Couple Busted For Shining Laser At Helicopter 863
coondoggie sends us to another Network World piece, this one about a couple charged with shining a green laser into the cockpit of a police helicopter. The FBI and the US attorney's office charged the California couple under a federal statute. They could end up paying a $250,000 fine and doing 20 years of jail time. "The complaint states that on November 8, 2007, at about 10:55 p.m., a green laser beam illuminated the cockpit of a Kern County Sheriff's Department helicopter, which was flying at 500 feet during routine patrol in Bakersfield, California. When the light hit the cockpit, it disoriented the Kern County Sheriff's pilot, causing pain and discomfort in his eyes for a couple of hours, the FBI said in a statement."
Set an example. (Score:1, Informative)
There's a lot that goes on when you're trying to land a plane and a small distraction can be disastrous.
Besides, it is a federal offense to do that kind of thing.
This is what they used (Score:2, Informative)
So... don't buy one of these pens or you might shine it at a chopper at night by accident and then spend 20 years in the slammer or pay a quarter mil or whatevs. Though for forking over that much dough for a stupid laser pen to begin with, a $250,000 fine may ironically be appropriate.
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:1, Informative)
You don't want one shined in your eye though.
Especially when flying a helicopter.
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:5, Informative)
Presentation pointers are red, very low powered, you can't see the beam without some kind of mist, you can get them for under five pounds in the UK all over the place, normally smaller than a pen, but thicker.
Green lasers are more powerful, you can see the beam in clear conditions, they cost an awful lot more ( somewhere between 100 - 200), are much larger, closer to say, a couple of coke cans stood on end, and can cut through a polystyrene cup....
Or at least that was the case the last time I looked maybe a year ago, I just took the first google hit that caught my eye and unsurprisingly they've got smaller and cheaper now : http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/lights/5a47/ [thinkgeek.com]
heh, the thinkgeek page even specifically points out "Warning: Green lasers are very powerful. Pointing at aircraft may land you in jail. Without a Monopoly card to get you back out. Use it wisely."
Re:Obligatory (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:3, Informative)
I use mine primarily to point things out while documenting buildings, and went with the weakest green laser just for a little bit more safety. It's still significantly brighter than any red laser pointer I've ever seen, plus human eyes are much more sensitive to green light than red, so it's really easy to see. I can see the beam itself at night, but not during the day. If I have just put fresh batteries in it, and shine it at a white projection screen, the spot is bright enough that it's unpleasant to look at.
Re:Obligatory (Score:5, Informative)
Welcome to American law.
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:5, Informative)
Those lasers are powerful enough to show up (ie: a green line) when pointing out stars and constellations to your significant other or children.
I'm not really sure how a laser would bring down a plane though. Do you really think the pilots are up there doing dives and loops and such?
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:3, Informative)
Once upon a time, making these distinctions in sentencing was left up to people who were supposed to do this kind of thinking in the process: judges. I suspect this sentence may be a product of "deterministic sentencing", a.k.a., removing human judgment from courts.
No one is that accurate with a laser pointer (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Umm.. (Score:3, Informative)
For all the "oops, it was an accident" types, consider that anyone using a laser beam outside at night is doing it TO LOOK AT THINGS - you will NOT miss an airplane with its flashing beacons and strobe lights. This kind of thing is NOT an accident.
Also, it's very unlikely that the brief flash caused by crossing a stationary or wandering beam would have been a real problem, compared to several seconds of targeted exposure, during which the natural tendency is unfortunately to look AT the beam (and thus increase the risk). So it makes perfect sense to me to prosecute in this case.
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:5, Informative)
No, no, and... No!
A IIIa (now called 3R for the type of devices under consideration here) puts out less than 5mW. 5mW of green laser light doesn't magically contain more energy than 5mw of red laser light.
Humans perceive green light as much, much brighter because we have a higher sensitivity to it. But in terms of total power, 5mW equals 5mW equals 5mW.
That said, IIIB/3R can cause temporary eye damage, though it takes some effort to target it just in the right spot and for long enough (a quick random sweep across the eyes won't do it). But "disorientation" and "hours of discomfort", over 500ft away and through a window? No. Evil piggies just want to cry victim.
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:3, Informative)
A 200mw green laser is no more / less powerful than it's red / blue / infrared counterparts
of the same power level. If the couple were truly evil, they would have used an infrared
lab laser with an output of 5-15 Watts. The officer wouldn't even know what happened until
his eyes 'popped'. Infrared is actually more dangerous because of the lack of the blink
factor. Shine a bright light in your eyes and you'll close them / turn away to deal with
it. Infrared you won't even realize you're in danger until it's too late.
A green laser appears to be more powerful because the human eye can see that wavelength a
lot better than we do with the red end of the spectrum. So while it LOOKS brighter,
200mw is still 200mw any way you slice it, thus the green lasers are no more powerful than
any others. ( Based solely on color / wavelength )
I own one of these (Score:5, Informative)
When my wife took hold of the laser, we were driving in the car in SoCal and she illuminated a mansion up on a hill and exclaimed "This thing is AWESOME!" which was one of the only times in memory she has shown avid approval of any of my "toys". Then she said "I can see why people want to shine this at flying objects."
If you illuminate any of the reflective street signs with the laser, it is amazingly impressive. The entire sign, regardless of size, illuminates so blindingly bright that you cannot look at it. Do this at a street sign over a freeway and you could easily cause an accident.
To avoid the temptation not to play with one of these is too great. I sympathize with this couple completely.
Green = Bad for the eyes (Score:1, Informative)
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:They hit a pilot (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Laws != Justice (Score:4, Informative)
"The helicopter was at 500 feet, so the distance from laser to cockpit was at least 500 ft, and probably more than 1000 considering the angle needed to enter the cockpit rather than bounce off the bottom of the helicopter."
Not necessarily. When the article says they were flying at 500 ft, it is most likely quoting the official report which came from the pilot. To a pilot, "flying at 500 ft" means flying at 500 ft above sea level (altimeters measure altitude using barometric pressure, which indicates altitude above sea level, and therefore can't possibly know where the actual ground is). So, if, for example, ground level was actually at 200 ft above sea level, the helicopter would only be 300 ft above the ground. This is probably not an unrealistic altitude for a patrolling police helicopter.
It's also not necessary to shine it at much of an angle if the helicopter was banking in a turn and the pilot was looking into the turn, as a pilot might logically do when turning, and also looking down, which a police pilot on patrol might logically do.
The article also doesn't state that it's a 5mW laser, just that it's a hand-held green laser. There are much more powerful hand-held green lasers than 5mW available.
The article does not give enough information to write this off as "more green-laser hysteria".
Re:No one is that accurate with a laser pointer (Score:5, Informative)
Police helicopters do ground reconnaissance for most of their life so they have windows at or near the pilots' feet so they can see suspects, car chases, etc. on the ground more easily. Makes it dead simple for somebody to shine a laser beam up 500ft and right through the glass directly at the downward pointed eyes of the (co)pilot.
Re:No one is that accurate with a laser pointer (Score:5, Informative)
1 word: refraction
Note that helicopters tend to tilt forwards when moving forwards, and also that a lot of choppers have a very large portion of their front made out of "glass" (probably not glass, but something to that effect). A bit of refraction on the helmet lens and the glass front would be enough to turn it towards the eyes of the pilot, and any bit of interference along the way would probably spread the beam a bit, making it bigger than the pinpoint it usually is. Honestly, the extended disorientation/pain/discomfort the pilot claims don't seem that far fetched, especially when we're talking about night-time surveillance, and a laser (aka an "inordinately large amount of light") was (supposedly) shone into your eyes.
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:3, Informative)
The sun shines white, that's true. It appears yellow because the blue is scattered. By contrast the entire remainder of the sky appears blue (because the blue rays, while coming from the sun, have been scattered by absorption and re-transmission).
What an electron absorbs in energy, it will retransmit some time later.
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:2, Informative)
This is DEADLY serious (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Filtering (Score:5, Informative)
I am a laser engineer at work (trained to work with dangerous high power class IV lasers) and can tell you that there are limitations to this approach.
The filter material at most laser wavelengths would not be clear. My laser safety goggles for 532nm green lasers are dark amber, 660nm red laser goggles are blue. Not practical for navigating aircraft around obstacles.
There is no single filter that is effective for all wavelengths of lasers (green, red, co2, etc).
Also the optical density for a single filter - the blocking capability of the filter - is not the same level across different wavelengths. And optical laser filters do not block the laser beam, they reduce the energy level. Prolonged exposure even with laser safety goggles will still cause eye injury; the object of the goggles is to reduce the energy long enough to account for the reflex time of turning your eyes away from a laser beam and thus avoiding eye injury. This does little good in a cockpit when someone maliciously aims a laser beam at an aircraft.
There is also the hazard of refracted and reflected beam energy. The beam will be refracted as it strikes the cockpit glass and its energy may or may not be attenuated, and there is also the hazard of beam reflections off of objects in the cockpit. The danger of stray beams in this condition is very real and it may be near impossible - while affixed to the pilot seat via seat belt - to avoid exposure to any laser beam. There is also the remote possibility of the refraction of the glass having a focusing effect on the laser beam and exposing the pilot to higher w/cm^2 laser energy at the wrong place.
I have never experienced a laser eye injury, but have been told in laser safety training that they are extremely painful.
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:2, Informative)
Even the "legal" ones can be easily modified by eliminating the IR filter. They put out considerably more power that way, but the IR diverges so quickly it's really only a hazard for those nearby.
My greenie cuts thin plastic, pops balloons, and ruins digital cameras. Fun stuff.
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:5, Informative)
About the only question left for the court is did the couple shine it at the helicopter directly (in which case it was an intentional attack), or were they shining it in the sky and were just careless.
Yeah, if you used it in an open area, the cops might have more problems. OTH, it was a police helicopter, which are used to chase down suspects all the time.
Re:No one is that accurate with a laser pointer (Score:5, Informative)
Advisory only, not mandatory (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/mediasources/20050113b [nacdl.org]
And just this month a 7-2 ruling in the Minbrough and Gall cases, related to crack cocaine sentencing guidelines, again they are advisory only, not mandatory. Here's a link from the LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-sentencing16dec16,0,1084405.story?coll=la-opinion-center [latimes.com]
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:5, Informative)
What you are neglecting is the retina absorption of laser radiation, which varies with wavelength. The human eye absorbs the most light energy in the 500-700nm wavelength range, which happens to be where green (532nm) and red (660nm) fall within. In the same amount of time, 5mW of 532nm laser energy will do more eye damage than 5mW of ultraviolet 400nm laser energy.
Incorrect. Any laser higher than class 1M can cause permanent eye damage. Laser eye injuries are extremely painful even at class II 1mW or lower levels. Class IIIR (formerly IIIa) lasers can produce no more than 5mW, but class IIIB lasers can produce as much as 500mW and can cause skin damage.
Lasers are not a controlled substance. One could purchase a class IIIB green laser that puts out 500mW of laser energy and really do damage to a pilot from the ground. If you think these people are exaggerating about their suffering, you are dead wrong.
Re:What kind of laser? (Score:5, Informative)
Absolutely positively not true. Laser sources that emit a non-visible beam fall in class IIIR, class IIIB or class IV which are the worst eye hazards regardless of power. ANSI Z136.1 specifies that non-visible class IIIR or higher laser beams must be enclosed to prevent laser radiation exposure to non-trained personnel.
I work around exposed class IV CO2 10600nm laser beams capable of putting out 100 watts (that's watts, not mW) of power. The beam is invisible to the human eye yet it is capable of cutting metal. "Not dangerous at all" is a serious understatement.
Re:Filtering (Score:3, Informative)
First of all, there are not "at least three colors". Very few laser diodes (cheap ones, especially) lase at wavelengths less than 600 nm. There are green lasers at 532 nm (so here's one color to block), and I suppose apparently there are blue laser pointers [thinkgeek.com] now. But since those things cost an arm and a leg, it doesn't need to be blocked. Most red lasers lase at something close to He-Ne wavelengths (633 nm) or above (around 650 nm or so).
So, to effectively block all commonly available laser wavelengths, you just need a coating to block 532 nm, and another to block the range of 620 - 680 nm, and guess what---except for these specific wavelengths, it's no worse than wearing two sunglasses---actually better; you'd know if you've seen laser safety goggles; those things are pretty transparent (I've worn three on top of one another and still see most everything, except for the three wavelengths of the lasers I was working with at the time).
And as far as lost visibility goes, well, at daytime it doesn't really matter (it might actually help, by reducing glare or something). At nighttime, we are pretty insensitive to red anyway (rods are not too sensitive to red), so really, it's more like just wearing the green laser laser safety goggle. I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty comfortable flying around (if I knew how, of course) wearing the green laser safety goggle.
Of course
Re:No one is that accurate with a laser pointer (Score:3, Informative)
I'm saddened by the stupidity of these clowns. This is only going to lead to tighter regulations on such devices and ruin it for us genuine fun-loving types.
Re:Obligatory (Score:2, Informative)
When I was a kid, in the boy scouts, we used to play lightsabers with our flashlights. On nights when the fog's rolled in early here in SF, I've seen kids playing lightsabers with the red laser pointers that you gan get for $5 at just about any drug store. I've no doubt that as soon as the green ones get down to about $20 or so, kids are going to be just thrilled that they can be Luke Skywalker now instead of Darth Vader.
WTF are the pigs going to do then? Lock up every kid who plays Star Wars for twenty years of their lives???
Hell... I've been zapped in the face with green lasers before. I used to go out to clubs and raves all the time, and once and a while, the laser guy aims his gear a little low. Yes it's annoying and unpleasant. But you blink, turn away, and get over it. Seeking to harm the laser guy would be just petty, stupid, and priggish. But then, this *is* the police we're talking about here. They really do need to just pull the gigantic stick out of their collective ass.
cya,
john
Re:No one is that accurate with a laser pointer (Score:1, Informative)
Dazzling is enough (Score:4, Informative)
Having had afterimages for several minutes after being exposed to a specular reflection of a 5mW green laser in office-lit conditions (reflected from a whiteboard), I can sympathize.
It doesn't say the power of the beam - you can quite easily pick up green laser pointers on eBay that are advertised as 100mW or more (here in the UK, at least). Also, the copter is likely to be quite low, and you'd only want to try this at night so you could see the dot. The pilot's pupils would be dilated due to the darkness, so I can imagine quite a severe dazzling effect.