Scientology Given Direct Access To eBay Database

An anonymous reader writes "The Church of Scientology can delete auctions from eBay with no supervision under the VeRO program, and has used this to delete all resale of the e-meters Scientologists use. This is to stop members from buying used units from ex-members instead of buying from the official (and very expensive) source. Given Scientology's record of fraud and abuse, should eBay give them this level of trust? Will this set a precedent for other companies that want to stop the aftermarket resale of their products?"

F-meter

[Anonymous Coward]

I think their membership is ready for an F-meter which indicates just how much they are being fucked over by their own church.

Re:Don't tell Chef but

[rishistar]

But I'm Hindu you insensitive clod! I have to use an Aum [wikipedia.org]-meter for my religious measurements!

*Comment deleted*

[Anonymous Coward]

[This comment violated the TOS from the Cult of Scientology. (tm)]

Anything for Tom

[sweetser]

It is a privilege to do everything in our power for Tom. This crap is so valuable, you should pay a lot to prove you are a sucker.

indulgences

[SoupGuru]

Hopefully the Catholics won't find out I've been reselling my indulgences too!

Wonderful

[LittleGuy]

Now where am I going to go to resell my Top Gun action figures or my White Tony Manuro Disco Suit?

Re:Off topic, yet...

[TheNinjaroach]

A very sad story, indeed. It also spooked me out a bit, that guy has the same street address as my own...

Double paranoia calls for doubly thick tin foil. I heard I can pick some up on eBay...

Re:Don't tell Chef but

[thanksforthecrabs]

Does this mean my "What Would Xenu Do?" t-shirt isn't legal?

$3700 Wheatstone bridges?

[Entropius]

Actually, Co$ could probably be sued for false advertising.

The name of the product is the "Mark VIII Super Quantum E-meter". A Wheatstone bridge, however, works on completely classical principles.

Or maybe resistance is quantized, with one quantum of resistance being equal to the extra resistance from one extra thetan hanging around?

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[rootofevil]

since April 1, 1976 [wikipedia.org]

alternatively, October 2, 1925 [wikipedia.org]

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[Hillgiant]

Erm, excuse me. What does God need with a starship?

E-meter like a condom

[cgfsd]

I would equate an E-meter to that of a condom. Two things you would never want to buy used and two things used for screwing people.

Oh well

[Protonk]

It isn't censorship. It isn't illegal. It is totally within the scope of eBay's user agreements with sellers and buyers. eBay has negotiated an agreement with a large vendor who is interested in preventing the resale of their items. I HAVE to presume that whatever these items are they come with an agreement eliminating the possiblity of resale. They would then fall in to the category of attempting to resell items which have a non-transferrable license. It is totally within their rights to cancel any auction that they feel is outside their TOS. In this case, they have chosen to offload the work on to a more zealous party.

Just because it is withing their rights doesn't make it a good idea. As a matter of fact, it is a terrible idea. allowing a third party to void auctions without oversight is foolish for a few reasons:

1. Other large interests see these actions and will want the same treatment, as long as it does not offer significant negative publicity. The fact that ebay is WILLING to offer this service puts them in a bad barganing position with these other firms.

2. It only means lost revenue for ebay. Presumably, ebay was faced with a legal threat over allowing resale of these items. SOMEHOW, ebay made the determination that compliance was somehow too expensive and have offered to shift the cost of compliance to CoS. CoS does NOT have an incentive to be careful. They have an incentive to overextend their authority because the lost customer is not theirs.

3. As a corollary, this is like outsourcing your customer service to a motorcycle gang. CoS has every reason to be pernicious, litigious and overbroad. They have NO reason to see gray areas and offer the benefit of the doubt.

4. Compliance in good faith by ebay would probably not have hazarded a lawsuit. IANAL, but most of these suits stem from what is basically deliberate negligence on the part of the reselling authority (or serving authority). If ebay acts on their own standards they are likely to meet whatever tests exist.

Re:Don't tell Chef but

[elrous0]

The Church of Scientology has ruined lives [wikipedia.org], had people imprisoned on false charges [wikipedia.org], sued innocent people into bankruptcy, committed espionage [wikipedia.org], harassed critics at their jobs, silence free speech, etc.

There is nothing funny about them.

I hope that's just blustering...

[Valdrax]

[L]ast I tried a DOS on eBay for fucking with my mother's account, it only took a mere 5,000 simulataneous requests every ten seconds to DOS them.

Err, did you forget to click the Post Anonymously checkbox before admitting to an act which may carry civil and/or criminal penalties?

Microsoft vs. the Church of Scientology

[touretzky]

Q: What's the difference between Microsoft and the Church of Scientology?

A: One is a wealthy and powerful criminal enterprise bent on world domination, while the other, ah, ummm.... Microsoft has better health benefits.

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[ethanms]

It's sad, but I can't stop myself from replying to this obvious nerd bait...... the quote is from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, not "The Undiscovered Country"

Re:Don't tell Chef but

[Z00L00K]

E-meter for sale - cheap! Only $2.95! Just call [phone] or [phone]

I'll probably be modded down for this - or have this little post killed by the scientologists.

Re:Don't tell Chef but

[Bobb Sledd]

No, it's OK. "Xenu do" was already a movie from the 80's starring Olivia Newton-John.

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[monkeyboythom]

I dunno...my girlfriend has religious paraphenalia that needs electricity. I know because when I am in another room, I can hear a buzzing sound in the bedroom and her chanting, "oh, god. oh, god! ohhhhh, gooood!"

The real question is, since when does your religious paraphernalia need to be be plugged into the wall?

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[d3ac0n]

Argh!

You are correct. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098382/quotes [imdb.com]

I give myself one geek demerit for picking the wrong movie.

Re:Don't tell Chef but

[flyingsquid]

Does this mean my "What Would Xenu Do?" t-shirt isn't legal?

The problem with "WWXD?" is that it's just not a terribly useful guiding philosophy. For instance, imagine you're in a situation where you're having trouble getting along with your coworkers, and so you ask yourself, "WWXD?" The answer is that Xenu would round up his coworkers, put them on some starships shaped like DC-8 airliners, ship them to the distant reaches of the galaxy, and then nuke them into oblivion. So, as you can see, "WWXD?" has two major problems:

First, the solution is *always* to put people on spaceships shaped like 1950s-era jet airliners and then nuke them, because that's all we know about Xenu. "WWXD?" dictates that you put people on DC-8 shaped spaceships and then nuke them in any situation, whether it's marital problems, dealing with the poor, or feeling frustrated that you dropped your grilled cheese sandwich: just round up a bunch of people, put them on airplane-shaped spaceships, and then drop a bunch of H-bombs on them. It's just not very flexible as a philosophy.

The second issue with the "WWXD?" philosophy is more practical. Xenu was an evil galactic overlord. As a galactic overlord, he had lots of resources, in particular, lots of minions and henchmen to round people up and put them on spaceships, and lots of spaceships shaped like DC-8s, and lots of thermonuclear bombs. Unless you have access to similar resources, "WWXD?" is just not practical to apply to your everyday life. Although I admit, when I think of how to deal with Scientologists, and then ask "WWXD?", I have to admit that the philosophy does have some appeal.

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[d3ac0n]

LIES! ./ posters don't HAVE girlfriends!

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[maxwell demon]

... to boldly correct what no man had corrected before ... :-)

Re:$3700 Wheatstone bridges?

[Chris Burke]

Or maybe resistance is quantized, with one quantum of resistance being equal to the extra resistance from one extra thetan hanging around?

In my own experiments with E-meters (purchased off E-bay of course), I've found that one quantum of resistance is equal to two thetans. If you have an even number of thetans, then add one, there's no change at all, but add one more onto that, and bam, it jumps up.

Weird, I know. The universe is a mysterious place.

/s/Xenu/Cowboyneal

[davidwr]

Can someone with more humor than yours truly rewrite this starring CowboyNeal? WWCND?

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[TrekkieGod]

I give myself one geek demerit for picking the wrong movie.

I hereby smite you.

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[TobyRush]

the quote is from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

And therein lies the true wonder... not only did he quote from Star Trek, and not only did he quote Shatner during that intermediate period when he was not cool, but he quoted from ST V, which most consider the worst one ever made.

That's no nerd, that's an übernerd. We are not worthy.

Re:Don't tell Chef but.. I'm Buddhist...

[davidsyes]

Mahayana, to be specific....

OM-MA-NI-PAD-ME-HUM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantra [wikipedia.org]

Re:Don't tell Chef but

[Chris Burke]

The second issue with the "WWXD?" philosophy is more practical. Xenu was an evil galactic overlord. As a galactic overlord, he had lots of resources, in particular, lots of minions and henchmen to round people up and put them on spaceships, and lots of spaceships shaped like DC-8s, and lots of thermonuclear bombs. Unless you have access to similar resources, "WWXD?" is just not practical to apply to your everyday life.

I agree this is a big problem. I don't know about any of you, but all my spaceships are shaped like DC-10s.

Re:yet again the religous twats get too much say

[FishWithAHammer]

as far as i am concerned you all have way too much power and are responsible for every war there has ever been

Cold War. Stalin says hi.

Re:Don't tell Chef but

[CheshireCatCO]

just round up a bunch of people, put them on airplane-shaped spaceships, and then drop a bunch of H-bombs on them. It's just not very flexible as a philosophy.

Sure, but to give Xenu his due: I always seem to feel better after doing this, too. It's even more effective at picking me up than ice cream.

Re:My guess is...

[Anonymous Coward]

At first I felt like correcting you, but I didn't feel like breaking rules 1 and 2.

Oh, okay. It's just blustering, after all.

[Valdrax]

No, I just don't give a fuck. What's the law going to do? I just opened 5,000 various auctions in my Firefox browser and set them to auto-refresh at the same time. The fact that their servers couldn't stand up to a simulation of 5,000 people clicking 'refresh' at the same time doesn't constitute a violation of law. The key word in the sentence is 'TRIED' not 'successfully carried out'

My bad. You *attempted* to commit a felony. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers there, chief.

In that case, never mind. It's much more likely that you executed a denial of service attack on your *own* machine than on eBay. I mean, you do know that Firefox has an upper limit on how many connections it will actually open at the same time, right? (Go to about:config and filter for "connect.") All other connections are just placed in a queue until Firefox has an available slot. The slowdown was entirely on your own machine and LAN.

I mean, honestly... Did you really think that you were being some sort of 1337 super-hax0r by using *one* machine on a single home or school connection to bog down one of the largest e-commerce sites on the planet?

(Oh, also, your proposed Million Loser March is more likely to DoS your proxy service than eBay itself.)

The law's tried it before anyways. I run rings around them every time, simpyly because most judges aren't smart enough to know what they're trying to charge me for.

Sure thing, kid. Keep saying things like that in a public forum. We're all in awe of your brilliance and eagerly await to see the way in which your intellect would dazzle the courtroom.

Re:/s/Xenu/Cowboyneal

[spun]

The problem with "WWCBND?" is that it's just not a terribly useful guiding philosophy. For instance, imagine you're in a situation where you're having trouble getting along with your coworkers, and so you ask yourself, "WWCBND?" The answer is that CowboyNeal would sit on a couch, eat Pringles, and play video games. So, as you can see, "WWCBND?" has two major problems:

First, the solution is *always* to sit on a couch, eat Pringles, and play video games because that's all we know about CowboyNeal. "WWCBND?" dictates that you sit on a couch, eat Pringles, and play video games in any situation, whether it's marital problems, dealing with the poor, or feeling frustrated that you dropped your grilled cheese sandwich: just sit on a couch, eat some Pringles, and play video games. It's just not very flexible as a philosophy.

The second issue with the "WWCBND?" philosophy is more practical. CowboyNeal is a fat slob. As a fat slob, he already has the resources to follow through with this plan, in particular, he has a couch, lots of Pringles, and plenty of video games to play. Unless you have access to similar resources, "WWCBND?" is just not practical to apply to your everyday life. Although I admit, when I think of how to deal with the fact that I too am a fat slob, and then ask "WWCBND?", I have to admit that the philosophy does have some appeal.

Re:Church

[emilper]

no, it's a sect, a split from the Church of "Astounding Stories".

Open letter to eBay

[chord.wav]

Dear eBay,
Get some balls.

Sincerely,
Me

Re:Don't tell Chef but.. I'm Buddhist...

[edittard]

Padme yum? I can't disagree.

Re:Don't tell Chef but

[Library Spoff]

Does it tell you mdma levels in pills? cool, where can i get one?

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[d3ac0n]

I hereby smite you.

What does a TrekkieGod need with a...

Oh, nevermind.

And so it becomes apparent...

[Anonymous Coward]

And people say geeks have no knowledge of sects.

E-Meter? Ha!

[Sponge Bath]

An E-Meter is no match for the "Church of Jobs" iMeter!

Re:/s/Xenu/Cowboyneal

[Stormwatch]

You know... sitting on a couch, eating Pringles, and playing video games has never caused wars or anything. The world would be a better place if people followed CowboyNeal's fine example.

Re:Head Shops & E-Meters

[Stormwatch]

He thinks he has a girlfriend, but in reality he is supporting a woman and her B.O.B.

Frog blast the vent core!

Re:My guess is...

[KublaiKhan]

Oh, that's alright. My nice thick blinds will keep me safe. ;-p

Re:/s/Xenu/Cowboyneal

[Jarik_Tentsu]

The answer is that CowboyNeal would sit on a couch

The What Would Tom Cruise Do (WWTCD) ideology would dictate you *jump* on the couch. In any situation.

~Jarik

Re:Not long now

[argent]

You mean like when they [REDACTED] and [REDACTED]?

Good News Everyone!

[dintech]

I can just imagine a modern day equivalent:

Zealot: Hey Hubbard, check this out...
Hubbard: What is it?
Zealot: It's a new device, I call it the e-meter!
Hubbard: Whats-it-do daddy-o?
Zealot: Well, it's actually a modified client for a popular bandwidth test [speedtest.com] except this one measures your 'theaton level'! Hehe.
Hubbard: Wow! We can just send this client out as a world-wide spam-blanket and no more need for street canvasing! We'll be rich, rich, RICH!
Zealot: Mwuhah... oh no! I've just thought of a problem.
Hubbard: Oh? What's that? People won't be convinced by their super-high theaton level and immediately sign up for our brochure? We won't be able to stop re-distribution of beta versions on ebay? We can't use them to zap unbelievers into submission with? You look positively deflated my friend...
Zealot: Mmmm, no.... half of America is on Comcast...
Hubbard: Haha! Fear not my little novice, haven't you heard of PowerBoost? [slashdot.org]
Zealot: Mwuhahahaa...
Hubbard: Mwuhahahaa...
Zealot: Mwuhahahaa...
Hubbard: Mwuhahahaa...
...

Re:Don't tell Chef but

[EllisDees]

>I thought making fun of religions was not allowed because it was insensitive and intolerant ?

Anything is "allowed", as far as free speech goes. While making fun of a religion might be insensitive and intolerant, making fun of Scientology is neither. Scientology is a religion like tofu is a meat.

Xenu is a good guy, and he loves you!

[jameskojiro]

The CoS is a nothing more than a disinformation campaign by people opposed to the Galactic rule of Xenu.

They use blatant lies about Xenu to build thier base up.

The aliens Xenu sent to their firey doom weren't just ordinary citizens, they were Galactic Welfare recipients and they were a complete and total drain on the Galactic Tax system. These Aliens were given several chances to get off the welfare system and were all able to work. Xenu had them gathered up and sent to processing, they downloaded their minds into a giant computer where they could spend their eternity living off free Galactic government cheese. But what to do with their bodies? Well Xenu checked and some life bearing planets were facing peril in that they were losing carbon in their biospheres, one such planet Earth needed extra carbon, so they dropped off the brain dead bodies in volcaoes so that any any alien microbes would be sterilized and the carbon would enter the air and thus the carbon cycle. Xenu is so kind to think of us!

The Galactic Communist party was pissed off because their lost a great deal of their voting base (the welfare recipients). Since citizens who have been virtialized only have 1/4 of a vote. So they have agents spreading lies so when Earth joins the Galactic government there are seeds of mistrust against the duly elected Galactic President Xenu who has won in landslide victory after landslide victory and is now in his 1,345,236th term in office. LRH was a recruited by an agent to spread mistrust of Xenu.

It's all down to politics folks.