New "Iron Curtain" for Russian Internet 239
Dionysius, God of Wine and Leaf, points out a story about the Russian government's interest in expanding anti-extremism laws to include the blocking of websites and ISPs. The laws would match those already in use for the country's print media. Russian internet users may soon be forced to deal with the same issues facing Chinese citizens. Quoting:
"An official at the Russian prosecutor's general office, Vyacheslav Sizov, told the Russian-language newspaper Rossiiskaya Gazeta that any web site that is determined to host what he terms 'extremist material' would be blocked from being accessible from within the Russian Federation. Given the Putin government's history with the media, 'extremist material' may be very broadly interpreted as any content unfriendly to the interests of the Russian government."
Been done before (Score:5, Insightful)
Democracy did win right? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know how yet, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, I'm American and I think the Bush Administration is one of the likely targets of such an effort.
We have the Internet, it is free, information flows around the globe. For all the faults that might bring it has been hailed as an equalizer and liberator of peoples all over the globe. Freedom of information is the basis of the good inside an OLPC.
FTFA:
In times past it was said that Monarchy's that do not hang together will 'hang' separately. I think that time has not changed this at all, and many of the so called republics are merely facades for the ruling classes to hide behind.
Wow, that sounded a bit socialist or something, but I truly think that the Internet has the power to change things for the better. If the Russian people are unable to, perhaps we outside of Russia should make our voices known and heard.
Does anyone have any ideas?
Re:Democracy did win right? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Democracy did win right? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Been done before (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds like America. Despite all the hoopla about freedom and whatnot in america, there is substantial indoctrination i.e. any mention of helping others gets you labelled a 'socialist' or a 'commie'. IMHO America is probably one of THE most indoctrinated societies in the world at the moment. You can't have a discussion about much with a large percentage of people about certain topics.
Re:Been done before (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Another anti russian hysteria (Score:3, Insightful)
P.S. I just followed up an "in Russia" clause with a statement in normal order. What is Slashdot coming to?
Re:I don't know how yet, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a better idea. How about we just realize that people need to sort their own shit out? The best you can possibly do is elect a government that realizes that it isn't going to beat another nation into submission with rhetoric. If the west wants to do anything for the poor huddled masses of all the oppressed people around the world, it should happily and merrily jump in to help fledgling democracies, reward leaders who bring about democratic change, make some vague attempt to hold a little moral high ground, and serve as example and rewarder.
Tongue lashing Putin is a waste of breath. Words are worth their weight in gold. The best thing to do is give Russia a pat on the head, a hug, and a wad of cash when they do right, and wait for a less drunk and incompetent Yeltsin to appear to bring Russia back to something closer to a democracy.
Re:Democracy did win right? (Score:2, Insightful)
For most people basic survival of their kids and family comes first. Democracy -a distant second.
Sounds like America? (Score:3, Insightful)
Please, confirm for the record, that it is your belief, one or more generations of Americans have grown up behind an 'iron curtain' unable to get information from an outside source.
Thank you.
Re:Sounds like America? (Score:5, Insightful)
By being able to obtain the will of the people without having to close-off outside info, you've achieved much more than just simple censorship. It's much worse. It's willful ignorance, and THAT'S the scariest of all.
Re:Been done before (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Been done before (Score:2, Insightful)
US and Europe not far behind (Score:3, Insightful)
The EU just passed a resolution making it illegal to publish "terrorist propaganda" [arstechnica.com], even though the actual definitions are quite vague. That vagueness is incredibly broad:
While the United States must continue its vigilant efforts to combat international terrorism, it must also strengthen efforts to combat the threat posed by homegrown terrorists based and operating within the United States."
Re:Been done before (Score:4, Insightful)
The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population, but it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners [nytimes.com].
I think if I lived in a place with that rate of imprisonment, I'd be keeping my head down and avoiding controversy too.
Re:Sounds like America? (Score:5, Insightful)
Conceptually, the strategy of having a vocal "mainstream media" that labels anyone outside of a narrow political range as a "crazy extremist" can be even more powerful as an indoctrination tool than an "iron curtain". In the USSR, everyone knew that the news was all government propaganda. In the USA today, most people believe in the "free press".
Re:Been done before (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sounds like America? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Been done before (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Been done before (Score:1, Insightful)
This is utter bullshit, no one will call you a socialist or commie for helping another person. What you are referring to is an issue of what the government should be responsible for. The U.S. national government was originally formed as a means to regulate relations between states and to protect the states. It was not designed to take care of individuals. The more responsibility you pile on top of the national government the less individual's opinions matter. That's what state and local governments are for. If you get called a socialist or commie because you want something like universal free health care, that has nothing to do with you wanting to help others and everything to do with you wanting the national government to help others for you.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Been done before (Score:4, Insightful)
I know Bashing America at every change is fun and profitable, but you could at least get the story straight first. I mean with all the valid reasons to Bash America, you have to go and basically make something up.
Re:Been done before (Score:2, Insightful)
I agree that the rate of imprisonment in the US is disturbing, but with the exception of The War on Altered States of Consciousness the US doesn't tend to lock people up for crimes that could be interpreted as self-expression. As the NY Times article points out, the main reason for the high prison population in the US is harsh sentencing - people aren't being convicted for things that are legal elsewhere (again, with the exception of drugs), but once they're convicted they are being imprisoned for longer.
Re:Been done before (Score:3, Insightful)
That would make sense if you could simply divide the population into criminals and non-criminals. Unfortunately it's not that simple - people move between the two categories. So when judging whether a particular method of punishment works, we need to ask three questions:
1) Does it keep criminals off the streets?
2) Does it dissuade non-criminals from becoming criminals?
3) Does it persuade criminals to become non-criminals?
Prison does well on the first test, and fairly well on the second (although the worst offenders don't respond to deterrents [newscientist.com]). But it fails the third test: criminals released from prison in the UK have a higher reoffending rate than those given community sentences [homeoffice.gov.uk]. That's why judges are reluctant to impose a prison sentence for a first offence: once you've gone to prison, you're likely to keep going back.
Re:Been done before (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Does it keep criminals off the streets?
2) Does it dissuade non-criminals from becoming criminals?
3) Does it persuade criminals to become non-criminals?
You forgot the most important one:
0. Should they even be considered a criminal in the first place ?
Re:Sounds like America? (Score:5, Insightful)
By being able to obtain the will of the people without having to close-off outside info, you've achieved much more than just simple censorship. It's much worse. It's willful ignorance, and THAT'S the scariest of all.
I think the converse is also true - provided a society as a whole is happy that it has the next three meals coming, it will continue in its own status quo and is safe from revolution. It follows that most people will not seek out challenge the status quo.
I'll tell you which societies will change first - regardless of how indoctrinated they are. It'll be in those areas where peoples' wages barely cover buying food already. The worldwide increase in food costs will hit them first, and hardest. I wouldn't be too surprised to see another round of communist governments get in, subsidising staples like rice but letting everything else in the country go to hell.
Interestingly, the list of countries affected will very likely include at least a few places where it's possible to get decent Internet access but wages are very low - just the kind of place that things get outsourced to. Hmmm.
Re:Been done before (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Been done before (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Been done before (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Been done before (Score:3, Insightful)
If the people are aware of censorship, that's a vital piece of information, and if one wants information badly enough, (s)he will get it, especially with the technology in the last decade.
However, if one simply believes that information given to him/her is free and unbiased, (s)he will never seek other perspectives and probably will dismiss any other views that conflicts with his/hers.
This willful ignorance can be even more dangerous in some situations. For the person who's aware of censorship, to reason with him you simply present him with the missing information. For the willful ignorant, no amount of evidence will convince him that maybe, perhaps, the things he believed in was wrong.
Of course in countries with heavy censorship there are people who's willfully ignorant of opposing views, but in a supposedly "free" country I think it's just easier to fall into that trap.
Re:Been done before (Score:3, Insightful)
I never said the original culture was replaced. Rather, a vacuum is left and we find country after country with a youth that has become hedonistic, shallow, selfish, consumerist and unhappy.
But that's not a bad thing if you want to make money from those people. They make great customers.
Re:Been done before (Score:3, Insightful)
However, when you want to use my resources to help others, then I will call you a socialist. It is my decision how I use my resources (money, property, time). The fact is that those most opposed to using tax dollars to help others are the ones most likely to use their own money to help others.
Re:Been done before (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Been done before (Score:3, Insightful)
"Do governments create legislation as a way to increase control on it's population or to actually maintain social peace?"
Getting a $100-$200 ticket for burning a red light(which can kill) vs a $750 fine per song for downloading "illegal" MP3s (which doesn't kill anyone) seems rather unfair.
Re:or rather (Score:3, Insightful)
If you look at American prisons you'll find they're not filled with corrupt officials. It's mostly petty street criminals that are given excessively long sentences due to "3 strikes", mandatory minimums, and elimination of parole.