Government Mistakenly Declares Deaths of Citizens 361
superbrose writes "According to MSNBC, thousands of U.S. citizens have wrongfully been declared dead, due to an average of 35 data input errors per day by the Social Security Administration (SSA). Many other agencies rely on the data provided by the SSA, such as the IRS. People who have been wrongfully declared dead face many problems, such as rejection of tax returns, cancellation of health insurance, and closure of bank accounts. The article states, 'Input of an erroneous death entry can lead to benefit termination and result in financial hardship for a beneficiary.' Apparently it is far easier to declare a person's death than it is to correct the mistake. It continues, 'Social Security says an erroneous death record can be removed only when it is presented with proof that the original record was entered in error. The original error must be documented, and the deletion must be approved by a supervisor after "pertinent facts supporting reinstatement" are available in the system.'"
Do you trust the government with your idenity? (Score:5, Insightful)
death certificate (Score:-1, Insightful)
And if so, shouldn't the absence of such a document be proof alone?
Re:Do you trust the government with your idenity? (Score:4, Insightful)
BTW, I just love the procedure to un-dead the deads!
Re:wouldn't it be great? (Score:5, Insightful)
Err, shouldn't the proof be right there? (Score:2, Insightful)
Wouldn't the "pertinent facts" be easily established by looking at the incoming documentation saying "Jane Smith, Age 83, SSN XXX-XX-1234 died on 1/1/08" and noticing that "Billy McAnyone, Age 30, XXX-XX-1243" is the one you killed? I mean we're talking about clerical errors within the SSA so their own documentation won't match- how hard is this to (god forbid) detect on their own, none the less validate after the living-dead point out the problem?
Re:Do you trust the government with your idenity? (Score:3, Insightful)
Owing to Germany's history, there exists a keen sense among the populous that making the government too powerful is a bad thing. No such feeling is present among a majority of Americans/British/etc., and the possibility of governmental abuse of an ID card scheme is consequently real.
To paraphrase the old saw, 'The price of freedom is eternally fumbling for utility bills'.
Re:death certificate (Score:-1, Insightful)
Let me guess, there should be a certificate of death certificate that they need to fill out in order to prove they filled out the death certificate correctly?
Re:death certificate (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:death certificate (Score:5, Insightful)
Occam's razor has a bureaucratic counterpart: "All things being equal, the solution that means I don't have to do any extra work tends to be the best one."
You're still dead, friend.
Hotblack Desiato (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Do you trust the government with your idenity? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Another one? Give me a break! (Score:2, Insightful)
How are we in these United States different when compared to the so called "third world" countries - specifically relating to issues like these?
My guess is in many of the "third world" countries you'll be expected to bribe officials to correct an error like this. Of course, you could also probably bribe someone to list your enemy as dead as well.
Is that better? I guess it is if you're someone with a lot of money to throw around at bribes it is.
I kind of doubt there's retirement benefits in most third world countries.. because most people don't live until retirement age. I doubt most people can afford to get a loan. I'm unfamiliar with healthcare in third world countries.. but I kind of doubt most people can afford it, even if/when it's available. So yah, I guess being declared dead in a third world country has less impact because there's just nothing really to lose.
You're saying that's better?
Re:What should have been. (Score:4, Insightful)
The solution is not more digits, but to make social security numbers, nay ALL identifying numbers, self checksumming.
For example when you're shopping online the credit processing system knows immediately when you enter an invalid number because credit card numbers have a check digit (http://www.beachnet.com/~hstiles/cardtype.html). In this instance it seems that miskeying SSNs is a significant part of the problem, having a checksummed number greatly reduces this.
Another aspect is that everyone uses SSNs as identifying numbers. This is bad because, for example, the IRS can only be responsible for data entry faults in its own organization and not those made at the Social Security Administration. Its like Comcast using my Verizon customer number*. You can prevent this to some extent by registering for a taxpayer number to use with the IRS instead of your SSN. Refusing to give your SSN to agencies that request it (when practical) could also help.
*An apt analogy I think, comparing the dinosaurs of inept big government to the dinosaurs of big telecommunications.
Re:Do you trust the government with your idenity? (Score:3, Insightful)
We're not that different from France in that regard. There was quite a bit of ideological spillover between the drafting of the constitution and the French Revolution.
The UK is an interesting case, because, for the most part, the British government have been responsible stewards of the power which is (sort of) given to them by their citizens. Although the slippery slope argument still does apply, it hasn't really happened. Public sentiment about this is particularly strong due to the failure of several of Thatcher's privatization efforts -- the newly privatized Post Office recently determined that the most efficient/profitable way for it to operate would be to sell off virtually all of its assets, and call it a day.
My personal view on the ID cards is that they'd be perfectly acceptable (and probably a good idea) provided that they're implemented properly and that strong protective measures are put into place.
This is a good thing (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that it is a good thing that it is easier to declare someone dead than undead. Firstly, people die more often than they come back to life so it is a much more common thing to need to do.
Secondly, in this day and age of identity theft, you don't want to make it too convenient for someone to turn up claiming to be a person that everyone thought was dead. We aren't living in a soap opera, you know!
Re:Do you trust the government with your idenity? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Do you trust the government with your idenity? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Do you trust the government with your idenity? (Score:2, Insightful)
Americans' paranoia is wearing off (Score:5, Insightful)
I think, the GP's point was, Americans today don't care as much — we don't share the Founders' paranoia. Probably, because we have not seen the problem firsthand in too many generations — thanks, no doubt, to the Constitution.
The First Amendment itself is getting chipped away — you can't fake e-mail headers [wired.com] (there goes the anonymous speech, deemed precious on this very forum every time some asshole tries to get away breaking copyrights), and you can't be helping a political candidate [washingtonpost.com] too much.
But Americans welcome these laws, because they seem to address an acute problem (spam, lobbyists with too much freedom of speech, etc.). We clearly lost most of that paranoia of 200 years ago... Don't even get me started on the Second Amendment...
Re:Do you trust the government with your idenity? (Score:-1, Insightful)
Check digit (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Life Insurance (Score:3, Insightful)
Call your insurance company and let them know that, according to the SSA, *you* have died and would like to collect your insurance money. I'm sure they would be happy to sort things out with the SSA instead of paying you
Re:Check digit (Score:3, Insightful)
The check digit algorithm would hardly remain secret for long. The basis of the problem is misuse of the identifier, rather than its format. i.e. if all anyone could do with your SSN was contribute to your pension/pay your income tax about the only possible problem would be if you were involved in a conspiracy to launder money.
The identity fraud issue comes from systems which allow impersonation of people simply by knowing facts about them. Quite often not even especially obscure facts, such as names, names of relatives, SSN, education/employment history, present and past addresses, etc.
Re:Do you trust the government with your idenity? (Score:4, Insightful)
One of the markers of an overly moralistic society is the tendency to absolutes, black and white, right and wrong, gay and straight.
Most people are intrinsically bi, along some kind of spectrum. In north america, at least, both het and gay sides of the fence exert a lot of pressure on people to be one thing or the other, and this causes plenty of grief.
I happen to live in a community where it's easier than just about anywhere for people to switch, and it happens more often than you might imagine. There are many ways to be in the closet, and bi's are pushed there by both sides.
Re:neros.lordbalto (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, you got that part right, anyway. Because a whole of people get warm and fuzzy looking at him, romanticizing what they hope he is, and all he does is deliver vague platitudes with a nice, poetic cadence. He's a blank canvas on which people are projecting their personal wishses, and he's more than happy to take that and run with it. The level of delusion and naivete in his concert-style shows is really remarkable.
he's the Prince of Peace
Oh, except for that part. On that front, he's willing to let untold thousands die by precipitously pulling out of a country that Al Queda itself says is central to their plans. He's willing to say that if (his words) Al Queda were to show up in Iraq, he'd consider air strikes, and then occupying that country to deal with the problem. The whole point of depriving Al Queda of a friendly host "government" in Afghanistan (if you can call the Taliban rule that was ended there a government), and in making Iraq a place where Al Queda is placing (and now badly losing) so much of their resources was to break up that movement's capacity to operate in a central way. Obama doesn't seem to think that Al Queda ia a problem at this point, but is will to talk about bombing and invasion in Iraq "should the become established there" blah blah. Wow. Just, wow. That's your peace-loving saint?
If he's even a fraction as smart as his fainting crowds of worshippers think he is, then he has to know he's very wrong in saying all of that. So, there are two options: he's lying through his teeth to buy feel-good votes from fools, or he's himself that poorly informed. Either thing makes him iredeemingly a bad choice. Just his willingness (as he's repeated over and over) to unconditionally make camera time with tyrants both petty and big-league, giving them exactly the stage time and ego boost they need by traveling to their dens and giving them free PR is... incredible.
Re:Check digit (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, reducing reliance on a central ID number might be a good idea, also. In Germany giving away your ID number is relatively unproblematic because it's rarely used except as a particularly unsafe way of verifying your age online. Everywhere you really need the number (ie. while dealing with certain governmental agencies), they will require your ID card, which employs a number of safety measures like holographic reproduction of the photo to keep people from faking them.
Most businesses aren't even interested in the ID number much. Generally, the ID card is the document everything revolves around - and it's much easier to make a fake-proof ID card than it is to make a fake-proof integer.
That there's dangerous thinking son... (Score:4, Insightful)