FBI May Have Datamined Grocery Stores With Help From Credit Companies 442
An anonymous reader writes "Recent media reports indicate that in 2005-06, the FBI went trawling through grocery store records in order to track down Iranian terror cells. They hoped to locate 'Middle-Eastern terrorists' through the purchase of specific food items. Many of these items, though, are not sold through big-box supermarket chains, and the majority of mom and pop ethnic markets do not have the detailed computer purchase histories that Safeway or Whole Foods have. What the FBI seems to have done is instead put together a list of everyone who shopped at a Middle Eastern food market. All signs point to the credit card companies providing this data, and not the individual stores. If so, this could be the tip of a (potentially illegal) data-mining iceberg."
Too dependent (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe someone within the FBI/NSA is pushing for technological solutions to do this kind of heavy lifting that used to be done by people. I don't know, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. We're not a meat and potatoes society anymore. People of every stripe are going out of their comfort zones and finding ethnic food really tasty (I am one of those people within the last 7-10 years). Do I get put on a watch list because I go through a month where I'm craving a good gyro and find the best place to get really good gyro is my local halal shop?
Shocking. But now all this food talk has made me hungry. Thanks FBI.
would terrorists really use credit cards? (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Operate cash-only to make your activities harder to track
2. Make sure you are not flashy with the cash, drawing suspicion
3. Shave the beard, drop the turban, live as western as possible
4. Do not flash the cash, keep yourself as average joe as possible
5. Don't use cell phones or be sure to swap out sim cards frequently, seeing as the cops can track the cells
From what I've read, the skilled terrorists really know how to operate under the radar. The covert communication technology of choice, the fax machine. Handwrite messages in Arabic, fax back and forth. The goverment agencies are short on translators. Even if the messages were sent in the clear, it would take them a long time to figure anything out, assuming it was intercepted. If any kind of codes are used, it takes even more time to figure it out.
discount cards (Score:3, Interesting)
I keep thinking it would be fun to offer a randomizing service for discount cards. Get a web site somewhere and have people mail you their discount card with a self-addressed stamped envelope. Pull one out of a box and return that, and drop the one you got into a box. The very paranoid could do this every month or two. Make it very hard to track anyone's purchases.
Of course, then your name might get associated with someone who is buying strange stuff. But if that occurred in another state, it would probably be easy to show it had nothing to do with you. Of course the supermarket chain would be likely to never want to sell anything to you again.
I also wonder how long such a site would be in existence before the stores hired legal hit men to take it down in court.
More completely unsubstantiated BS on /. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Alienation (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Alienation (Score:2, Interesting)
It's an open secret that most Americans going to "teach English" in China are doing so as a cover for proselytizing their religious beliefs (missionary work). China officially prohibits missionaries but tolerates them under that cover.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Because (Score:2, Interesting)
The very first thing we learn in basic scientific research, starting in around 6th grade, is that if your first search turns up no results you don't simply think "Oh, there are no matches" but instead expand the scope of the search.
To think that the FBI/NSA/CIA somehow practices self-restraint in the interest of protecting the privacy of American citizens is more than somewhat naive.
-HiLJ
Re:Because (Score:3, Interesting)
1. The dealer has been selling to some serious bad guys, and when caught, will roll over and give all sorts of descriptions, names and other information on customers like you before he risks informing on the 'really dangerous' sorts.
2. How did you stay in practice with that gun? How many bought the gun itself with cash, but bought ammunition, or rented a range at least once, with a card, check, or other traceable?
3. Did your face get recorded on camera when you bought or trained with anything? That's the essence of data mining - putting faces, names, SSNs and such together with the other data. No one wants any info what-so-ever on a person unless they can link it to a name, a face, a bank balance or an ID number, but a photo is almost as good as a name for most law enforcement purposes.
4. Do you have a military record? Every weapon you have so much as familiarization fired, let alone qualified with, is there, as are range scores. Law enforcement personnel will assume you might still have just about anything you ever had, and judges have issued warrants based solely on an exotic weapon being used in a crime and some person having that weapon on their military record before.
This is also one of the most risky points for a non-gun owner - If you currently have absolutely nothing, but are on record as having ever fired a machine gun or grenade launcher, guess how much force looks reasonable to those cops serving you for something as non-violent as failure to pay child support, let alone a violent felony?
Re:Because (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Because (Score:3, Interesting)
I stand by my assertion that events like 9/11 are completely preventable with the old system, without the use of these kinds of very heavy handed, and very easily abused kinds of mass data collection techniques. Investigators should be required to get the same sorts of warrants that they would need today to invade the privacy of individuals and groups, to actually query these databases.
Basically, we need some real effective checks and balances (at least as effective as we've been able to achieve thus far, previous to databases). So far I haven't seen even an attempt create these checks.
Re:Datamined Grocery Stores (Score:1, Interesting)
Don't laugh I know people in the industry and this has been knocked around for years now.
Re:Because (Score:3, Interesting)
You're concerned about HILLARY? If they're tracking people buying pita bread how much worse can it get? Wake up. Ever buy ammo with a credit card? Shooting glasses? Gun oil? Never in your whole life? Hell, ever buy anything at Gander Mountain or a place like that? If you fit the profile, you might as well tell them. Madison Avenue is watching you far better than big brother could- all they have to do is put database A and B together and large portions of the Bill of Rights go up in smoke, 2nd included
Scared yet? If the government doesn't respect the fourth amendment what does it matter? Why this administration though we all were screaming "please please take the forth amendment just don't let them send any more guys with boxcutters after us" is beyond me. Pretty cowardly really, in more ways than one. They want us to believe we needed to do all this crazy shit to stop terrorist attacks, when the reality was 9/11 was 100% preventable we just SCREWED UP. We learned a hard lesson, but we also _should_ have learned we didn't need to gut the constitution or give up our cherished values to prevent it too.
The terrorists can attack us even if we give up every constitutional protection we have, just like a criminal can still get a gun, but if we don't have the forth, the second doesn't mean shit. So I won't be taking any chances with Rudolph "W" Guiliani, who feels he has to be George++ on national security just so people forget his social views. That man scares me far more than Hillary does.