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Censorship Your Rights Online

The Cuban Memory Stick Underground 427

circletimessquare writes "The NyTimes has an aticle describing how students and others in Cuba have taken to passing around media on memory sticks, as this is the only way they can get around state-controlled media. Also driving this phenomenon is the fact that there are so few places to get on the Internet. In Old Havana there is only one Internet cafe; getting online there for an hour costs 1/3 of the average Cuban's monthly wages. Local entrepreneurs get the memory sticks from European friends, since they are scarce to find in Cuba through normal channels, and expensive."
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The Cuban Memory Stick Underground

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  • Re:sneakernet (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Hatta ( 162192 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @03:57PM (#22667018) Journal
    Sounds like an opportunity for propagandizing. Take a few thousand cheap USB keys, fill them with american media, put them in a water tight enclosure and drop them off outside cuban waters.
  • by nedburns ( 1238162 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @03:57PM (#22667020)
    But.. but.. I thought Cuba is a utopian society with perfect free healthcare that the rest of the world should aspire to emulate!? ( see movies by fat slobs who don't know what they're talking about [imdb.com] )
  • by damburger ( 981828 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:07PM (#22667168)

    Because there are no capitalist counter-revolutionaries in Cuba of course.

    What always amuses me is that people decry the reactionary left-wing government of Cuba without seeing it in the wider context of the history of Latin America and the Caribbean in the 20th century, during which the US made a point of launching vicious attacks on every progressive left-wing government in the hemisphere by organising strikes, spreading propaganda, sponsoring coups and terrorists, and occasionally direct military force. The repression of the Cuban regime is a result of a Darwinian process that has weeded out every left-wing government in the region that didn't shoot or imprison anyone and everyone who even might be on the CIA payroll.

    Yeah, the Castro brothers aren't exactly nice to those who disagree with them - but thanks to the actions of America there is literally no way their social programmes could've been implemented if they were not prepared to run the country as a dictatorship. Western democracies such as Britain have reacted in a similar way when faced with extreme outside threats.

  • by andyfrommk ( 1021405 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:08PM (#22667182) Homepage
    We should donate our old memory sticks to them, I've got a 128mb mp3 player which is worthless to westerners but could be of use to people in the third world to dissemenate information.
  • by The End Of Days ( 1243248 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:12PM (#22667230)
    And a choice of presidential candidates just one behind the US as well.
  • by KillerCow ( 213458 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:12PM (#22667236)
    Riiight... because Cuba can't defend its own sovereignty [cnn.com]. If it was that easy, don't you think that the Americans would have invaded by now [wikipedia.org]?
  • Nowhere in "Sicko" did Moore imply that Cuba was a utopian society. If anything, the exterior shots in Cuba should show how their clinging to communism (not to mention the US embargoes) have caused extreme poverty among most Cubans.

    With that said, it's hard to deny that Cuba is doing some things right in regards to their healthcare system. For example, according to both the UN & the CIA world factbook, Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the United States does. (See list of countries by infant mortality rate on Wikipedia for a full list.) That, despite the extreme discrepancies in GDP, per capita income, etc., between the two countries.
  • by Scareduck ( 177470 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:18PM (#22667322) Homepage Journal
    The real problem I had with Moore's citing of Cuba is that we have no idea how good their official statistics are. Also, if anyone is getting shafted by their medical system, was there any real chance of Moore -- or any outsider, for that matter -- finding out about it?
  • by perlchild ( 582235 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:26PM (#22667420)
    1) they are harder to hide(bigger)
    2) that's 100$ in the US, not how much it is in Cuba
  • by GreatBunzinni ( 642500 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:26PM (#22667426)
    About 16 years ago, in a time of floppy disks, 486s and joysticks, I also was a part of such a network. Media such as the anarchist cookbook and all kinds of software were passed around by hand through packs of floppy disks from one person to another, spreading through everyone.

    Mind you, that took place in a western european country, a free country with freedom of expression as best as the world could muster. Yet, that network, which TFA tries to label as a sign of subversive actions against a government went ahead anyway. How could that be?

    The thing is, that has absolutely nothing to do with dissent or trying to overthrow any government. People form data sharing networks because they want to share data. With the internet we belong to multiple P2P networks. Before that we had FTPs. Before that we had BBS. If there is no electronic network available then that doesn't stop anyone. Instead of a computer network, people networks are formed. Nowadays, instead of floppy disks or even CD-RWs we have USB mass storage devices such as flash drives.

    So quite simply the article is nothing more than yet another piece of anti-Cuba propaganda. Just because there are people in Cuba sharing media around does that mean that they do it with subversive intentions in mind? If you fire up your FTP client does it mean that you are also trying to overthrow your country's government? What about your USB drive? And what about SD cards? What a rebellion.
  • by MightyYar ( 622222 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:26PM (#22667436)

    Riiight... because Cuba can't defend its own sovereignty.
    I don't think you are suggesting that Cuba's defenses are capable of defending the island against invasion by the US... if you are, that would be silly. The Bay of Pigs was not a US invasion, though it did have financial support from the US. Had there been some kind of active military support, they might have stood a chance.

    In any event, they haven't even tried to kick the Americans out of Gitmo.

    If it was that easy, don't you think that the Americans would have invaded by now?
    No, because part of the deal ending the Cuban Missile Crisis was a promise to the Soviets not to invade.
  • the cuban government is clearly more authoritarian than the us government, on most every measure, according to most any observer (try the great neocon fortresses of human rights watch and amnesty international), by a large order of magnitude

    but then you have some people such as yourself, due to hating the usa's tactics in fighting cuba, or in thinking the idea to defeat cuba is not to fight it, or with a laundry list of cold war and colonial era grievances... that it all somehow means that the point here is to prosecute the usa, rather than the clearly worse government: cuba

    how does this convoluted kind of thinking present itself? on the subject matter of the evils cuba does, we should... drum roll please... prosecute the usa. the clear enemy of cuba!

    (smacks forehead)

    how does this work in some people's minds? that the usa gets prosecuted for what its bitter enemies do?

    various internet ideologues: fine. you win. the usa sucks. fuck the usa. rah rah rah! the usa is evil! blah blah blah. whatever! i don't care: be my guest, hate the usa, you go on with your bad selves

    but in your effort to hate and prosecute the usa, how do you get anywhere in that passion of yours by forgiving regimes which, right now, in the PRESENT TIME, are doing clearly worse than the usa, ON THE SUBJECT MATTER YOU SAY IS IMPORTANT, such as freedom of expression?

    i can never understand this kind of thinking

    again, someone please explain to me: how on the subject matter of the bad things the usa's bitter enemies do, does the usa gets all the hate?

    it just blows my mind how that is possible in someone's mind. you present them with evidence of usa's enemies doing truly vile things, and their reply is to hate the usa

    it blows my mind how this kind of thinking works
  • by rucs_hack ( 784150 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:34PM (#22667598)
    Micheal Moore only spoke about their health care system, not the other social problems.

    Mind you, with decent free health care, they have something fundamentally good that Americans don't, and the way things are going, never will have.

    How many people in the US can't change jobs because of losing health insurance if they do?

    I have known a few myself, doesn't seem either fair or pleasant.
  • nonsense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Quadraginta ( 902985 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:43PM (#22667800)
    This bullshit urban legend about the "low" infant mortality rate in the US has got to stop.

    The reason the infant "mortality" rate in the US is low is because the US is one of the very few countries that tries to save the life of severely premature babies and babies with severe birth defects. Not surprisingly, quite a lot of these sad cases die, up to 80% in the case of severely premature babies. By contrast, most other countries don't even try to save those infants, and simply record them as late miscarriages or stillbirths. Since they're never "born" they can't "die," so they don't count in infant mortality statistics. Hey presto! A lower infant mortality rate than the US! Congratulatory headlines in any random self-hating US media outlet...

    Here's a related fun fact: university hospitals often have higher death rates than community hospitals for grave disease, e.g. heart attacks, strokes. Is this because they're less competent? Some strange corruption where the richer and more prestigious hospital is screwing up because of its callous disregard for humanity, i.e. the kind of "logic" used to criticize the US infant mortality rate? Nope. It's just because the most serious cases prefer to go to university hospitals, or get transferred there from community hospitals, and because university hospitals often admit people for experimental therapies that usually don't work, whereas less sophisticated hospitals just send folks to hospice or home to die.

    Whenever you compare statistics, it really needs to be apples to apples, and when the statistic is so politically-charged as a quality of life versus type of government measurement, you really need to ask some hard and detailed questions about the methodology. It's amazingly easy to lie with statistics.
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @04:52PM (#22667988)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I don't hate the ideals that the USA originally aspired to, especially the idea that we can govern ourselves as a group and still maintain a cohesive society. What I hate is what we've done as a country, consistently, to other countries. We interfere with their development, we ignore their soverignty, and we have even stolen land from them. Yes, it's been a while since we've invaded a country and taken land from them, but it's happened.

    I love the ideals that we aspire to, but as a country there is a pattern of antisocial behavior which I find to be disturbing.
  • by damburger ( 981828 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @05:01PM (#22668162)

    I put it to you that the Cuban government is no worse than the United States government, under similar circumstances. The Cuban government is subject to monthly threats of annihilation from its northern neighbour, who possess the most powerful military the world has ever seen. Faced with a far less potent threat from Imperial Japan, the United States started rounding up people based on their ethnicity and putting them into camps. Faced with a far less potent threat from the Soviet Union, the United States started investigating its own intellectuals, artists, dissidents and union leaders accusing them of treason.

    This is not to condone the Cuban dictatorship (and I am calling it such directly seeing as you seem to have missed me calling it so indirectly in my original post...) - it is merely to explain its actions and its nature. Everyone, repeat EVERYONE, who has formed a government that works for the poor in Latin America has come under attack from the United States. In the same way that sharing an environment with dangerous predators has made Hippos extremely aggressive animals, sharing the Western Hemisphere with the U.S. made revolutionary movements there extremely aggressive.

    I suppose you are going to continue to maintain that I'm an apologist for the regime. But hey, you are clearly a libertarian, so I don't expect you to grasp nuance.

  • "I put it to you that the Cuban government is no worse than the United States government, under similar circumstances."

    "This is not to condone the Cuban dictatorship (and I am calling it such directly seeing as you seem to have missed me calling it so indirectly in my original post...) - it is merely to explain its actions and its nature."

    "In the same way that sharing an environment with dangerous predators has made Hippos extremely aggressive animals, sharing the Western Hemisphere with the U.S. made revolutionary movements there extremely aggressive."

    tell me where i am wrong in my understanding of your words: you are saying that the cuban government behaves the way it does because of the usa

    W.T.F!?

    this utterly blows my mind!

    here is my bizarre, neocon, libertarian (is that what you called me?! how did you base that weird judgment!?), imperialist, neocolonial, mercenary capitalist, zionist, orphan children raping opinion:

    1. criticize cuba for cuba doing bad things

    2. don't criticize the usa for cuba doing bad things

    that's it. that's the beginning of my thought. that's the end of my thought. that's my strange, exotic way of thinking

    please forgive me if this such an alien concept to you!

    (smacks forehead)

  • by Serge_Tomiko ( 1178965 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @05:22PM (#22668468)
    NO ONE can provide any references. You don't understand. The government will imprison/execute anyone trying to establish legitimate statistics regarding the health care system in Cuba. Not only that, the culture of repression will insure that no doctor will give you the honest truth unless you have a boat ready to take him to the US.

    I have known many who have fled that land of oppression, and have known a few doctors. It is from them I receive my information. Absent any transparency of the Cuba government, anecdotal evidence is to me far more reliable than propaganda. If you want to believe the shit shoveled to you by the Castro Monarchy, feel free.

    Also, if you honestly believe that 0.3% of the population dies every year because of unnecessary surgery - nothing I could possibly quote would be acceptable for you. That is nearly 1/3 of all deaths every year. Total insanity.

  • by keineobachtubersie ( 1244154 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @05:24PM (#22668498)
    "Like all the US citizens! Yay!"

    Bush is a fucking idiot and a traitor. Rise up and overthrow that madman.

    That would get me found and shot in Cuba, yet strangely, not here in the US.

    Funny how the reality of the situation escapes people like you in your rush to spew snide remarks all over the place.
  • russia tinkers in british affairs. china tinkers in american affairs. cuba tinkers in angolan affairs

    etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum

    most every country that exists and has ever existed and will ever exist has tinkered in the affairs of other countries

    and you want to do two things:

    1. conveniently forget all tinkering by any country except american tinkering
    2. leverage that american tinkering into direct accountability by the usa for whatever bullshit someone else does

    example: britian, france, russia, china, and the usa all had arms deals with iraq. but we'll forget all of that and just think about the usa. next, saddam hussein gassed kurds. so obviously, the usa is responsible for that

    this is your superior understanding of the world?
  • by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) * on Thursday March 06, 2008 @05:37PM (#22668716) Journal

    This could be useful when we discover we cannot trust the common carriers any more.
    When?

    When those "common carriers" are begging for retroactive immunity from handing our communications to bad actors like the Bush Administration, I'd say that "when" is "now".
  • by fropenn ( 1116699 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @05:47PM (#22668864)
    Why do individuals who disagree with Michael Moore's movies always resort to calling him "fat"? I don't see how his being overweight has any relevance for his views on guns, corporate crime, or health care.
    How about you address the issue he points out: that too many people in the U.S. have too little access to health care.
  • Re:sneakernet (Score:5, Insightful)

    by grcumb ( 781340 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @05:55PM (#22668986) Homepage Journal

    Sounds like an opportunity for propagandizing. Take a few thousand cheap USB keys, fill them with american media, put them in a water tight enclosure and drop them off outside cuban waters.

    Or just hand them to a citizen of any other country in the world, who can put them in a suitcase and bring them over on the plane.... 8^)


  • And all they've given up is their inalienable rights as human beings. Yay!


    Er... where do I find these "inalienable rights" for all human beings? Last I checked, the common interpretation was that these only apply to US citizens, if we had to extend them to everyone else our current international (and increasingly domestic) policies would dissolve.

    To all of our leaders, since FDR (perhaps before), the only "inalienable right" that the US has stood for is opening your markets to our corporations, and do what we say. Or at least this is the right that we've fought every modern war over.

    That said, Cuba has some problems, and should have free elections. I do think, sans the embargo, that they are better off than under the US shill Batista, though. If the people freely decided to be communist, then fine, no business of ours. Appearently communism isn't enough, since we are now trading with Vietnam and China, leaving only two "verboten" states, Cuba and North Korea. Cuba doesn't compare to N. Korea in any way besides economic systems.
  • Re:2 things (Score:3, Insightful)

    by j1m+5n0w ( 749199 ) on Thursday March 06, 2008 @10:11PM (#22671608) Homepage Journal

    what my enemy is: those who actually believe the usa just does evil things. that's not what you are saying, so i have no argument with you on that point

    I'm not defending the United States when I say they have good intentions. There have been many atrocities committed with good intentions. I think our foreign policy towards Cuba is guided by, perhaps, one part good intentions (we want them to be a democracy, as long as they make all the "right" decisions), two parts pride (we'd like to forget the whole humiliating bay of pigs thing), two parts revenge (for nationalizing the property of US corporations), and three parts stubbornness (if we stop our embargo, it's an admission that we were wrong all along).

    the bad usa policy towards cuba does not make cuba. cuba makes the bad usa policy. castro did not turn his country into an authoritarian dictatorship because the usa doesn't want to trade with it, the usa doesn't want to trade with it because cuba is an authoritarian dictatorship

    for the life of me, i can't fathom in a million years how otherwise intelligent people like yourself can get this cause and effect reversed!

    Cuba, of course, is at least as responsible for their own government as the United States is for perpetuating things. But, we in the United States can't change Cuba directly (nor can we change the past), we can only change our own foreign policy towards Cuba. As for the causality, my understanding of Cuban history isn't very good, so I'll defer to the other reply to your post, which is written by someone with (perhaps) more understanding than I.

    my problem is with the kind of thinking, utterly beyond my grasp, of saying because the usa is hostile towards castro, or iran, and iran or cuba tightens their grip, THAT THEREFORE THE USA IS REPONSIBLE FOR WHAT THOSE GOVERNMENTS DO
    I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the countries we don't currently get along with (and generally label "evil", perhaps not incorrectly), are countries that we've interfered with in self-serving ways in the past. (It's funny you mention Iran...) I think we ought to accept our share of the blame for that. Not more than our share, but not less either.

The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the `social sciences' is: some do, some don't. -- Ernest Rutherford

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