FBI To Spend $1B Expanding Fingerprint Database

mytrip and other readers alerted us to news that the FBI is about to announce the awarding of a $1B, 10-year contract to expand its fingerprint database to incorporate other biometrics — palm prints, iris scans, scars, tattoos, possibly facial shape — "Whatever the biometric that comes down the road, we need to be able to plug that in and play," an FBI spokesman is quoted. Barry Steinhardt of the ACLU sounded the cautionary note: "This had started out being a program to track or identify criminals. Now we're talking about large swaths of the population — workers, volunteers in youth programs. Eventually, it's going to be everybody."

Re:Keep your eye out for...

[Asic Eng]

if you ever held a penny, the government has your fingerprints

A collection of fingerprints doesn't strike me as particularly valuable. Now if you had a collection of fingerprints associated with people's names, that would be something interesting. Even if you found a way to record the name of the last person who held a penny before it returned to the bank - what exactly is so interesting about supermarket cashiers?

My two cents...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it be easier to just tattoo everyone with a number? Then anyone who is caught doing something "wrong" can be incarcerating in reeducation camps? Wouldn't this be a lot easier to do than to try getting everyone's biometrics over a long course of time? I mean, didn't Hitler have the idea down right, although it started out with only one section of society, and not everyone?

Re:Keep your eye out for...

[kaos07]

what exactly is so interesting about supermarket cashiers?

They're disgruntled and poorly paid! The more likely to become revolutionaries...

Re:My two cents...

[Asic Eng]

Wouldn't it be easier to just tattoo everyone with a number?

Not really - they wouldn't leave traces of the tattoo around.

If only...

[Anonymous Coward]

there was a Presidential Candidate willing to protect our privacy and civil liberties. Oh well... maybe 2012. Wait, what, there is? And you say he's attracted the largest grassroots campaign in the history of American politics? Damn.

Re:My two cents...

[Loibisch]

Yes, but with omnipresent video cameras you'd have a deal...

If you've done nothing wrong

[yada21]

If you've done nothing wrong ,you have nothing to fear. Just so long as they don't redifine what's wrong, with retro-active effect.

Is it useful?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are numerous way around these methods of identification:

palm prints - can be removed in an acid bath and can be faked with latex or surgical silicone. Even systems that incorporate a variation on live finger detection can be fooled.

iris scans - Can be changed through the use of contact lenses.

Scars - a difficult one, but plastic surgury, make-up and latex can make them vanish or even create temporary ones.

Tattoos - Laser surgury can remove them, they can also be altered beyond recognition by professionals.

Possibly facial shape - can be altered through a variety of techniques

Sure, it would identify the average US citizen, but it would be useless against organised crime and terrorism.

Re:If you've done nothing wrong

[Loibisch]

If you've done nothing wrong ,you have nothing to fear. Just so long as they don't redifine what's wrong, with retro-active effect.

And as long as there is no mixup in any of their databases making you a suspect for something you never did. I'm more in fear of incompetence at the government level than I am about malice.

Waste of taxpayers money and absolutely absurd

[dj42]

I don't care what other people do peacefully. Our laws encourage illegal behavior, and we facilitate violence by patrolling non-violent and non-criminal offenses. It is our fault that we drive people to violent behavior in many, if not all cases. The idea that we can allow the government to track us by DNA, fingerprints, sperm count, whatever, is simply absurd. It is absolutely NONE OF THE FENDER GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS. The FBI does not deserve, nor warrant, any of this information from American citizens. In fact, we should slash their budget by at least 50% for at least 5-10 years to remind them who is in charge. Where do they get off thinking they can waste tax payer money on something so stupid?

Of course the other agenda ...

[Chrisq]

Of course the other agenda they have been working on is to ensure that everyone has done something wrong. Let someone borrow a DVD? Watched a match in a church hall on a big screen? Sorted out a neighbour's computer, and his wife gives you some cakes in return ... and neither of you declare the payment in kind on your tax return.

They can always find some excuse to bring you in if they look hard enough.

small scale malice is the big issue

[ex-geek]

And as long as there is no mixup in any of their databases making you a suspect for something you never did. I'm more in fear of incompetence at the government level than I am about malice.

You were probably only considering conspiracy theory type malice. But what you really have to be afraid of, is your neighbour Frank, the cop, who is jealous of your wife and would like to have you out of the way.
Lots of governement employees will have access rights to such a huge database. Human nature tells us that some of them will abuse the system.

Re:If you've done nothing wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, with such a huge database, many people will have access to it. How many of those people will be inclined to use it for something other than work purposes? Like, checking up on their spouse, neighbour or doing a friend a favour and check on the teacher of one of his kids? How do they keep track which access is part of a routine investigation and what is just "perks"? That is what people tend to forget, information like this tends to get abused and the more there is, the bigger the chance something is going to happen. Never mind the hassle if some information is entered incorrectly or someone steals your identity and suddenly you're confused with someone else. Even if you haven't done anything wrong, your privacy is still at risk.

FUD

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFA:

The ACLU's Steinhardt doesn't believe it will stop there.

But offers nothing to back that up. Citation needed or you're spouting FUD.

great idea

[rucs_hack]

Absolutelly wonderful, this will work perfectly.

After all, Terrorists are well known for co-operating fully with the authorities in providing their biometric data.

Oh wait....

Re:Is it useful?

[moosesocks]

Sure, it would identify the average US citizen, but it would be useless against organised crime and terrorism.

Let me make this perfectly clear: TERRORISTS ARE NOT BOND VILLAINS.

They don't have massive teams of plastic surgeons standing by to modify the appearances of their operatives. What would the point be, especially when the attacks often result in the death of the attacker, and they have hordes of disillusioned youth with no criminal history.

There are no laser cannons, nor are there secret underground bunkers. 9/11 was carried out using nothing but box-cutters. At that rate, prevention is quite a bit more important than catching the perpetrators after the attack takes place (if the attacker even survives at all).

I'm sorry, but this system is going to do nothing to prevent terrorism. It might help catch repeat sex-offenders, but from what I hear, the biometric data from convicted offenders is already collected and stored.

Re:My two cents...

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was about 11 years old I vividly remembering seeing, for the first time, "the tattoo" of a woman who survived the Holocaust of WWII. Considering tattoos are not kosher (Deuteronomy 14:1-2) it added insult to an already unspeakable act. Years later even as a sailor in the military (and nonbeliever in the whole "Ceiling Cat" thing) I still wouldn't get a tattoo. It carried and still carries that much weight.

BTW, I believe the parent's comment is both satire and a possible "logical" step of the FBI program. Just switch tattoo for a RFID'd Driver's License and requirement to swipe it to buy food & fuel. (You know to protect us from "those that attack us because they hate our freedom.")

The once great United States of America is dying because our freedoms are quickly dying. Friedman's "Capitalism and Freedom" said it all: both are needed for a successful society, not just one or the other.

Re:I'm sorry

[sexybomber]

I can't see how this can be used invasivly. [...] Especially, if it only includes the biometrics of criminals. Any thoughts?

What if disapproval of the government and its methods becomes "sedition" and therefore a crime?

There's an Ayn Rand quote about how many laws are intentionally designed to create criminals. So if there are sufficient laws that one cannot reasonably avoid breaking them, and thus becoming a criminal, then everybody's biometrics are fair game.

Re:If you've done nothing wrong

[Jherek Carnelian]

Some classes and races are far more likely to be bad guys than other classes and races. I'm sorry that you've been swept up in a category that you don't justifiably belong in... but it's not about you, or about *any* individual. It's about the numbers.

So, you are saying that the police are innumerate?
Because clearly a very large majority of these 'classes and races' are not 'bad guys.' So even if these 'classes and races' were 100x more likely to be 'bad guys' you are still looking at negligible differences on the order of 0.00001% vs 0.001% - which is not what I would consider effective use of limited resources.