, and I'd like to see them try to cr
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While we're more tightly knit than say, the EU, we're also a lot looser than most countries.
So it's not 100% wrong. Besides, the US constitution could be considered the original NAFTA. Tariffs between states are strictly forbidden, and indeed, this could be considered a tariff.
If I WAS amazon, I'd take it to court in that fashion. If
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That is not the issue. If a NY resident buys something they are subject to NY tax, no matter where they bought it or how it was shipped to them, by truck or by wire. The sale takes place wherever the buyer lives.
What NY wants to do is to force Amazon and others to be their tax collector, just as they do with stores physically in NY. The US Supreme Court has ruled that a seller has to be PHYSICALLY located in the state that wishes that seller t
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Close but not wholly accurate. If I buy something in Maryland, where I live, I pay SALES tax. If I drive across the border, buy in PA or DE, and then drive back, I have to pay a USE tax. Two different taxes, depending upon if the item was purchased inside or ourside of Maryland jurisdiction.
Amazon has to charge Sales tax for sales within its own state (where it has physical presence). It does not have to charge Use tax for out-of-state sales; t
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I would see the use tax as a lot more Constitutionally valid if it applied to all products used in the state. By prejudicially applying it only to imported goods, it is, in effect, nothing more than a thinly disguised way to apply sales tax on interstate commerce. While I realize a few appellate courts have upheld these blatantly unconstitutional laws, that's because of how many strict constructionalists the Republicans have packed into the courts in question. That doesn't make it remotely the right deci
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Not strictly true. The sales tax is determined by residency and state law. When I, as an Oregonian, go buy something in either CA or WA, I don't have to pay their sales taxes, since we don't have sales taxes here. In WA they make it easier than CA. In WA I can just show the merchant my Oregon ID, proving I am indeed and Oregon resident. The merchant will make note of that ID and not charge the WA sales tax. It obviously make sense to do this only f
In a realted development, Amazon to lose NYers. (Score:3, Insightful)
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As dropping those affiliates WILL cause some financial hardship, look for any problems with the law and sue to get it put down.
If that doesn't work, then go the banning route.
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If I were CEO of Amazon, I would ban affiliates because it would impact New Yorkers. If I as a resident of Indiana write to a state congressman in New York protesting this law, they won't care because I am not there. If the NY residents complain, it will carry far more impact.
Secondly, lit
The parts that offends me is (Score:5, Insightful)
The question is whether the vendors must collect those taxes on behalf of the state. Generally, only those companies that have a physical presence, such as an office or store, in the state of the purchase are required to collect the taxes.
By have a physical presence in NY, I'm deriving benefits from the state; Amazon without a physical presence in NY receives no state benefits and should not have to work as the states agent withput consideration.
Secondly
Amazon's legal obligations are dependent on the actions of a third party over which it has no contract or control. It would be like the county tax assessor telling your your property taxes will increase 25% on sunny days!
Thirdly
NY is the poster child for it's mishmash of sales tax laws, my understanding is that you can be liable for state, county, and municipal sales taxes in some places of NY, the chief obstruction to a coherrent, unified national state sales tax system is NY
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...
Thirdly
NY is the poster child for it's mishmash of sales tax laws, my understanding is that you can be liable for state, county, and municipal sales taxes in some places of NY, the chief obstruction to a coherrent, unified national state sales tax system is NY
NC works the same way in that there is a state tax + count + city.. (atleast that is the option) 99.999999~% of citys all use the same sales tax and i have only ever seen it where the city or county would lower or not charge theirs for a short time.. (that is what the used to do in some areas for back to school time before the whole state agreed one one weekend where all school supplys are tax free)
NY just likes to abuse it.. i am sure there are others states that have the same laws on the books and can
If they dump NY retailers, they lose the battle (Score:2)
As a New Yorker, I'm offended by what (legally) appears to be an unconstitutional money grab. The problem is that very, very few people declare excise tax, and if they do it is typically for under $100 in goods.
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Although they can't ban every state, would you want to risk that your state not get a piece of a pie. It might not be "the" pie, but a piece.
Probably most of the money that affiliates make is not taxed/reported, but the larger affiliates are paying income taxes on their commisions. Second, even the money that is brought into the
A few thoughts... (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think New York has the authority to do this. But I sure would like to see the supreme Court act.
One problem with sales tax is the complexity of the code. What states need to do is to create an out-of-state seller tax rate, which retailers could voluntarily choose to pay (instead of trying to figure out the specific taxing locale). It might be equal to the highest taxing rate in the state, and would be paid to the state with no locale attached to the revenue sent there. Then the state would divide the revenue up amongst their localities based on some sort of formula (perhaps based on in-state sales, for example, for percentages).
Re:A few thoughts... (Score:5, Interesting)
And this would scale to global customers, how exactly? Chinese or Swedish or maybe Australian buyers paying average-US-state sales tax on their purchases?
If something like this (the NY solution, or parent's) gets implemented for real, then online vendors will simply move out of the US to the land of the (tax-)free.
It's internet commerce. Any solution needs to be globally viable, or it will be doomed to silliness. This is also why it's going to be darn difficult to solve.
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US Constitution (Score:3, Insightful)
Basically, NY can't put a sales tax on o
Re:A few thoughts... (Score:4, Interesting)
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I've worked in a company that used to sell via the internet (and postal mail before that). It was never a big issue before the internet, but the states are imagining millions going uncollected and that gives the money-loving pols a severe case of agita. [medterms.com]
From a programming perspective, how hard is it to examine a couple of fields - country, state and zip code. All of the tax data resides in a table. The table is populated from data supplied via a subscription service - like now. Tha
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Not difficult to solve at all. No taxation on goods sold over the internet. Done. See? Wasn't that easy?
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>do this. But I sure would like to see the
>supreme Court act.
That seems iffy to me. Most of the goods I purchase at a store aren't from in state, but I still pay sales tax on them.
Just because Amazon's store is online, doesn't mean that they shouldn't have to pay the same sales tax everyone else does.
I live in Washington state, in Seattle, the same city where Amazon is based, and I already pay state sales taxes on Amazon goods.
Maybe there is some legal lo
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It would be easier just to allow the state the entity is shipping from to collect a sales tax, a closer parallel to the idea that you pay a sales tax to whatever state you (and the seller) are in when you purchase something in meatspace. Tracking sales taxes for all your buyers' states (and sometimes counties) is cumbersome, this is a far simplier option. And while it means NY doesn't get a sales tax immediately, it closes the loophole where no one pays a sales tax, a problem with all but a handful of state
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The state, in which the product originated (or where the business is headquartered), would want to collect sales tax.
The state, in which the buyer is located, would want to collect sales tax on the item shipped to one of their residents.
Ideally, I feel property taxes should deal with the origination, whereas sales tax should deal with the destination of a product.
Also, in some states, if a buyer purchases something, and no sales tax is collected, sales tax is still due, and
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They did, years ago, in the days of mail order. They decided that a seller has to have a physical presence in a given state, before that state can force them to become a tax collector for them. The Internet is nothing more than a hi-tech, more convenient mail order system.
NY Could Sue For Buyer's Addresses (Score:2, Interesting)
Also, per resident this is a very small amount, which makes it almost silly to bother reporting on your state tax return. According to the first article, " The provision is meant to contribute about $50 million to the $122 billion budget [nytimes.com]" In 2006, the population of NY state was 19,306,183 [census.gov]. By those numbers, each resident would be paying an
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Yes, you do have to keep track of all purchases you made that you didn't pay sales tax on, in particular because the transaction occurred outside the state.
From New York State Resident Income Tax Return IT-150 & IT-201 Instructions [state.ny.us] (Page 66)
When do you owe New York State and local sales or use tax?
When you make a purchase of taxable property or services
NY dialing 411 for AMZN (Score:2)
Better than the alternative (Score:2, Interesting)
New York has a problem (Score:2, Insightful)
It's called the Constitution of the United States.
In section 10...
And when we look back to section 9..
Misleading commentary (Score:3, Interesting)
The new law is based on a novel definition of what constitutes a presence in the state: It includes any Web site based in the state that earns a referral fee for sending customers to an online retailer.
It's not novel. In Zippo v. Zippo 952 F. Supp. 1119, the Court found Pennsylvania had jurisdiction over Zippo.com, a California-based company, over the fact it engaged in electronic commerce with 3,000 individuals and 7 ISPs located in Pennsylvania. In this case, Amazon is engaged in electronic commerce with numerous companies, via the referral fee, based out of New York--thus New York should have the same jurisdiction rights as Pennsylvania did.
How does that constitute a "presence?" (Score:2)
Well what about a deliver tax then? (Score:3, Interesting)
However much I dislike the taxes, I hate discrimination and government loading the dice and making the playing field slanted. The brick-and-mortar companies in New York are obligated to collect sales tax for NY. That includes you corner diner and the mom-and-pop store selling used books. There was a time when compiling 50 state sales tax codes or even 25000 local county tax codes and making businesses outside complying with these code was technologically impossible. But now that excuse is not valid anymore.
If Amazon does not have to collect the tax, none of the local businesses should have to collect the tax. If the local businesses must, then Amazon must too. It is a question of Government not playing favorites and creating walled gardens. It is not really a question of whether or not the the sales tax is fair or unfair. But I am not sure most people will see the distinction.
Loophole (Score:3, Interesting)
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Wow! You're so right, and so completely ethical! How can I help but be inspired by your rectitude? Lucky for us that huge corporations don't pull that kind of shit, or we'd be losing BILLIONS of dollars, not just a million or two here and there.
Oh, wait...
Re:The Free Ride is coming to an End (Score:4, Insightful)
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People that avoid paying taxes are actually stealing from everyone else in the State that now has to make up for the shortfall. Like it or not, it all comes down to one word - GREED.
I'm sure we'll see hundreds of posts here on how this or that is illegal or unconstitutional, but like I said - it still all boils down to GREED - gimme, gimme, gimme - In money we trust!
Some would say that it is unconstitional and a violation of the 13th Amendment [wikipedia.org] against Slavery [wikipedia.org].
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Where is Amazon.... It's a global company
Where are their affiliates
Where are their customers
They already pay taxes on what they buy to re-sell they already pay company taxes etc
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Though I grew up in the U.S., I now live in Finland, where the state actually provides services in exchange for high taxation: excellent public transportation, generous unemployment and retirement, a monthly living allowance to students, free university education, a flourishing arts scene, and so forth. Paying taxes here is actually attractive. In the U.S., where people feel increasingly out of touch with their government, suspicious of the ability of police to actually do their job, and can't count on Soci
Re:The Free Ride is coming to an End (Score:5, Insightful)
The REAL problem with collecting sales tax for online sales has nothing to do with the customer paying the state. It has EVERYTHING to do with the burden on the retailer. Do you have any idea how big a mess the sales tax system in most places is?
It can very from county to county and even from town to town in the county.
So under your system let me show you how this would work.
Any website that sells anything is going to have to register with not just EVERY STATE but every county and town. Each of them will require that you pay a fee to get your tax number... Oh joy.
Then every quarter you will have to file a few THOUSAND tax reports. One per city, county, and state.
Then you will have to have some way to decide which local gets the tax and what the rate is. Do you tax the shipping address or the billing address?
So what your plan would do is drive every small web store right out of business.
It is unconstitutional for the states to tax interstate commerce.
So your little rant is just that a rant. Do we give to many tax cuts to the very rich and big companies? Yea I think so but this has NOTHING to do with that. In this case the tax break is going right to the consumer aka the little guy.
Under your plan the burden would be on the small companies and the consumer.
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Re:Time for a VAT? (Score:4, Funny)
And we've got guns.
And we believe we should live free or die.
Just sayin'.
(Actually I have no guns, but I think all my neighbors do...)
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