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Your Identity Is Worth Less Than $15 178

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "One of the more interesting tidbits in Symantec's Global Internet Threat Report (PDF, 105 pages) is the price sheet, which suggests that someone's 'full identity' is worth in the range of $1-$15. Your email password goes for $4-$30 and your bank account might fetch $10-$1000. With those prices, I wonder how often they pay more for the bank account than is actually in it? There's also an executive summary (PDF, 36 pages)."
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Your Identity Is Worth Less Than $15

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  • No way! (Score:5, Funny)

    by moezaly ( 1197755 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:16AM (#23011278)
    Of course this article is wrong. Just look at how much all these politicians care about us.
    • Apples and oranges.
      These data are about what you saved in the past, and have in the present.
      WRT entitlements at least, politicians are
      • all about what can be siphoned from you in the future
      • skimming a percentage from across all of society (modulo those rich enough to put their cash elsewhere, mind you) and not just wrecking individuals
      • telling you "we're taking this from you for your own good, because it's Teh Right Thing To Do"

      If only the 10th Amendment still had any teeth.

      • If only the 10th Amendment still had any teeth.

        Who cares? It is all imaginary property anyway. Even the article's submitter does not believe in it...

    • how do you find sellers? I want to sell my bank account info fro $1000.
      • by LordEd ( 840443 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @10:40AM (#23012772)
        Just post your account info here and we'll deposit the $1000.
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I know you are modded funny, but other people do this. They are basically used as money launderers to transfer funds through. Because of this, the price of your account is more than what you actually have in it. A few minutes with google is all it takes to find places to sell...
      • With those prices, I wonder how often they pay more for the bank account than is actually in it?

        how do you find sellers? I want to sell my bank account info fro $1000.

        1) Never
        2) GFL

        The price is directly related to how much money is in the account. Big accounts are $1000 (you can't just sell the money because it needs to be laundered and obfuscated- you need to have a trick to get the money out of the account, basically).
        People who sell bank accounts aren't dumb- they've just dumbed down the process; and if
    • Now that the US government as gone amok, it is not such a bad condition to be able to buy a new identity for $20. Say that you have signed a petition or participated in an anti-war action. You get arrested in a sweep and fined $100 for whatever the charge is that your local police use against demonstrators.

      But it doesn't end there. Chances are that some flagwaving dickhead fascist in 'Homeland Security' puts your name on a terrorist-do-not-fly list. It will stay there forever along with a million other
      • Chances are that some flagwaving dickhead fascist in 'Homeland Security' puts your name on a terrorist-do-not-fly list. It will stay there forever along with a million other people who have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. You can't ever get your name off the list.

        Sounds scary and all, but I don't see it happening, nor do the people who post this stuff ever cite real examples of it happening. My Father-in-Law has a very common name, that also happens to be on some TSA watch list. He gets questioned for about an extra five seconds compared to everyone else.

      • So the ability to purchase a new 'clean' identity inexpensively becomes attractive since it allows you to get on with your daily life with the least amount of extortion from the authorities.
        This passport is a cheap forgery! A cheap $2,000 forgery!
        -- Apu Nahassapeemapetilan, "Much Apu About Nothing"
  • by adpsimpson ( 956630 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:16AM (#23011282)

    So when the British government introduce their fantastic, shiney, new, biometric, uhackable ID card system, can we get them to buy our ID off us?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Nursie ( 632944 )
      That got me thinking - fingerprint checks, what if you fail and then say "but I cut my finger, it's still healing"?

      And that got me thinking further, if they're needed for medical care, what happens to people who do cut their fingers?

      Hmmm.
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        You'd have to seriously hurt yourself to disable this biometric:
        http://www.fujitsu.com/global/casestudies/WWW2_casestudy_BTM.html [fujitsu.com]
        • by Yokaze ( 70883 )
          Or you make a backup [slashdot.org].
        • Not to doubt this study, but I think it must depend heavily on the technology of the reader itself. As a diabetic that pricks their finger often, I can tell you that the "dots" that appear on the fingerprint image (more on the electronic ones than the ink ones) have messed up my acces at more than one client. This includes a good deal of banking and Federal clients. My FBI background check has been rejected electronically at multiple clients and they requested ink prints because of the "dots" left by my fin
        • You'd have to seriously hurt yourself to disable this biometric
          I don't know about you, but I find that the people who have seriously hurt themselves need medical care the most. It seems kind of silly to have an identification system that doesn't work in cases where it could be the most use.
      • they treat you but don't let you go until your finger has healed or you can pay, if you can't pay they take a kidney on deposit against a loan to pay it back!
    • Either that or once they get as close to their "unhackable" pipe dream as possible we'll all be forced to pay hundreds of GB£ to ensure that it's protected properly specifically so that our identity isn't sold for $15 or less.
    • Forget the British government. I printed my name and address on slips of paper so that when store clerks ask me for my phone number or address I can just offer to sell it to them for $2 taken off the cost of my purchase. I figure that they can get it anyway off the credit card companies, but $2 is probably cheaper. I never got anything but strange looks and "I can't do that" as a response. They don't seem to see the irony.

      -- PS. Don't forget to check out the new season of the Sarah Connor Chronicles th
  • by allcar ( 1111567 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:17AM (#23011290)
    Whilst I am sure identity theft is a very real problem, I'm not sure I want Symantec to be my source of information about it. They have done more to reduce internet security than most, with bloated, unusable virus checkers that people end up simply disabling. Furthermore, there is a pretty obvious marketing angle to all of this.
    • by AndGodSed ( 968378 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:23AM (#23011338) Homepage Journal
      Yes. You said what I wanted - why should I trust the people who gave us Norton with my internet safety?
    • by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @09:36AM (#23012010) Homepage
      [Symantec has] " done more to reduce internet security than most, with bloated, unusable virus checkers..."

      Whenever I encounter a computer with Symantec software installed, I uninstall it before doing anything else. My experience with Symantec is that the company's software is VERY buggy.

      "Furthermore, there is a pretty obvious marketing angle to all of this."

      Having insecurity is profitable for Microsoft, anti-malware software companies, and weapons investors like Cheney and Bush. It's a simple business model:

      1) Do evil.

      2) Profit!
      • Can you tell me the secret to getting Norton off a Windows computer?
        Live Updater, AV, FW and all the other bits seem to have their own dependency hell that won't let you uninstall in any order, and when you do finally get out the Knoppix CD and registry editor you're left with a system that looks like it has just had the worst virus of them all run rampant through it.

        I long ago started recommending a reinstall if someone had Norton slowing their computer down.
        • Can you tell me the secret to getting Norton off a Windows computer?

          Any Linux distro install disk???

          Oh, sorry. I guess you meant to have, to such an extent as is possible, a working copy of Windows after you're finished.

      • [Symantec has] " done more to reduce internet security than most, with bloated, unusable virus checkers..."

        I suppose there is some grain of truth to this but it's a bit extreme to go that far. Symantec does have competitors and those competitors would have taken over if Symantec was really that bad. There are commercial offerings like MacAfee and Sophos (for institutional use) and there is at least one open source offering - ClamAV. I recently participated in a review of antivirus software at my employ

    • by Kazrath ( 822492 )
      Anytime I read a post like this where a person "Hates" Symantec because of optional software they received on their DELL/HP etc it makes me quickly realize you probably do not belong on /. You are indicating your only experiance with a vendor is their consumer grade software which is designed to be bloated because stupid end users like bells & whistles. What ever happened to building your own PC and putting what you want on it? Are you lazy or incapable?

      The majority of Symantecs software and revenue
      • Maybe Symantec should take heed, then. If the majority of the people who see symantec software see buggy crap, what does that say about their reputation as a whole? I also dispute your claims about consumer level vs. corporate stuff - the only real gradient I've found on features vs. quality is consumer vs. pro (that being CAD/Design/DV editing). Corporate stuff can be just as ugly and fad driven as Dell shovelware.
  • by BadAnalogyGuy ( 945258 ) <BadAnalogyGuy@gmail.com> on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:18AM (#23011300)
    a bank account might fetch $10-$1000. With those prices, I wonder how often they pay more for the bank account than is actually in it?

    How much do you assume the average person has in their bank accounts? I realize that living at home with your parents and not having to pay for rent, utilities, food, and clothes may allow you to skate by with a very low monthly balance, but the vast majority of people who work for a living have to have the cash on hand (in their checking account, anyway) to pay for all these necessities.

    But I don't suppose someone whose name is "I don't believe in imaginary property" would have a very solid grasp of the real world.
    • by IBBoard ( 1128019 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:35AM (#23011430) Homepage
      It depends which account. I'm 18 months out of University, have finally got on to the housing ladder (which isn't easy in the UK with stupidly inflated house prices), and am supporting myself, my wife, and soon a baby as well. We've got more than that in one of our bank accounts. Granted, it isn't our Current Account (which I assume is what the Americans call their Checking Account because they write their cheques from it), but it's still an account with more money than that in.

      But as someone else mentioned, they probably want them for laundering rather than emptying.
    • by WiglyWorm ( 1139035 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:41AM (#23011484) Homepage
      Do you know how many people in America live paycheck to paycheck?

      Quite a few people have bank balances that hover between the grand total of their most recent paycheck and $0. Or don't they count?
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by socz ( 1057222 )
        Having worked as a teller for the 3rd largest bank in the world at the time, it's pretty surprising to see how little money people have.

        I then moved up to merchant teller and saw that businesses weren't really that much better. People will usually brag about how much money they have, but what you really need to get out of them is the last 3 month average or the account average, and then you'll get to the meat of the problem.

        Most people have very little, i would say $500 average is HIGH.

        But if y
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by MMC Monster ( 602931 )
      Should be an interesting poll:
      How much money do you have in your (checking+savings) bank accounts?
      1. 12 paychecks
    • No one with a financial brain keeps any substantial amount of money in bank accounts.

      Any emergency savings you have should be held in money market accounts or short / medium term GICs.

      Smart people let their money work for them.

      I have an OK job, few debits, and no kids - and I *NEVER* have more than $100 cash in my bank account at any time. I pay for everything with credit card to accumulate points and/or cash back, and pay it in full every month, and the surplus goes into retirement funds and money market a
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Don't you remember just 8 years ago? Stocks are a gamble, nothing more. Like any other casino, you will eventually lose your cash.

        My extra money goes into a 4% savings account. I can get it any time with 24 hours notice. Yeah, yeah, I can get 10% on the stock market. Sounds great, until it crashes - again or you get caught in a bad trade.

        I tend to keep about a thousand in my chequing account. (Which works out to ... calculating ... a "loss" of about 50 cents a month compared to the parent putting his on t
    • by unlametheweak ( 1102159 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @09:09AM (#23011730)

      ...but the vast majority of people who work for a living have to have the cash on hand
      Ever look at discarded bank slips from ATM's? I have on occasion, and if it is any indication, most people rarely have more than $1000 dollars in their bank accounts. Or are you assuming the average person is a (relatively) high paid professional that doesn't have a mortgage, car, kids, etc? And people who do have any amount of money probably don't keep it in a bank account but in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, treasury bills, etc.
      • That may well be because people with more money have are less likely to discard their slips, and to withdraw more money. I'm not inclined to leave pieces of paper around that indicate I have a large sum of money easily available. I also withdraw the full available amount, as opposed to $20-40 at a time, which is what I tend to see on those discarded slips.

        Point being that the sample is likely misrepresentative.
        • I agree with all your points. The point about the sample possibly being "misrepresentative" is a matter for debate, and by that I mean we don't really know how representative it is (to an average bank account user). I have already taken for granted that my point is not scientific (but more philosophical in nature). I do wonder how representative this anecdotal evidence is however. It is just a thought that I wanted to pass on to other readers.

          Best regards,

          UTW
      • by RadioElectric ( 1060098 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @11:17AM (#23013252)
        That's because you're looking at the slips from people who don't give enough of a shit to keep them.
    • Well, first, an account is probably still useful if there's less in the account -- and in the real world, people apparently do often have less than $1k in the account.

      And second, it's probably a lot less risky to sell information about a bank account -- even to obtain such information -- than to actually clean the money out. We can do all sorts of tricks on the Internet to make ourselves hard to trace, and with a sufficiently large, sufficiently decentralized botnet, it could pretty much be impossible. But
  • by dave1791 ( 315728 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:20AM (#23011318)
    From TFA - "Bank accounts were the most commonly advertised item for sale on underground economy servers known to Symantec"

    I'm curious as to where this data came from. Is it public record from court cases? Or does Symantec know more than the cops?
    • From what I have heard, news reports, the numbers came from various sites and chat channels where the items are for sale.
  • is not so much what the identity is "worth", but rather how easy it is to steal. If your identity is going for say, $6 "retail", then it must have been very easy to steal for them to sell it and turn a buck at that price, especially considering the additional business risk. Hey that's lunch at McDonalds.

    The reality is probably placing greater value on the actual identity and the money that can be scammed from it, it's just that there are so many identity thieves out there and it's so easy to do, that the
    • Or that demand is relatively low for the stolen IDs. The financial institutions are getting quite savvy about detecting and preventing fraudulent transactions. My CC number got stolen two weeks ago. The bank detected the bad transactions within 4 hours and shut the card down. I didn't lose a dime. That's Bank Of America, for anyone who cares.
    • From TFA
      Full identities: Full identities may consist of name, address, date of birth, phone number, and Social Security number. It may also include extras such as driverâ(TM)s license number, motherâ(TM)s maiden name,email address, or âoesecretâ questions/answers.

      i.e. The kind of information a lot of people freely give away all the time that's why it's worth so little ....

      • by v1 ( 525388 )
        This has been awhile ago, but my grandmother wanted to get a credit card. This was her first. The application asked her to write down her SSN. In the generation she was brought up in, they hammered into you that you should only give this number to three people: your bank, the IRS, and your employer.

        They went round and round for well over an hour. (this was a local store's card) Finally they determined that she was correct and they could not demand her ssn. So they had to dig into their books and call t
        • I have no idea how that process works now, that's been about 15 yrs ago, but I assume the same laws are still in place, but I'd wonder in cases like that if you refuse to give your ssn, if they can just refuse to do business with you, or if they are legally required to offer an alternative to turning over your ssn?

          Are there more than just those three now? I thought for awhile your ssn was also on your driver's license, tho mine is not now.

          They are never obligated to do business with you, although utilities may have different rules.

  • by rodney dill ( 631059 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:24AM (#23011352) Journal
    1. Open lots of bank accounts
    2. Sell them
    3. Profit

    (It'd be funnier if it didn't sound so plausible)
  • honeypot identities (Score:5, Interesting)

    by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:25AM (#23011362)
    what should be done is for banks to work together with law enforcement and create a bunch of fake identities with flags on them that when used it automatically notifies the police and sends all information to the police (photos, fingerprints & whatever else)...
    • by Nullav ( 1053766 )
      But wouldn't the banks also require fake stupid people to fall for 419 scams and the like?
  • by antifoidulus ( 807088 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:28AM (#23011376) Homepage Journal
    to money launderers. If someone has an empty, neglected bank account they will probably be much less likely to report suspicious activity on it. A fraudster could use the account to have various payments for spam, cracking etc. put into the bank account, then he could make an ATM card linked to that account and draw the money without ever having to use his own name or even go through the trouble of creating a fake identity.
    • to money launderers. If someone has an empty, neglected bank account they will probably be much less likely to report suspicious activity on it.

      But, the bank is also more likely to flag it for suspicious activity simply because it has been sitting empty and idle and now is suddenly doing all sorts of things.

      I just bought a new camera on-line a few weeks ago. To the best of my credit card issuer's knowledge, I've not really made a habit of buying things on-line (which I haven't), let alone spendy cameras.

  • by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:33AM (#23011418)
    Your Identity Is Worth Less Than $15

    (checks bank balance...)

    Yeah, that's about right...*sigh*...
    • Hmm, though in many really sad parts of the world your *life* is worth less than 50c, so you are still doing fine. At least you have both a bank account and your life.
  • by MongooseCN ( 139203 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:41AM (#23011482) Homepage
    Check out page 3 of the executive summary. In Jan-Jun of 07, they found that 89% of web vulnerabilities were in ActiveX plugins in IE. 1% of vulnerabilities were in Mozilla extensions.

    I think we have a clear winner here...
  • by unlametheweak ( 1102159 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:42AM (#23011494)
    From the title:

    Your Identity Is Worth Less Than $15
    Wrong! My identity is priceless. And try telling some-one that (their identity is worth $15.00) who can't get a security clearance, a car loan, a job, etc. because their "identity" has been abused by some asshat junkie.

    My bank account, however, is another matter; nothing gained nothing lost :P
    • To you, your identity may be priceless. To me, your identity is worth less than $15 because that's how much I'm willing to pay for it and how much I can get it for.
  • If your bank account can clear a 6-figure check, then the ability to access that money must be worth more than 1k, right?
  • by idontgno ( 624372 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:47AM (#23011552) Journal

    Who steals my purse, steals trash; 'tis something,
    nothing;
    'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to
    thousands:
    But he that filches from me my good name
    Robs me of about 15 bucks.

  • I smell profit ! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ihlosi ( 895663 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @08:53AM (#23011586)
    1. Open bank account.


    2. Sell account information.


    3. Close bank account.


    Repeat.

    • by mgblst ( 80109 )
      Buy cheap bank accounts

      cash a lot of dodgey cheques/ use for money laundering/ donate to republicans

      withdraw money

      profit
    • 1. Open bank account.
      2. Sell account information.
      3. Close bank account.
      Repeat.

      4. Receive calls from police re: fraudulent activity linked to your bank accounts.
      5. Receive visit from FBI re: money laundering in your bank accounts.
      6. Receive audit from SEC re: stock purchases linked your accounts in a stock-pumping scam.
      7. Receive long sentence from federal judge.
      8. Receive anniversary gift from your prison boyfriend Bubba.
      Repeat.

  • your bank account might fetch $10-$1000
    Well its good to know those trying to steal my bank account won't make a profit!
  • What'd be the source for the price list?
    Are those guys into this market?
  • by Jason Levine ( 196982 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @09:54AM (#23012224) Homepage
    When apparently you can just dumpster dive behind your local bank [connpost.com] to get all the bank accounts you would ever need?
    • by mozkill ( 58658 )
      what kind of bank doesn't lock up their garbage? personally I have never heard of a bank that isn't careful with their trash. that article is hard to believe. if it is true, its probably the last bank in the country to do so.
      • Given that the guy filmed himself pulling the records out of the trash, the fact that the police confiscated boxes of the records from him, and the fact that he didn't work in a bank (or have other access to the records), I think that the dumped in the trash explanation is true. It makes me wonder how many other banks give lip service to keeping customer records secure and then dump sensitive papers in the trash figuring no one would find out. It was probably a "cost saving" measure by some idiot middle m
    • Why dumpster dive if you can pay some guy $30 per account information to dumpster dive for you? Do you think the criminal mastermind himself is going to get his dumb ass caught in the bank dumpster?
  • by twotommylong ( 794494 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @09:57AM (#23012266)
    "With those prices, I wonder how often they pay more for the bank account than is actually in it? "

    It's not just the funds the fraudsters are after... They are after 3 things:

    1) Once you have a bank account, you capacity in the laundering pipeline. With the $10,000 detection threshholds, and the other AML (anti-money laundering) requirements, it takes a lot more bank Xfers to multiple parallel accounts to move money between the point of fraud, to the point of safe harbor. ACH-IN.... ACH-OUT. These are often 'mule' accounts to allow a network of smaller transfers that allow a larger aggregate money movement. Since I have 30-90 days before you notice all these $1-9000 xfers going in and out of your account... I need to constantly get new bank accounts to keep my laundering pipeline at full 'bandwidth.' If I'm lucky, I can pull a change of (email) address on you, so I can completely control the account for a small period of time (NOTE: address change just got 'red flagged' by the US FACT act of 2003... so in addition to Patriot Act reviews at account opening... address changes will (mandatory by all financial institutions by Nov 2008) be audited by regulators to verify the organization did due diligence to check for fraudulent activity).

    2) Having a Bank Account makes opening a PayPal, a credit card, a stock trading or another bank account all the easier. All of these are much more lucrative, and they can leverage funds (margin, credit) , and if I open them, there is much less chance of detection by you (since I completely control the contact information). This is classic identity theft ("Officer, I don't have a bank account in the Outer Antilles!")

    3) if we get lucky, you got cash... which we'll use in a leverage scam (open a stock account, and seed a pumpNdump).
    • At least with my bank account, you'd likely be noticed same day unless you somehow manage to yank my login for it as well. And that would generate a call to my bank to restore access, and a visit to the local branch if that didn't work.
  • $1-$15 for a full identity?

    At those prices maybe I can finally afford to upgrade mine!

  • I imagine the accounts very rarely have a higher balance than the cost of obtaining them. Their value as a mechanism for money laundering, however, far outweighs the loss due to the actual account balance.
  • by petes_PoV ( 912422 ) on Wednesday April 09, 2008 @10:33AM (#23012680)
    So my email address is worth between $4 and $30. Excellent - I can afford to retire now.

    If you know someone (hell, anyone) who pays this kinda ca$h, please let me know. With my own domain I can create email addresses indefintely, and at $30 each it's literally printing money.

    Now, of course if the reality was that spammers pay a tiny fraction of a cent per address then it's less worth my while (but could still be worth knocking together a script for).

    Which option strikes you as most likely? Yes, thought so.

    In similar news, my password is worth money too? Really? My password is "chocolate" - that'll be another couple of $$ please (feel free to sell it on yourself, too).

    Now, I'll just sit back and wait for all the SPAM^H^H^H^Hmoney to start rolling in. Hmmmm, I think I just burned out my irony circuits.

  • your bank account might fetch $10-$1000. With those prices, I wonder how often they pay more for the bank account than is actually in it?

    You assume the sole purpose is to empty the bank account. It most probably isn't. There are more interesting scams that you can play with a bank account that's not traceable to you, that are worth more than the contents of most accounts. Even if it's "just" stealing the money in the account, you assume it's all done in a hit-and-run manner. Why assume that? Would you notice if, say, $20 were taken from your account every month? If someone spends 5 minutes looking at your typical account movements, he shoul

  • Credit Freeze (Score:2, Interesting)

    All the more reason to put a freeze on all of 3B reporting agencies. Since Nov 1 2007, everyone is entitled to it.
    It cost $10 for each credit reporting agency and well worth it. Unlike LifeLock which only puts a fraud alert on your credit reports every 90 days (you could do this yourself for free), a freeze is exactly that. No accounts can be opened without a pin number given to you by the one of the 3 Bs. Each agency is different, some require 3 days to thaw your report, while others allow you to specify w

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