Dutch ODF Plan Could Sideline Microsoft

Yeti7226 sends word of a discussion coming up Wednesday in the parliament of The Netherlands that could result in mandated use of Open Document Format at government agencies there. If the plan is enacted, public-sector organizations, as well as the government, would have to transition to using ODF by 2010. Microsoft Netherlands has lobbied hard against the provision. Backers say it doesn't exclude Microsoft, because ODF can be produced out of MS Office via the use of plugins. A funder of the OpenDoc Society invited Microsoft to join that organization, saying: "This plan is not about Microsoft, it's about ensuring the perpetual availability of data without any obstacles."

Well no wonder

[overshoot]

"This plan is not about Microsoft, it's about ensuring the perpetual availability of data without any obstacles."

That's the problem now, isn't it?

Very much about Microsoft

[zooblethorpe]

A funder of the OpenDoc Society invited Microsoft to join that organization, saying: "This plan is not about Microsoft, it's about ensuring the perpetual availability of data without any obstacles."

... which actually makes it very much about Microsoft, since they have purposefully done so much to ensure precisely the opposite. Planned obsolescence and crufty undocumented file formats are perfectly in Microsoft's favor as a means of forcing MS Office users to pay the upgrade tax every few years, regardless of whether the new Office versions include any compelling new functionality, what with older versions suddenly no longer able to read the "same" .doc file format produced by the newer versions. With ODF, we know what we're getting -- and that's what scares the pants of Microsoft.

Cheers,

Comparable Costs?

[calebt3]

Rinsema fears that the current proposal could lead to discrimination against Microsoft products ranging from Office 12 to .Net, even though they offer a proper solution at a cost that is comparable to competing products

Since when is free equal to $130 or whatever MS Office is at now?

Misleading Title on the Article

[pilbender]

The article title talks about getting rid of Microsoft but it's really about doing the right thing to serve the people. The article content has nothing to do with the title. There's no need for a title like this. I hate to see this nonsense. It diverts from what really matters.

Governments *MUST* do this. Public documents are public domain, not Microsoft's (or any other company's) hostage.

We need to continue to have articles posted (even though they get old sometimes) here that push these issues and lay them out for people because they are so important.

Don't you believe it!

[erroneus]

It *IS* all about Microsoft.

I say this jokingly, but also quite seriously. Jokingly because technically, it isn't about Microsoft... it could easily have been about Word Perfect if they were still the dominator in document formats. Truly, it is about perpetual access to data through the used of non-proprietary and fully documented formats. "ODF" isn't here to stay... it might last another 10, maybe 20 years at most before something far superior comes along. But ODF is fully documented and could be translated into whatever the next great format standard will be.

But seriously, it *IS* about Microsoft because Microsoft has lost the trust of their users and customers. They have done this with amazingly consistent and persistent erosion. With every new release, with every security problem, with every denial, with every DRM addition, with every copyright protection service, with every Genuine Advantage(r), with every BSA audit, with every criminal conviction, with every attempt to evade or forestall punishment, with every shameless act for which they have become quite notorious in the IT community... the ignorant public has started to notice what upsets their nerds ever so much. And now they are starting to re-think the way they store their data because at any moment, they want to be able to change their operating platform. They trusted Microsoft for at least the past 10 years with their operating systems, applications and data. Microsoft had their, our and even my personal trust for quite some time. The trust is gone or disappearing and now people are taking action.

And is it really the best way for Microsoft to handle this problem? I mean to lobby and complain? Why not attempt to save their business by changing their course and direction!? What is so bad about change?! Is actual competition too much for Microsoft to handle? Can't they just make a "better product" instead of playing all of these government games?

Perhaps the Microsoft apologists would care to suggest a possible reason why they can just serve the interests of their customers rather than fighting to save their business model? The customer wants ODF. Why shouldn't Microsoft provide that to them?

Good

[wijsneus]

As a dutch web-developer who has to adhere to the Dutch Guidelines for the accessibility and sustainability of government websites [overheid.nl]. I can finally meet the requirement to:

[...] use (open) standards - if available - for structure, meaning, representation, identification, presentation, storage and access. [...]

Which means no more PDF hell. As most PDF-formats have proprietary extensions, or have accessibility issues, currently I can only officially/legally use PDF/A-1a. As you can imagine, this is a royal pain in the back for my customers who have to export all their documents and get the PDF settings juuust right. In the future they can just upload the documents and link to them. (Yaay for us!)

Re:Misleading Title on the Article

[dwandy]

Public documents are public domain, not Microsoft's (or any other company's) hostage.

The problem is that most people believe that MS Word is a public data-exchange format (ie: that if you write something in MS Word that anyone can read it, edit it etc.)

So the fundamental issue is that most people aren't even aware that there is a problem to deal with.

Re:Misleading Title on the Article

[webmaster404]

That though, has changed with Office 2007, most people that I know of are considering a change to a non-MS word processor such as OOo, buying a used copy of 2003 and some that are fed up with Vista running slow on their 3 Gig dual core system, are changing to XP while others are even thinking about Linux as an option. MS ends up profiting when people don't have a choice, in trying to make Office and Vista look "different and new" they have alienated people who are now looking at non MS solutions. MS isn't a big selling point anymore, people think of it as the creator of the BSoD and for Windows most people fail to realize there is a choice, Vista and Office are changing that. Rome only collapsed not because of people conquering it but because of civil unrest, MS is the same, its power is fading quickly and Open-source and Linux are the only logical things to replace it.

Re:Well no wonder

[rucs_hack]

a bigger problem from microsofts point of view is that they made such a fuss about not being able to implement ODF in office, and now they may have to, showing their previous statements to be lies.
(well, perhaps it won't be too hard, after all it happens so often :)

Reliance on plug ins for office ODF compatibility would be crazy, either they implement it on the 'save as' menu, and allow it to be chosen as default, or they get sidelined by users as being too much work when compared to a simple and quick save operation.

Behavioral Psych 101

[overshoot]

Reliance on plug ins for office ODF compatibility would be crazy, either they implement it on the 'save as' menu, and allow it to be chosen as default, or they get sidelined by users as being too much work when compared to a simple and quick save operation.

They tried playing chicken in Mass. and it worked. My bet is that they want use of ODF to be as painful and damn-well-useless as possible so that (in their wet dreams) people stage riots in the streets and halls of Parliament demanding MSOffice.

Re:Bluff?

[Yeti7226]

As one of the authors of the parliament motion that started this policy track back in 2002 and someone who had the oportunity to advise the minister personally I can categorically state that this is not the intention of the plan. It is also not the intention to ban any specific product or any vendor. If certain public institutions wish to use a proprietary word processor that is fine. They just have to store their documents in a neutral format so that others remain free to use the tools of their choosing. This is about the freedom to choose, both for government organizations and citizens who wish to access government documents.

If because of this someone can get a good deal on licenses than that's less cost for the taxpayer so that also a 'good thing'.

Arjen

Re:Well no wonder

[Chuck Chunder]

a bigger problem from microsofts point of view is ..... showing their previous statements to be lies.

I'd be surprised if MS considered that a "bigger problem". It's probably the sort of problem they deal with every day.

Re:Microsoft whining in the press

[grahamd0]

The funniest thing about the whole situation is that if Microsoft just shut up and added ODF support to Office, they could turn around and say, "Buy your Office 2008 licenses! It's got ODF support, you NEED ODF support!".

#1 on the M$ list: vendor lock-in

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't do that in ODF.

That's why MS is shitting their pants.

Look at the crap they pulled trying to get their "standard" approved by ISO.

Re:Misleading Title on the Article

[CastrTroy]

That's quite an accomplishment for Office 2007. I've never seen a version of MS Office that was perfectly backwards compatible with previous versions. I've even had problems with MS Office being incompatible with itself. That is, if you open a document on a different computer with the same version of MS Office, it sometimes has the formatting changed.

Re:Well no wonder

[gweihir]

Obviously. How are they ever going to force people to buy new software, if open standards catch on?
--
Side question: FR-4 is glass-fibre+epoxy PCB material. What is evil about it? Or does FR-4 stand for something else in your .sig?

Re:Well no wonder

[Palestrina]

But you can't implement all of Office's features in OOXML either. Macros, scripts, DRM, etc., are not part of OOXML.

Re:Well no wonder

[unapersson]

Well they were part of the standardisation process so only had to ask for those features to be included. So it's a little cheeky to complain afterwards.

Re:Well no wonder

[h4rm0ny]

Well yes, but you're assuming that just because MS want OOXML approved as a standard, it means they can't keep modifying it as needed.

Nice try

[dbjh]

If you cannot attack his viewpoints you can always attack himself... Nice try.
First, this isn't about bashing Microsoft. Second, don't suggest Microsoft isn't opposing this to keep their profit as high as possible.

Liberal as in conservative

[DrFruit]

At the risk of sliding off into OT territory, some points made about the Dutch political system probably need clarification. The Dutch consider their liberal party VVD to represent a conservative or capitalist point of view and do not view them as left wing or bleeding heart; quite the opposite. Our 'liberals' would likely vote Republican in the States.
Mrs Kroes, the commissioner who made MS bleed, is all the more effective as an antitrust fighter because she knows from past experience how board rooms operate. Apparently, it is possible to be a capitalist and believe that corporations should behave properly.
I agree that our system, imperfect though it may be, seems to at least resemble something like a democracy.