Belgium May Prosecute the Church of Scientology 755
sheean.nl writes "A Belgian prosecutor recommended after a 10-year investigation that the government prosecute the church of Scientology. The church is accused of being a criminal organization involved in extortion, fraud, unfair trading, violation of privacy laws, and unlawfully practicing medicine. Both the Belgian and the European branches of the church should be brought to court, according to the authorities. The investigation was started in 1997 after former Scientologists complained about intimidation and extortion by the church. Other European countries such as Germany have problems with Scientology, but in the US it is officially recognized as a religion. Scientology has 10 million members including high-profile followers such as Tom Cruise and John Travolta." Scientology has long used heavy-handed legal and other tactics to suppress opposition on the Net.
Re:Beware the intertubes (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Who is next? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why Is This On Slashdot??!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Geeks have long memories.
Plus, add in the "Scientology uses Technology" angle (debatable, at best...outright laughable more realizstically), and yeah, there's some geek.interest.to.be.had.
Re:Why Is This On Slashdot??!!! (Score:1, Informative)
Scientology is the only religion invented by a SciFi writer. Nerds read SciFi. Ergo, news for nerds.
Re:All churches are guilty of that (Score:4, Informative)
Agreed, but in all fairness to the 'regular' religions, they at least welcome you in and then extort you, whereas Scientology extorts the money up front, over a long period of time, before you're allowed full access to the church's teachings.
Re:Who is next? (Score:5, Informative)
Sue the Pope? Good luck with that.
That said, Scientology's accused of: "extortion, fraud, unfair trading, violation of privacy laws, and unlawfully practicing medicine." I'm not sure that you can accuse Roman Catholicism (as a whole, discounting fringe groups that aren't practicing core doctrine) of most of those.
Not officially recognized as a religion (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Well... (Score:5, Informative)
Fucking Scientologists. (Score:5, Informative)
His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc. was placed in the implants.
When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. "They" are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert. The length and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my tech development.
One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is approached as precisely outlined. The "freewheel" (auto-running on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.
In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.
One's body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or to the body.
One has to clean them off by running incident II and Incident I. It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing. You are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some large, some small.
Thetans believed they were one. This is the primary error. Good luck.
Re:Beware the intertubes (Score:3, Informative)
I can only imagine that that statement was referring to that episode. I'd hope so because I laughed out loud when I read that.
Re:Fucking Scientologists. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not officially recognized as a religion (Score:3, Informative)
Many municipalities require "religious" buildings to be zoned residential and have a steeple of some sort (it can be inconspicuous, but there's a minimum height requirement). If these conditions aren't met, then the local government won't give it tax-exempt status. Sure, you can get out of federal taxes as a non-profit, but there's property taxes, sales taxes, and all the other local stuff.
Then there's the states. Some states require each church location to register (similar to the property-tax-exemption requirements of some municipalities) in order to get state tax exemption.
So, yes, the US federal government does not require anything more than a non-profit shell corporation and various associated tax-dancing that goes with them in order for a group to be a "religion", but the states have their own rules, and counties and cities have even more. And they use the term "religion" in the laws.
Re:Who is next? (Score:3, Informative)
To be fair, he wasn't sued in court. He was extradited for trial on some drug charges after a little war. A state of war, originally declared by Panama, existed between the countries. I will certainly grant you that the timing was WAY too convenient, but it wasn't a suit brought against a foreign head of state.
Re:more on Belgian religious intolerance (Score:3, Informative)
They're lunatics. (Score:2, Informative)
1. Check for any BTs (E-meter, theta perceptics, intention, pressure areas, telepathy is HOW) on and in:
1. Body surface (WHERE)
2. Body inside
3. In thetan's space (Approx. 40' X 60')
4. On thetan
2. Run Incident 2, then Incident 1, until BT(s) have gone and are released. Then, check for additional Incidents 1's and 2's until dry (on the meter).
3. Return to Step 2, to find new ones to run. Use ruds while running if necessary. There is an effort to stop and hurry on Incident 1.
4. When complete, exact date and run both of the incidents on self.
5. If a bog, do Millazo Pack. Write down some 'mutual associations'. Re each one on this list, FIND THE INCIDENT THAT MADE THEM ONE, and run that. Then, run OT III, Incident 2 and 1 after that cluster is broken up. Occasionally, BTs will have an incident that made them one other then Incident 2, thus this action.
It just keeps going on like that. I hope they get sued for every penny they're worth.
Re:Who is next? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Who is next? (Score:5, Informative)
Tell that to Manuel Noriega
If you're suggesting that we use military force to depose the Pope and then bring him back to the U.S. to stand trail... well, what you're suggesting is an act of war, just be aware of that.
When it comes to Scientology, however, there's no nation to deal with. They're just a modern, fringe religion. Thus, they have no immunity in a U.S. (nor, I imagine, Belgian) court.
Re:Scientology not a Cult? (Score:5, Informative)
Oh really? If you want to learn what Baptists believe, go into a Baptist church and ask. They'll give you a Bible and as much denomination-specific literature as you care to leave with. You won't have to give your name, although they might ask for it. You won't have to join. You won't have to pay them anything. You won't have to sign a non-disclosure statement. And should you decide that you like it and wish to join that particular church, you're free to leave at any time. In fact, church membership isn't a requirement of their belief system at all (although it's recommended so that you can continue to learn about it and hang out with like-minded people). No one will tell you where to work or where to live or which doctor to go to or who you can be friends with.
And that, to me, is the difference between a religion and a cult. You may completely disagree with what Baptists believe, but they'll tell you the entire story in advance and let you decide for yourself. The same goes for pretty much every other mainstream religion. On the other hand, if a group requires a donation or commitment before they'll even tell you what you're joining, run screaming. There are enough Open Source religions around that there's not much point in joining a proprietary sect.
Re:Great !!! (Score:1, Informative)
Co$ abuses the legal system (Score:2, Informative)
That is not true.
Co$ and IRS fought a battle for years over religious tax exemption. The IRS revoked the exemption with the justification that it was a profit earning business. Every court supported the view of the IRS.
The IRS submitted only after it was blanketed with thousands of petty Co$ lawsuits and it did not have the resources to defend all those lawsuits. The Co$ also infiltrated IRS staff at their offices. This is just one of thousands of examples how Co$ abuses the legal system through deception and half truths. Hubbard encouraged his members to abuse the legal system and to lie.
The agreement between IRS and Co$ remained confidential until it was brought to light via a FOI filing from the WSJ. When it was published there was a lot of outrage over the perks that the IRS granted to Co$ which are not available to other religions.
The Holy Bible is free to anyone who asks for one. Co$ is the only cult who charges their members for access to their "scriptures" which are split into multiple tiers and the charges increase exponentially as you advance through each tier. They pressure their brainwashed members to sell their homes, cash in their retirement accounts, deplete their children's inheritances, and go into crushing debt through credit cards to pay for their "scriptures".
One of the terms of the IRS agreement is that all Co$ course and scripture expenses could be deducted from income taxes. No other organization enjoys this perk and the IRS is forbidden to extend it to anyone else. That's just one of the terms that has raised a lot of outrage over the Co$.
The Co$ extorted the religious tax exemption from the IRS, plain and simple. Once that was in their hands, they waved that tax exemption at other countries hostile to their interests, but they were not easily fooled.
Hubbard filed for the exemption way back in the 50s to shield his quackery from government agencies like the FDA. Hubbard has been well established as a charlatan, a professional liar, and a barrater who has exploited the system at any opportunity.
The official definition of a cult is an organization that rejects Jesus Christ, uses their own "scriptures" as superior to the King James Bible, discourages their members from reading the Bible, and then poses as a religion. The Co$ fits that definition to the tee, and they are also a criminal organization in many peoples' eyes, despite the celebrity attachments. Good to see the Belgium is brave enough to prosecute Co$ as such.
Re:Fucking Scientologists. (Score:5, Informative)
Xenu - Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
OT III Scholarship Page [cmu.edu]
Fishman Affidavit - OT3, summary and comments [spaink.net]
DMCA complaint [chillingeffects.org]
Re:Fucking Scientologists. (Score:5, Informative)
And they've starred in more than one legal case, here's to it starring in another one
Re:Co$ abuses the legal system (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know who made this particular definition "official" but I'd reject any such definition that classifies EVERY non-christian religion as a "cult". Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. ALL meet your #1 criteria; they reject Jesus Christ.
Why is "cult" in quotes? Only because you use it in the vulgar (common) sense. Follow this link [wikipedia.org] for a better understanding.
For future reference: Double-check anything else your church/pastor tells you. SEE Matthew 24:11, 2 Peter 2:1, Isaiah 9:16, 1 John 4:1
Re:Scientology not a Cult? (Score:5, Informative)
While I agree with the gist of what you're saying...
This simply isn't true for many churches. While the church won't send out their legal hounds, I have personally seen many pastors and religious leaders who DO tell their followers such things. Some jobs are against God's will, some friends should be sidelined, since they do not believe. Heck, aren't Jehovah's Witnesses aren't allowed blood transfusions? That's a pretty big "can't see that doctor" to me.
So yes, the difference between cult and religion is that the former wants compensation for belief, while the latter does not. But both can cause believers to do terrible things.
No, the Co$ has some well-established company (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, it is very un-PC to point this out. Watch the replies to this comment for gratuitous attacks.
Scientology is a racket, but they have a ways to go before they catch up to "mainstream" religion.
Re:Reductio ad absurdum (Score:5, Informative)
Does the "religion" make you pay to find their beliefs? Christians/Jews/Muslims: No Scientology: Yes
If you only pay a little bit, are you told a different truth than if you pay a lot? Christians/Jews/Muslims: No Scientology: Yes
Does the religion take you to court if you reveal their beliefs? Christians/Jews/Muslims: No Scientology: Yes
And, for pity's sake, the Jonah/Noah/parting of the sea myths are all thousands of years old, and part of an oral culture that embellishes stories to make them interesting. I seriously doubt that every part of the Iliad (let alone the Odyessy) is factual, but it's still an important part of ancient Greek culture.
Re:Not officially recognized as a religion (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Fucking Scientologists. (Score:2, Informative)
Link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=VIv9SAr-Zrw [youtube.com]
Re:Reductio ad absurdum (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Gonna have a Clam Bake! - NICE LINKS (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Reductio ad absurdum (Score:3, Informative)
There's no secret or conspiracy here, as anyone is welcome to learn ancient Hebrew or Aramaic and read the original scriptures for themselves.
It's likely that it does refer to an animal that is now extinct, the most likely current thinking being that it was a type of wild ox or other animal with two horns.
If you're going to criticize the Bible, IMHO this is a pretty lame way to do it as even a tiny little bit of research will show that your point is unfounded.