Going to Yosemite? Get Your Passport Ready! 969
rev_media writes to tell us that CNN has a few updates to the Real ID act currently facing legislators. The Real ID acts mandates all states to begin issuing federal IDs to all citizens by 2008. Costs could be as much at $14 billion, but only 40 million are currently allocated. Several states have passed legislation expressly forbidding participation in the program, while others seem to be all for it. The IDs will be required for access to all federal areas including flights, state parks and federal buildings. People in states refusing to comply will need to show passports even for domestic flights.
Re:Papers please! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Vote for Ron Paul 2008 (Score:5, Interesting)
But the wonderful thing about him is that, as a libertarian, he believes that the federal government has no role in deciding these issues. He would leave them up to the states to decide. In favor of women's reproductive rights? Create a petition to get the matter into your state legislature or constitution. Want single payer health care? Pressure your state representatives, or, again, get enough signatures to get it on your state's ballots.
Wow, people might actually start to feel like we have a representational democracy again, instead of a bunch of Washington insiders bought by corporate lobbyists!
Solution: Pick any other country. Move there. (Score:5, Interesting)
I left america and I'm NEVER going back (Score:3, Interesting)
I left America five years ago to live in a European country. Granted, things aren't perfect but I would NEVER fucking go back and live in America again. The country is increasingly deluded, lazy, fearful (Slashdot company excepted), and awash with shit food. Don't even bother to argue - the Stop and Shop has lots of food, but it is mostly crap.
I make roughly $70,000 per year - so I'm a member of the middle class. Why the hell would I leave this Western democracy where my taxes actually generate a tangible benefit for me and my children in the form of healthcare that isn't contingent on my current employer? The food is generally fresher and the markets more diverse, if I pay for primary and secondary education for my kids it is a HELL of a lot better and the university fees are negligible.
The American middle class is getting totally fucked - and has been for years. What the fuck do your tax dollars buy you? What precisely does the current federal government do for the middle classes?
Round and round she goes.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Y'all are missing the real Catch-22 here. How could a passport substitute for Real ID? A passport is a federal document. Once Real ID is in effect, no doubt you will need one to obtain or renew a passport, no? So if you have no Real ID, you can't use your passport instead, because you will need the ID to get or renew the passport. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This battle isn't over yet by far, because in addition to the few states that have explicitly refused to participate, many others are discussing it in their legislatures, and some of those are leaning towards saying "drop dead" to the Feds as well. Sooner or later, we will reach a critical mass of states that represent a significant enough percentage of the U.S. population (and, hence, of voters) that would be classified as second-class citizens, and that will put the kibosh on the whole mess. I just hope those legislatures have some backbone....
You can keep up with the current status of Real ID legislation in the various states at the Real Nightmare [realnightmare.org] website.
Re:Wow (Score:4, Interesting)
Personally, I don't see it as a big deal. I already have a federal ID (passport) and have to show an ID when boarding a plane (state issued DL or passport or military ID). I also used to carry a federal (DOD) ID card. Never once have I thought that having to prove who I say I am as an invasion of my privacy or my rights.
Other than closing loopholes, I'm not sure why they require it to enter a federal park - are we afraid the terrorist will go after the deer and chipmunks?
Re:I fly with no ID all the time. (Score:2, Interesting)
For those that don't know at most airports being a selectee is easier than not being one. You save time by not taking off your shoes(if the airport is equiped).
Re:So ... Basically... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, the founding fathers committed an armed overthrow of the legitimate government. If you were to ask England, they were murderers, terrorists, and they committed treason. Had they not succeeded, they would have been executed as traitors to the crown.
The difference between a traitor and a patriot is often a matter of how successful one was. Fortunately for the United States, the people who started it's government did so because they wanted freedom from an oppressive government, rather than simply freedom to institute their own oppressive government. Unfortunately, there has been a sever slide towards tyranny in recent years.
We could use a few more patriots in this nation, even if it did result in some people dying in a revolution. The safest life is a solitary one in a padded cell, but I certainly wouldn't want to live like that. Besides, if it's acceptable for a soldier to fight (and give his life) to "preserve our way of life", why is it wrong to fight to better our way of life?
Re:Papers please! (Score:4, Interesting)
Change from the USA. i.e. no one looked at me like I had two heads when I paid cash for a domestic plane ticket.
I'd also assume that it was much more restrictive under the Jaruzelski dictatorship in the 80s.
-b.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Tempest in a teapot (Score:3, Interesting)
I will continue to oppose government invasion into the personal sphere -- for example, wiretapping, secret search warrants, and gag orders -- but I think it's time we accept that our public actions -- purchases, travel, employment -- are already public. They are meticulously documented and combed by all sorts of actors, and by and large the world has not collapsed into an Orwellian nightmare. Certainly, there are Orwellian aspects to our society, particularly with the current group in the White House, but that seems like a phenomenon independent from the stuff this Real ID would be used for.
Re:Papers please! (Score:4, Interesting)
I can clearly recall my 4th grade teacher talking about that when she was explaining why America is good and the Soviet Union bad. In the news, point by point, I see today's U.S. becoming the Soviet Union that she taught us was bad.
I also remember the class asking her why the Russians don't just vote for sombody who will fix all of that and her explaining that nobody they could vote for wanted to make it better. That too has a bit of a haunting ring to it today.
Here in Georgia, the state government isn't openly revolting against RealID but isn't exactly endorsing it either. I wonder how the Federal government feels about footing the bills for the international airport itself. I ask since if I'm not allowed to fly, I'll be damned if I'm going to let my state taxes pay for an airport.
Re:Papers for Yosemite?! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:remember when? (Score:4, Interesting)
Then I read your comment.
Short, simple, and elegant. In one movie quote you managed to sum up exactly what's wrong with this program, in a way that appeals even to those who DON'T think that all republicans are "Bushitler ts". Thank you for that.
Re:state tally (Score:2, Interesting)
It's always seemed ironic to me that the poorest voters in the nation support the party that favors the wealthiest.
Individual freedoms? Most red-necker don't want government telling them what to do... Yet when they hear "democrat" they think "limited gun access". For some reason this outweighs every-other freedom and personal rights to privacy that the "Red Party" is eager to trounce over.
-CF
Re:Your papers please. (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't believe it?
I travelled from LAX to SFO last July and just wanted to see if it is possible. I got send over to a special line for "no ID" people and got searched thoroughly but it was still faster than standing in the normal line. This was on Southwest.
Just try it. It will make a point against the real ID.
Note: I am a white male and was decently dressed but had an evil german accent. It would be interesting to hear reports from people with a middle eastern complexion.
Re:Finally ... a measure that's right on the butto (Score:2, Interesting)
It's not surprising Swiss crime rates are low. They are a regimented society that value order among all else. Swiss citizens do not have civil liberties. Crime is usually low in police states.
Re:Tempest in a teapot (Score:2, Interesting)
The big problem is that this, all by itself will be enough id to completely impersonate you. You're footing the cost for a system that will make it easier for others to scam you. People are also ticked that the same government that wants to spy on citizens more and more, who doesn't want citizens to know what it's doing wants to know everything about what they're doing.
While right now, a national database can be made based on a social security number, with each person tracked and other numbers (state driver's license, non dl-id cards issued on a state by state basis) having a single ID makes it easier than ever to commit invasive (and illegal) spying on American citizens. We're offically supposed to be free of unreasonable search and seizure. Until there is good reason to suspect you of a crime, the government shouldn't be searching through your activities.
Another problem is that this id, if built into a "trusted" system can be used to ruin lives of people. The national ID allows the creation of the national database, the "permanent record" every kid used to fear in school. What happens when for some malicious reason, someone with access to this puts something bad in the database about you? Will you be able to get it out? Will you be allowed to look at your own record to see if it's correct? Consider the problem, as more jobs go overseas and work is harder to find, of trying to find a job after some fake crime gets added to your record. The employer won't bother looking into court records, but will pass to look at one of the other 50 people begging for the job. Of course, if the court records are integrated with this database, and easily corrupted, you're really out of luck.
The national ID would be a good thing, in that a single ID would be prerrable to having 50 IDs. Imagine having everything tied to the one card, want to get groceries? Swipe the citizen card and the screen lists your credit card accounts and debit card. Select where you want the pull to come from and walk out. This could be used in place of loyalty cards. You would still pay at Books A Million for a loyalty membership, but why issue a new card when there's already a unique # assigned to you?
Of course, once everything depends on this id, the person who loses it is REALLY in trouble. The market for fake driver's licenses is already high. Imagine the market for card copying, swapping the data in your card to a 2nd with someone else's picture on it for use online. Will you be jailed if you're caught driving without it?
The fears around this ID are:
The # of ways this could be misused outnumber the ways where it would be of actual benefit (massive ID theft, smears)
Given the ID system will not prevent terrorist action, given the 9/11 peoples' papers were in order, and the people proposing it know this, there's clearly an ulterior motive. If those pushing the id refuse to disclose this motive, should they be trusted? Perhaps it is a bid to just make things simpler on corporations, and they're embarassed (or afraid) to admit it openly. Regardless, this is too much money to spend on something about which the purpose of is being lied about.
(Hmm, wasn't Clinton in trouble for lying about something that DIDN'T cost the taxpayers big? Heh, if we started impeaching or getting rid of everyone in government who deliberately lied, how long would it last?)
Re:Wow (Score:1, Interesting)
On the other hand, the President and those in Congress have effectively adopted al Qaeda's actions to promote their agenda. And the Democrats have been no better; most supported the Patriot Act and since taking power they have done nothing to try to change the status quo, either by passing legislation modifying or repealing Patriot Act and REAL ID or by starting the impeachment process against Bush if they really believed he lied to Congress. They've used the image of the collapsing WTC and the threat of further, worse attacks to get the public to submit to accepting this legislation. These guys are effectively allies of al Qaeda; another attack killing thousands would give these politicians the ammunition to go even further down the road of seizing the rights of Americans once and for all.
Given this mindset, it's not much of a stretch at all to call these politicians terrorists. Let's hope that in 2008 we as American citizens can start the process of eradicating terrorism from inside the Capital Beltway.
Re:Wow (Score:3, Interesting)
Closing off the Canadian border... (Score:3, Interesting)
Just to clarify my original point (Score:1, Interesting)
Just to clarify my original post - which perhaps seethed with a bit too much anger.
I was born and raised in America of middle-class parents in a pretty nice rural part of the country and am very proud of where I'm from. I certainly believe in the basic ideals of the country as expressed in my high school civics classes - freedom to live as I choose and pursue whatever it is I want, the sense that government is run by people like you or me and that truly the only limits (within reason) are self-imposed. Work hard, be responsible and fairly clever and your life will be ok.
I really don't understand the modern American attitude toward provision of health care. Well, I understand the historical context for it, but I don't understand the continued tolerance of insurance company abuse of their customers, the rationing of care under HMOs, the insanely high cost of private (non-employer based insurance). This isn't freedom to be, it is indentured servitude to a particular way of life. Want to be self-employed? Sure, but fork out $500 per month in insurance fees. Lose your nice office job, can't get another one with quite such a nice health plan? Fuck you. I've known far too many people with decent insurance plans that get screwed around by their insurance companies - my parents, a friend with a really serious problem with depression, a relative that needed physical therapy for her back, the mother of a girlfriend who is a school teacher and needs a lot of meds for her rheumatoid arthritis. The system is mad and inhumane and unworthy of a modern, wealthy nation. America didn't get wealthy by repeatedly saying "fuck you, work harder, conform" to its people.
When all is said and done, what does American society support that France, Britain or Germany doesn't for a member of the middle class? Nominally lower taxes (but with no health care) ... um ...
And I suppose that's my point - America is a great country with a brilliant set of political ideals, but it certainly isn't exceptional and is failing itself and the world for not living up to its own rhetoric. We're no longer living in the post-war world - for the middle classes living standards are pretty much the same throughout Europe (similar consumer goods, retail cultures, etc) - and those standards are higher than those in America - quality food, quality goods along with the cheap(ish) computer/electrical goods. Sorry, but Americans do NOT live in "the best of all possible worlds" anymore.
Contribute more - and demand more - of your government.
Re:Just so you know (Score:4, Interesting)
In addition, our default sales tax is 21% (yes, you read that correctly). The vast majority of the price of petrol (gasoline) is tax. Oh - and did I mention that retail prices are higher here than in the US too?
You'd think these taxes would pay for lots, but our kids don't have enough classrooms, we don't have enough teachers, nurses or police, an entire city doesn't have clean water, our hospitals are inadequate and A&E patients are left on trolleys in corridors, we're only now getting some decent roads in the country, our public transport is the worst in Europe - people drive more km per person in Ireland than the US. Also, this performance gets a government re-elected for the third time.
Admittedly most people have jobs (~4% unemployment, that includes people who can't work or are between jobs). Still, it feels like we've almost got the social injustices of American-style capitalism with the tax burden of European social democracy.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Interesting)
You're probably right, everyone at or below the poverty level deserves to be there. So it's not useful to feel sorry for them or try to help them get out of the situation.
I'm not arguing that no one is like this, but I'm arguing that there are probably a lot more than you realize. Unfortunately the people that get noticed are the people who abuse the situation, and as a result they make it harder for the other people who are in that situation through misfortune or who only have the natural talents to land a minimum wage job (which is substantially below the poverty level).
Watch In Pursuit of Happyness. Although everything turns out ok in the end, it's not a feel-good movie, and that was not its point. The point of the movie is to show how it is that you can try your absolute hardest and still fail through misfortune and bad decisions (which were only identifiable as bad in hind sight). If there weren't programs to help this guy get out of the situation he was in, he would not have been able to, as it was he had to risk everything he had, small as it was, on a long shot, and he got lucky. This is a true story.
Re:Wow (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Papers please! (Score:2, Interesting)
I propose the following since corporations don't pay taxes, only customers do, Corporations just pass on the added cost of additional taxes to customers, duh. We drop all corporate taxes and tax the shit out of ever citizen.
I know you're being sarcastic, but have you ever noticed that, of the people who say 'corporations don't pay taxes, they just pass them to along to employees and customers, we should stop double and triple taxing everyone', no one ever says, "So, um, why don't we just tax the corporations,and only the corporations, then?"
This solution would seem the most logical of all. No individual has to worry about taxes unless they're running a business, and, hell, people running businesses already have to worry about a lot of paperwork. But normal people wouldn't have to worry about withholding or deductions or any paperwork, and wouldn't have to figure out their income after taxes when job hunting and budget making, it seems like it would be sane to put all the taxes on the entities already doing the paperwork.
I mean, companies shouldn't mind, they 'aren't paying the taxes' to start with. And, yet, they apparently do mind, which suggests there's something slightly wrong with the concept they can and do just pass them on to other people.
OT: A lot safer than dealing crack. (Score:2, Interesting)
While an Army private doesn't get paid hugely well, they don't do horribly either, particularly when you consider that their salary is almost entirely "take-home pay" (they're not paying for food/rent/healthcare). Plus, it's just not that easy to spend money when you're deployed, which is also when you make the most bonus pay (and get some decent tax breaks -- in an unusual show of decency by the government, combat pay is tax free). Although the pay-per-hour isn't great, it's not unusual to come back from deployment with a sizable amount of savings [estripes.com].
Is soldiering as profitable a career as borrowing money to get a business degree and working for a corporation? Not nearly. But it's not as bad as it's sometimes made out to be, if that's what you really want to do. The problem with the military right now is that they've basically tapped out the supply of 'risk junkies' who actually want to do the job, and have started to deploy people who are only in the service because they thought it was an easy way to get a college education (and who had no real interest in being in the military outside of that). IMO, this is why there are far worse morale problems in the Army than in the Marines -- the Marines were always fairly clear in their recruiting what you were signing up to do, and drew people who actually want to do 'crazy Marine shit;' the Army (until recently) was billing itself as a disaster-relief and college scholarship program, leading to accusations of a bait-and-switch.
Get Sued, Can't Respond (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Wow (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.globalrichlist.com/ [globalrichlist.com]
Re:Wow (Score:2, Interesting)
"Sales and fuel taxes are consumption taxes." Great, I guess I'll stop eating, stop putting fuel in the car so I can drive to work, and stop buying clothes.
As for the 9-1-1 tax, that shows up on my phone bill (or at least it did when I had dialtone.) And yes, you can be poor and still have a phone, and a car. And you'll pay the same $100 to renew your registration as someone making orders of magnitude more. Admittedly this may not exactly be a tax, per se, it probably varies from state to state. But the burden is carried proporionately more by those with less wealth.
As others have stated it's a matter of relative terms. In other words, so what if a poor person in America would be rich in some third world country, it's not like they can just move there and presto! become rich. You can't just add up the wealth, you have to look at cost of living, purchasing power, etc. Not to mention they probably wouldn't let you in the country since you'd just take a job from a citizen.
I'm sure you know all this. What I can't understand why you're so combative regarding the simple fact that, when you add it all up, our tax system is regressive.
For example, FICA: If you make over about $75,000 a year you max out your FICA contribution and they stopy deducting it from your payroll. Over $75K , the more you make, the less you pay, percentage-wise, to FICA. That my friend is the very definition of regressive.
Now you can argue all you want the reasons for the cap, and how much should we be taxed in the first place, but no amount of squirming is going to change the fact that the overall tax burden is regressive.
Not that I have any suggestions on how to fix it (aside from eliminiating or heigtening the FICA cap and reintroducting the means test for social security eligibility), but it is in society's best interest to enable the working poor to become the working middle-class, and identifying one of the obstacles, namely, a regressive tax structure, seems like a good place to start.
Eco 101 for the numerically challenged (Score:5, Interesting)
You don't get out much, do you? Check out http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ [westegg.com], and try the US from 1800-1850, and 1850-1900. Looking at the latter case first, what cost $100 US in 1850 cost $100.10 in 1900 - virtual price stability over half a century! In the former case, what cost $100 in 1800 cost less than $49 in 1850. Now read that last sentence over slowly for maximum comprehension - prices actually fell by half in the years 1800-1850.
From 1900-1950, prices roughly tripled. From 1950-2000, prices roughly went up by a factor of 7. So if you're trying to say that recent inflation has been less than it was in, say, the 1970's, I'll agree with you, but your original statement is pure nonsense.
Now maybe you mean cost of living. Yes that has gone up, but not so much do to increase costs, those have been steadily dropping as well in terms of real dollars, but in terms of people's expectations.
Now, this is truly hilarious. What is the substantive difference between "cost of living" and "inflation"? Here's the Statistics Canada definition of cost of living:
A cost-of-living adjustment is used to offset a change (usually a decrease) in the purchasing power of income. Cost-of-living adjustments modify future benefits, typically on an annual basis, to keep pace with inflation. These adjustments are usually linked to changes as measured by an index of movements in prices; the most widely used is the Consumer Price Index (CPI).
I'll be the first to admit that there are many different ways to measure inflation, although the CPI is often the most common. The "GDP deflator" is another popular measure; it is usually very close to the CPI figure.
Now, since you're clearly economically illiterate, let me fill you in a couple of not so widely hidden secrets. 1) Since both the US and Canadian governments are on the hook for huge entitlement programs, such as welfare, pensions, etc., all of which are subject to annual COLA changes, both governments have a vested interest in the keeping that COLA number as low as possible. Now, in 2003-2004, the average US household spent 34% of its net income on housing, 18% on transportation, and 13% on food; that's 65% of total disposable income. Doesn't leave a whole lot for those "wants" you rant on about, especially when you consider that health care and insurance/pensions eat up another 15% of income. (http://www.bls.gov/ro6/fax/cex_hou.htm) However, whenever you see "core CPI", it's usually accompanied by the phrase "not including volatile food and energy components". Meanwhile, housing expenses have been adjusted down to reflect the low rates people are paying on "teaser" mortgages that offered low initial rates, no down payment, no principal repayment, "overmortgaging" (i.e. providing a mortgage worth $130,000 on a $100,000 house - sweet, you've got $30k to buy a new car!), etc. Now, when those mortgages get reset this year and next (you have been reading about the sub-prime crisis, haven't you?), what do you want to bet that "volatile housing costs" will also be excluded from the government stats?
And that's not even discussing the "hedonic" adjustments, where beauraucrats attempt to divine how much recent improvements in processor speeds, lower RAM and disk costs, etc. have lowered the "real" cost of computing resources. (I'll be the first to admit that the 512k RAM, 10MB disk Mac that I bought for $3,000 Cdn in 1985 was far more expensive in real terms than the Dell Pentium4 running at 2.8 Ghz with 512 MB RAM, and an 80 GB hard disk for $800 Cdn paid two years ago.) However, how do you compute the decrease in the cost of living from having 4 blades on your razor instead of 2? From having 4 or 6 airbags in your car instead of 2? In short, the official statistics are giggered to produce a consistently