NID Admits ATT/Verizon Help With Wiretaps 299
Unlikely_Hero writes "National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell has confirmed in an interview with the El Paso Times that AT&T and Verizon have both been helping the Bush Administration conduct wiretaps. He also claims that only 100 Americans are under surveilance, that it takes 200 hours to assemble a FISA warrant on a telephone number and suggests that companies like AT&T and Verizon that "cooperate" with the Administration should be granted immunity from the lawsuits they currently face regarding the issue."
what do you do about searching without a warrant (Score:5, Interesting)
Um, wha? (Score:5, Interesting)
They might be claiming it takes 200 hours to get that level of evidence but that is very misleading. It took less than 14 hours for the FBI investigators persuing Zacarias Moussaoui to apply for his FISA warrant.
Re:Unless (Score:2, Interesting)
wHY ADMIT? (Score:5, Interesting)
The fundamental problem is that civil liberties are barely permit after-the-fact punishment of criminals. Many get off because their liberties were violated. That's OK, because the criminal justice system doesn't need to convict everyone, it just needs to act as a deterrent.
Using the criminal justice system to prevent wrongdoing [terrorism] is not what it was designed to do. Preventative vs investigative. Airtight vs failure-tolerant. It requires unusual actions and far greater intrusion into liberties (esp privacy). Some [frightened] people are willing to sacrifice others liberties (and perhaps their own). Others are not. A fundamental conflict between different people. Politicians can exploit this and choose whichever side they wish.
Personally, I will not give in to the terrorists. I will not become fearful.
Re:Unless (Score:0, Interesting)
Let's cut to the chase. If you and the government were the same thing, then why does government need guns to control you? You don't need guns to control yourself, do you?
Re:Unless (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Still using that tired, sad old line? (Score:3, Interesting)
Wait, so because potential terrorists know their conversations are monitored, we shouldn't bother monitoring them? that's a pretty weak argument. Yes, terrorists and their funders/enablers etc code their conversations [counterterrorismblog.org], but the codes can be cracked. Conspirators and criminals still need to communicate, and it would hurt, not help, an investigation to not monitor them.
During the second world war, each side knew the other was monitoring the communications of the other. but the communications were valuable to the war efforts, so each side eavesdropped, and eventually broke the codes. Just because the Germans or Japanese knew the Allies were intercepting their communications doesn't mean that intercepting them lost any value.
Re:Unless (Score:4, Interesting)
Fortunately, even we Americans eventually wise-up. Bush is the most hated president in America since I've been alive (early 60's). I don't bother running bushshitlist.org anymore, because even the National Enquirer now publicizes the stupidity of many of this administrations actions. I've found that Americans fall into several groups, and we have very little mobility between them. The 'religious right' is hard-core in the Bush camp, making up 18% of Americans, and the majority of Bush's remaining meager support. Both Democrats and Republicans split about 20% of Americans that I call "glass eaters": smart people who would rather eat glass than criticize a president from their own party. There are also plenty of stupid people in every country, and we Americans are no exception. You gotta love Brittney Spear's support of Bush, for example. You also gotta love the stupidity of the Dixie Chicks attacking Bush. The dumber of us let actors and performers affect our opinions, and we tend to elect them to high offices. Then, there's a minority of Americans who can make up their own minds, and have at one point supported a Republican or a Democrat, based on their performance. This last category is the largest group, but unfortunately the others tend to outvote us.
All that said, America is still the world's greatest country, in my not so humble opinion. We've just got some clean-up work to do.
Re:HEEEELLLLLLL NO! (Score:2, Interesting)
Based on what damages? I'm just curious. If you found out that AT&T helped the NSA listen to your phone calls, would that cause you $1 million in emotional damage or something?
"Dead Americans" is a Lie. (Score:2, Interesting)
Members of the FISA think Bush has done more harm than good [cbsnews.com].
In this case, the "Dead Americans" flag should be thrown in the face of those who support abuse of process. When you abuse the legal system for political and economic advantage [slashdot.org], you debase the system and impede it's function. The further from rule of law you get, the less justice you will see. A corrupt system is an expensive farce.
Re:Unless (Score:3, Interesting)
Ok, but you're begging the question: why are we there AT ALL? Seriously, why bother? Who cares if it's a mess and they want to kill each other?
Oh, right, the oil.